Mini 1701 - Modified Werewolf 13er

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, outside of Redff, Banakai's ISO isn't all that interesting/informative. I did pick up a couple of things;

I'm not seeing an absta as scum, but tony montana I'd be okay with but I still prefer boon

At this point, Banakai is looking to lynch town. Which means Absta gets some scum points and Tony gets some town points. I feel like Banakai is positioning himself to jump on a Tony wagon if it manages to take off in this post.

I kind of fear that if tony IS lurking scum, that if we don't lynch him today we might not get around to it (until maybe a lylo) because we already have like 4 suspects and only more things are going to come up especially with a doctor and seer in the setup.

Again, town points for Tony.

Going to look into Absta's posting around Banakai now. Followed by Zoro.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

This post makes no sense coming from town and I asked him to post his case anyway to see if he really did make one. Like I said after he posted his case, it looked quite rushed (like he just made it after I asked him to post it).

This quote doesn't make sense considering Banakai just said that Boon played so scummy that he (Banakai) didn't even bother finishing/posting his case on him.

Post #690 is interesting. I don't see why town-Banakai wouldn't just link back to the case he made on Boon earlier. I mean, he told HC that he had already given reasons for why he thought Boon was scum so this new version of the same case just looks like he is trying to make sure he looks town to HC. Not really a strong point, this could easily just be play style or personality but, as town, I definitely wouldn't have posted the same case twice just because someone got mad and told me to.

I feel like Absta has some good points here about Banakai - criticizes Banakai's case against Boon and his vote. Also questions that Banakai didn't know who to vote despite presenting a case on Boon.

In fact, the only thing I don't like about this post is where he tries to excuse Banakai's reposting of his case as possible play-style/personality.

I'm fine with lynching either Boon or Banakai and we only have a few days left to decide. The people on the smaller wagons should migrate at this point.

This doesn't feel like it's coming from scum either - why would he try to narrow down the lynch pool to two people leaving a 50% chance his buddy gets lynched? Surely he just stays quiet about other wagons forming hoping one picks up and presents another alternative to Banakai.

I'm saying there is only 5 days left; if you start splitting up the wagons into 3 instead the two (major ones) there are now, we'll probably end up with a no-lynch or a rushed lynch. If you don't want to vote Boon or Banakai, that's fine, just don't try to pull people off the wagons at this stage.

Same again - he is really pushing to consolidate on Banakai/Boon. I could see this as possibly coming from scum if Boon looked the likelier wagon but I don't believe that was ever the case.

Just vote Boon or banakai. We don't have much time.

Same again.

This is fucked, i'll vote banakai if he gets one more vote. I just think Boon is the best lynch out of the two. Also, like Kmd said, Banakai hasn't claimed, if he is a PR or claims PR as scum, what can we do?
Chances are, Boon is scum; most of the town reads i've seen on him are due to him being "too scummy to be scum", we all know that's a terrible reason to call someone town so just lynch it already.

I don't get the frustration here - this post I could see coming from scum. He almost seems resigned to having to bus here and is preparing to move his vote. He is frustrated that he hasn't managed to make Boon the more popular wagon. I don't know whether he is coaching here either - hinting for Banakai to claim a PR. Yeah, I don't like this post.

VOTE: Banakai
As promised. He is L-2 now I think.

He switches wagons. I think the timing of this vote is important as he votes after I have voted Banakai. I feel my vote was instrumental in leading to Banakai getting lynched as the game-state was becoming stale with 3 potential wagons and not many people looking to switch over. Once I voted Banakai, Absta may have thought it was inevitable that Banakai was getting lynched and wanted to be on the wagon.

Overall, I'm unsure on Absta. There are some posts I could see coming from scum and there are some that I see coming from town. I think I'm leaning more town on him - consolidating the wagons to Boon/Banakai makes no sense coming from Scum!Absta.

[TonyMontana]

(1)
Because returning to the wagon after distancing from it makes very little sense. If my plan was to distance from the wagon, then the logical thought process is that I need to ensure I don't return to it - correct?
…

(2)
You stated I was 'relentlessly' pushing for a wagon on you. This would imply you thought I was pushing hard to create a counter wagon to Banakai, no? What I'm saying is, what is the difference between my early game push on Woody and late game push on you?
…

(3)
4 nulls...are you serious?
…
I like that you went to reread Redff after my post as it shows you're still open minded about other possibilities despite scum reading me.

(1)
By distancing, I mean that you spent some time off the wagon. You didn't really leave the wagon, that's not what I'm accusing you of, but rather that your push for my wagon was an attempt to appear like you were trying to avoid the banakai lynch without making a realistic attempt at avoiding it. I was an easy target, but not a very good one.

(2)
The obvious difference is timing. I think you would have been happy with a wagon on me getting rolling, but you didn't seem to make a genuine attempt at convincing people. You barely made an attempt to convince people that you wanted to convince them.

(3)
Yeah, I'm serious. Would I like to come out and say I got a good feel for everyone's alignment? Sure. But I'm being honest, and it's honestly hard to tell. There's not a big scale on that spectrum, it goes from maybe scum to maybe town. At the moment, you are my best bet but I wouldn't put money it. So yeah, I am looking around, because I'm actually kind of dubious about the possibility that I would pick 2 scum as my top suspects during day 1.

[Keyser Söze]

In post 910, absta101 wrote:

This is fucked

, i'll vote banakai if he gets one more vote. I just think Boon is the best lynch out of the two. Also, like Kmd said,

Banakai hasn't claimed, if he is a PR or claims PR as scum, what can we do?

Chances are, Boon is scum; most of the town reads i've seen on him are due to him being "too scummy to be scum", we all know that's a terrible reason to call someone town so just lynch it already.


I don't get the frustration here - this post I could see coming from scum. He almost seems resigned to having to bus here and is preparing to move his vote. He is frustrated that he hasn't managed to make Boon the more popular wagon.

I don't know whether he is coaching here either - hinting for Banakai to claim a PR

. Yeah, I don't like this post.

Yes, scum is scum - regardless of what scum could do, vote for your scum-reads without hesitation.

Interesting theory on absta101 "coaching" Banakai too - I did not originally see that possibility. Claiming a PR on D1 would have been the best play to make as caught scum (not self-vote).

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Keyser, can I get an updated reads list please?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Also, is anyone scum reading Zoro outside of Banakai interactions?

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser, can I get an updated reads list please?

D1

This is where I am:

I do not want these lynched D1:
Kmd4390
Red Coyote
Doctor Who
Haschel Cedricson
Zoronos
redff

Uncomfortable zone:
Bulbazoor
Boonskiies
BlueBloodedToffee

Uncomfortable zone (D1 lynch candidates):
Banakai
Tony Montana
absta101


I do not think Boonskiies-Banakai or Doctor Who-BlueBloodedToffee is scum-scum.

More of my town-lean reads are on the Banakai wagon. More of my scum-lean reads are on the Boonskiies wagon.

D2

I do not want these lynched D2:
Boonskiies
redff
Red Coyote
Doctor Who
Kmd4390
Bulbazoor

Uncomfortable zone:
Tony Montana
BlueBloodedToffee

Uncomfortable zone (D2 lynch candidates):
absta101
Zoronos


Currently, more of my town-reads are on my two main scum-read wagons:

absta101 (2): Boonskiies, redFF
Zoronos (3): RedCoyote, Kmd4390, Keyser Söze
BlueBloodedToffee (2): Doctor Who, Tony Montana
Kmd4390 (1): Zoronos
Tony Montana (1): absta101
Not Voting (2): Bulbazoor, BlueBloodedToffee

I no longer think absta101-Tony Montana are

both

scum, more likely one town or both town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, can you give me your thoughts on my points that go against Absta being scum then?

Why would scum!Absta narrow down the lynch pool to his buddy and one other person?

Also, what do you think about my post on Redff?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Also, do you have reason for thinking Zoro is scum outside of Banakai interactions?

[Keyser Söze]

Also, is anyone scum reading Zoro outside of Banakai interactions?

Yes - I never saw evidence of Zoronos' "re-read and rethink" of his scum-reads towards the end of D1 on absta101/Bulbazoor Boonskies and redFF.

All I saw was a late vote on TonyMontana (Zoronos had previously said he'd prefer to vote for redFF than TonyMontana) - what were his feelings on absta101/Bulbazoor, Boonskies and redFF?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

And the previous question?

Also, can you explain your scum reads on both myself and Tony?

[Keyser Söze]

OK, can you give me your thoughts on my points that go against Absta being scum then?

Why would scum!Absta narrow down the lynch pool to his buddy and one other person?

Also, what do you think about my post on Redff?

Yes, I hinted at my re-evaluation on absta101's slot in post 1145, after looking at Doctor's Who's post - there are reasons to town-read absta101.

"Also, what do you think about my post on Redff?", "Also, can you explain your scum reads on both myself and Tony?" - I will look at this after lunch.

Note: TonyMontana is no longer a strong scum-read of mine - but he is in my uncomfortable list - I have liked his D2 posts.

[Keyser Söze]

I will be very interested to see where you and Bulbazoor put your votes.

[absta101]

@BBT

@Zoro - What do you think of Boon?

He's probably scum. So is Red.

I'm looking for the third

player at the moment.

Working out if that's Absta or Bulb.

Your vote is on me but you make it sound like i'm not a your strongest scum read.

Outside of interactions with Banakai, this is the only thing I found suspicious about Zoro. He should've been voting for either Boon or Redff according to his scum reads.

[absta101]

@Zoro

He wasn't a focal point of my opinions this game; he wasn't one of my scum reads. I gave him a focused read when I caught up, just as I did the other two leading wagons (hint:

Conclusions are in 810. I thought he was town

)

I don't see you calling Banakai town in post #810. To me it looks like you are saying there is nothing scummy about him (which means null).
You also imply he was a null read here.

(I also didn't make 15 posts without mentioning him. I just counted since you mentioned it. There was a stretch of 12 where I didn't, but I'm pretty sure that's not a scum metric. As it turns out,

I talk about my scum reads much more than my null reads

, and when I have 3 scum reads in an open setup where there are 3 scum, I'm pretty okay with that.)

[Doctor Who]

In post 910, absta101 wrote:

This is fucked

, i'll vote banakai if he gets one more vote. I just think Boon is the best lynch out of the two. Also, like Kmd said,

Banakai hasn't claimed, if he is a PR or claims PR as scum, what can we do?

Chances are, Boon is scum; most of the town reads i've seen on him are due to him being "too scummy to be scum", we all know that's a terrible reason to call someone town so just lynch it already.


I don't get the frustration here - this post I could see coming from scum. He almost seems resigned to having to bus here and is preparing to move his vote. He is frustrated that he hasn't managed to make Boon the more popular wagon.

I don't know whether he is coaching here either - hinting for Banakai to claim a PR

. Yeah, I don't like this post.

Yes, scum is scum - regardless of what scum could do, vote for your scum-reads without hesitation.

Interesting theory on absta101 "coaching" Banakai too - I did not originally see that possibility. Claiming a PR on D1 would have been the best play to make as caught scum (not self-vote).

That's an interesting theory on coaching.

Suppose that BBT and Absta are scum, they just placed L-2 and L-1 votes on their scumbuddy. I could see the self-hammer as a way of saying FU to his team mates.

Fuck this shit VOTE: Banakai

There has to be at least one scum on the lynch wagon besides Banakai, right? The first four votes had been stuck on there like glue so are less likely to be scum (and the first vote is from town).

Wagon 4

Day 1: 7 votes required out of 13 players - Deadline is (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00); updated through post 964
Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)

Banakai

_____________7______

Haschel Cedricson

(502), RedCoyote (649), Bulbazoor (702), Boonskiies (710), BlueBloodedToffee (940), absta101 (941),

Banakai

(964)
absta101____________3______redff (790), Keyser Söze (805), Doctor Who (808)
Boonskiies__________2______Kmd4390 (592), TonyMontana (839)
TonyMontana_________1______Zoronos (850)

[Zoronos]

@Zoro

He wasn't a focal point of my opinions this game; he wasn't one of my scum reads. I gave him a focused read when I caught up, just as I did the other two leading wagons (hint:

Conclusions are in 810. I thought he was town

)

I don't see you calling Banakai town in post #810. To me it looks like you are saying there is nothing scummy about him (which means null).
You also imply he was a null read here.

(I also didn't make 15 posts without mentioning him. I just counted since you mentioned it. There was a stretch of 12 where I didn't, but I'm pretty sure that's not a scum metric. As it turns out,

I talk about my scum reads much more than my null reads

, and when I have 3 scum reads in an open setup where there are 3 scum, I'm pretty okay with that.)

If you can't figure out that I thought he was town in 810, you need to think harder about what gets written.
(If understanding what I mean when I said that I don't find him overtly scummy and don't want to vote him escapes you, check 847 where I explicitly said I thought he and herschel were TvT fighting with conf bias on Herschel's side)

He was null into the 600's, which is when KMD was asking about. KMD was making a big deal about how I had 'ignored him for 15 posts straight'. Those posts happened in the period before 810. So, yes, in those posts, I was talking about my scum reads over my null reads.
Posts have chronology; if you try and read them backwards or pull them out of context, they don't make sense. Yay more misrep.

[Doctor Who]

I suggest everyone re-read Haschel Cedricson as well. In addition to pushing Banakai, he made it clear he had other suspects, one in particular.

By offing Haschel, the WW have also silenced his suspicions.

[absta101]

@BBT

Hold on, you were scum reading me based on the assumption that Boon was town? But you were scum reading him...

I was scum reading you based on thinking that your Boon read was not genuine. My read on Boon is irrelevant.

[TonyMontana]

I suggest everyone re-read Haschel Cedricson as well. In addition to pushing Banakai, he made it clear he had other suspects, one in particular.

By offing Haschel, the WW have also silenced his suspicions.

Care to share more for us who don't have time to go ISO hunting a dead player right now?

I just did a quick check to see if he mentioned you at all, which he of course did not.

[absta101]

Alright, I think this game has been solved. Scum is in Tony/Redff/Zoro.

Like kmd says, you either believe Zoro genuinely misread/ignored(?) banakai or you think he was avoiding his scum buddy. I'm not convinced on the Zoro-scum atm, his answers to my biggest concerns were good.

[absta101]

@Doctor

I suggest everyone re-read Haschel Cedricson as well. In addition to pushing Banakai, he made it clear he had other suspects, one in particular.

By offing Haschel, the WW have also silenced his suspicions.

You mean BBT right? I don't know about that, it's seems like WIFOM.

There's an obvious reason to kill HC, he was confirmed town after the Banakai flip.

[absta101]

@Zoro

- Can you explain what your thought process was in the quotes I provided in post #1163.

[Zoronos]

@Zoro - Can you explain what your thought process was in the quotes I provided in post #1163.

I'm not sure what the point of this question is, since those posts had like one line each in them. I thought RedFF and Boon were scum. I was unsure on you or Bulb for scum three, so I was talking to you just prior to that post?

[absta101]

My question is, why were you voting me even though you had RedFF and Boon as scum and me as UNSURE.