Inorganic Chemistry [GAME OVER, SCUM WIN]

[T S O]

Hello, gm!

[Nachomamma8]

good morning can you pull the trigger on the Constantine replacement?

[Nachomamma8]

I'm also really not liking the ika-Tere interactions. (Tere = Nacho, too.)

Ika's early game was town. Ika-scum has a tendency to buddy up to people he likes as scum a lot + Tere was pretty universally townread so she wasn't a possible mislynch for the scum team.

[Nachomamma8]

And this looks really bad for Nacho.

Disagreeing with a bad case on scum isn't a scum tell.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho hasn't really done anything wrong, but PoE does seem to suggest Nacho-scum over many others.

Not over vezok!

[Nachomamma8]

This is a valid point against Nacho. (Also a point for vezok being town.)

How, exactly?

[Nachomamma8]

(Nacho's mudslinging on the conftown is really, really bad.)

Determining whether confirmed town is actually confirmed town or not is actually pretty important.

[goodmorning]

I'll see what I can do.

[Wickedestjr]

Thanks for stepping in, goodmorning!

[Jaqen Hghar]

Is Constantine/Mastin your guess right now?

Sure

Jaqen, what's your opinion on a vezok lynch?

A man is thinking it's not the best lynch, but it could be worse

[Lying Cat]

Is Constantine/Mastin your guess right now?

lol

[mastin2]

Currently feel good about the mastin slot overall, but I'm extremely suspicious.

I am deliberately keeping my vote from anything to ensure mastin has time to read through and share her thoughts, even if they are scum thoughts.

Would Scum!mastin accept the "doctor" crumbing to her, and suggest that her team not kill him until he can "confirm" her as town?

FUCK no. If I was scum, LC would have been my first nightkill, guaranteed. On policy alone! Even without a roleclaim, on D1, LC was the only player here that I as scum would have thought so much as remotely threatening--simply because they have the game experience with me. Every other player has either negligible and/or terrible (read: Titus) experience reading me, thus, would be, frankly, not worth touching. Sure, yeah, later days introduced players who know me like Nacho and TSO, but on D1? Just LC.

On that note, the scum this game clearly were PR-hunting with their nightkills (at least the first three of Bins, ZX, and Flubber), which goes against my scumplay philosophy. I can point to endless number of scumgames of mine where I kill purely off of the threat of the player--in Attack on Titan, ActionDan was my N1 nightkill because he has good accuracy reading me. In Anything Goes, pirate mollie was who we ended up nightkilling and she has a near-perfect accuracy reading me. In Left4Dead, AngryPidgeon was our N1 nightkill and

he

has perfect accuracy reading me, too. In Paranoia, I killed zMuffin the first night I was in the game, because he has perfect accuracy in reading me as well. And in this game, here LC has been, when LC has an admittedly good track record with my slot, and was left alone.

As scum, my nightkill philosophy is basically, "fuck PRs, we're killing players who're threats", and I don't even bother with role hunting.

That being said

, if there was any INKLING of a suspicion of LC being a role (yet alone a doctor!), damn fucking straight I'd kill them deader than I was already planning on.

Soyeah. Not scum. Very much not scum. Pretty much the only way I could be scum is if LC was

also

scum.

It wouldn't surprise me at all actually. I think she can be pretty tricky...

Yes, I can be, but part of being a scum mastermind is knowing the difference between being tricky and being a fucking moron.

Leaving LC alive all game is being a fucking moron.

Even ignoring the investigation: I remember Fluminator, Constantine's predecessor, looking really townish.

Yep.

^.

Really the biggest piece of evidence (that I can remember) making me doubt Nacho-scum is the fact that Tere replaced out. If she was scum, she was playing really well and I struggle to imagine her quitting just because of MS...

Actually, as part of my reread, I did a check of her posting on-site. While she recently returned, there was a rather notable gap in her posting. (Check her posting out yourself to see it.) That was more recent than her replace-out, but that such a large gap exists is a strong indicator that her replace-out was null, not alignment-indicative one way or another.

You know what? I've been town reading you all game, because I seriously doubted that you would behave this way as scum. But this is starting to get really ridiculous and hard to believe...

Yep.

[mastin2]

Is Constantine/Mastin your guess right now?

lol

^.

This is a valid point against Nacho. (Also a point for vezok being town.)

How, exactly?

Vezok raised a good point against Tere: Tere showed some signs of opportunism by being on basically every wagon.

Determining whether confirmed town is actually confirmed town or not is actually pretty important.

Yeah, but there's a difference between looking for confirmation of conftownness and intentionally casting doubt on it.

You've done the latter, especially given that Constantine was in your suspect list.

[Jaqen Hghar]

Unless LC is scum with you and you're presenting scumtheatre.

[Jaqen Hghar]

Pretty sure neither of you would have NKed each other in that scenario.

[Jaqen Hghar]

And since you're so uber boss at this game and scum has there numbers halved- why exactly are you still alive?

[mastin2]

[Jaqen] is a pretty good scumhunter, I recognize, caught 3 scum out of 5 in xeno 1? 2? Idr which was acknowledged.

(Yet his reads have notably not been good at all this game. 0 for, what? 6? Something like that. He has yet to be right once.)

hiplop - 6 (vezokpiraka, Tere, ZZZX, Flubbernugget, Cerberus v666, Sonic Boom)

I absolutely refuse to believe this wagon is all-town.

Every name there except vezok and Tere/Nacho has flipped town, so at least one of them is going to be scum. Butyeah. No way is it an all-town wagon.

Btw, Tere's stances progressively make Nacho-PV look increasingly unlikely. Also, vezok's posting is looking more and more town to me as I progress.

That one is claiming to have a vote and that she is using it on hiplop. A man is having one of those as well.

Even back here, Jaqen was casting doubt on PRs.

(Sidenote, but a quick iso of Mac and ika will show you both held negative stances on me, more or less. Which pretty much is reason for me to be town, especially given how I dictate my scumteams play.)

/55.

[mastin2]

And since you're so uber boss at this game and scum has there numbers halved- why exactly are you still alive?

Better targets.

Scum were PR-hunting, and more specifically, quite obviously for the cop inventor. Bins was the only claimed PR D1. ZX died N2, and Flubber died N3. N4 there's too many existing conftown from the cops, so by necessity Sonic Boom dies. Simply put, scum haven't killed either of us because scum have had higher-priority nightkills.

Doesn't change that LC and I are both town.

[mastin2]

Also, given that the only scum I've caught is ika, my read accuracy hasn't been stellar. Ika's the obligatory I-was-right-on-one-scumread-read, and from there, it's basically just me getting lucky if I name scum.

This being lategame, though, I think I can do it. I generally am a much, much stronger lategame player than earlygame player, at least traditionally with games like Drawn on Arrival and that one bork mini I replaced into.

Frankly, I don't really see how scum can win this game, so long as we don't let them lynch a conftown player.

[mastin2]

I kind of feel if Bins has a useful and proveable day action, she should consider claiming before the zone of lolquickhammer, because I am really torn atm between her and hiplop.

Oh.

This.

...This...

This pretty much alone would make me want to vote Nacho.

I'm not sure how to describe it if you don't already have an idea of what I'm talking about, but basically, this is scum, who is okay with either lynch, because both lynches are on town. That fence-sitty attitude, and overall stance, while trying to seem genuine is just...very, very much not. I lack the words to express it, but I'm pretty dang sure Nacho's scum right now.

Bins - 4 (Lying Cat, mastin2, Jaqen Hghar, Wickedestjr)
hiplop - 6 (vezokpiraka, ZZZX, Flubbernugget, Cerberus v666, Shakira Confirmed, Sonic Boom)

^Literally the only thing that'd make me doubt Nacho being scum is that unless it's Nacho-vezok, the hiplop wagon would be all-town. Yet worth noting is that Tere (Nacho)

was

on the wagon and was considering rejoining it--as quoted above, really. It's very, very possible that one of the reasons Tere didn't is

because

it was an all-town wagon on town and Tere didn't want to 'taint' it with her presence, if that makes sense.

OK, so Bins, I realised you could also prove your claim by actually doing this. Your counterwagon is like the worst possible choice, though. But you should pick someone who you townread who will survive the day, if you really are the town PR you are crumbing here.

This is bad, too--Tere is trying to have the best of both worlds, here, simultaneously scumreading/voting yet coaching-as-if-town Bins. (It also makes a lot of sense that a scumteam with Tere would kill Bins.)

/66.

[mastin2]

Also jaqen is either very fail town or scum.

(There's only so many times you can get away with being 'fail town' before you realize the player in question is, in fact, actually scum.)

Yeah, I don't mind a hiplop vote either. It felt like he was crumbing a bomb or something late in the day, which after claiming VT earlier is just eesh.

Vote hiplop

Vezok you might want to fix your vote tags?

This is bad, too.

Increasingly convinced it's Nacho-Jaqen.

VOTE: tere
this is tere's scumplay. that wagon hop was horrible and opportunistic

^Definitely seeing this.

BTW Cerb's L-1 was only just over 3 hours before end of Day and I think ika is working nights ATM so he may well have not seen it.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p6964136

This defense of ika was bad, too.

hiplop - 5 (Tere, vezokpiraka, Sonic Boom, ZZZX, Flubbernugget)

Again, this wagon cannot be all-town.

A man isn't caring who have who what. A man IS pointing out a basic principal of mafia though- if someone is neighborized, and the one who did the neighborizing is meeting Death that same night, LYNCH THE FUCK OUT OF THE REMAINING NEIGHBOR BECAUSE SOMETHING LIKELY CAME UP IN THE NEIGHBOHOOD WHICH MADE THE CAUSED THE NEIGHBORIZOR TO MEET THEIR DEMISE.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Sonic
For Bins. Boom!

I'm not quite sure how to vocalize how this reads as being scum. Like, the last bit just felt fake, and the first bit felt like opportunism? That's the best way I can think to describe it. It's just...very very much not town.

im pretty sure you're wrong on zx and i'm definitely sure that you're wrong on me so thats 3/3 wrong
that's usually a scumtell for someone proclaimed as a "good scumhunter" dont'cha agree?

^Truth.

thats right folks, excessive stupidity is a scumtell

This, too.

Jaqen is not an idiot.

Jaqen's posting this game which has basically been mudslinging every single conftown we've had the whole damn game from Bins to Sonic to Constantine, is him faking being an idiot.

IOW, if it is coming down to it a man will have no reserve in lynching LC, but there is remaining much an more time and a man is thinking following decades worth of mafia theory is stronger than, say, "I have a feeling Lying Cat is lying".

This is another name he's wrong on, too.

Because the commute inventor couldn't possibly be scum? Stupid.

^Like, this wasn't even directed at a specific player, but it continues the trend.

/77.

I really don't see myself voting anyone other than Nacho or Jaqen at this stage. They really, really, REALLY look like the scumteam to me.

[mastin2]

In fact,
VOTE: Nachomamma8.
Yes, vote tag instead of bold.

I could continue reading, but I really don't think I'm going to find anything that will change my conclusion. I'll probably find little things here and there that throw it into doubt, yes, because no scumteam callout's going to be perfect. Yet I don't see anything but my read growing stronger happening. Those things that may throw it into doubt would be vastly outweighed by the things reaffirming my call, including things like my ever-growing vezok townread. The more of the game I'm reading, the more convinced I am that he is town. And the more I'm seeing, the most Nacho's slot looks like scum and the more Jaqen looks like scum.

So I've made my choice.

[Jaqen Hghar]

And since you're so uber boss at this game and scum has there numbers halved- why exactly are you still alive?

Better targets.

Scum were PR-hunting, and more specifically, quite obviously for the cop inventor. Bins was the only claimed PR D1. ZX died N2, and Flubber died N3. N4 there's too many existing conftown from the cops, so by necessity Sonic Boom dies. Simply put, scum haven't killed either of us because scum have had higher-priority nightkills.

Doesn't change that LC and I are both town.

sonic? flub?? ZZZX?!?? REALLY?!?

[Jaqen Hghar]

And yep. 0/6. Didn't hammer either of the scum. A man is total shit at this...

[mastin2]

sonic? flub?? ZZZX?!?? REALLY?!?

Yes. Because Flub was the cop inventor, ZX they probably suspected was the cop inventor, and Sonic was confirmed town thanks to the cop inventor.

I was, very quite transparently, not the cop inventor. So if the scum were hunting the cop inventor, which they almost certainly were by the nightkills, then they had no reason to touch me. (Especially not if they thought I was going to be harmless, not at all an unreasonable conclusion to make.)

And yep. 0/6. Didn't hammer either of the scum.

Bluntly, your hammers mean absolutely nothing. It's your content on the slots

prior

to the hammers which are important. And there's notably not much about ika, nor much calling of Aristophanes being scum.

In fact, I just isoed you. No mention of ika pretty much at all as far as I can tell save for the lolhammer which was frankly the obvious move to do. And the only time as far as I can tell that you ever mention Aristophanes?

This is a man's full list of suspicion, from greatest to least
Lying Cat
Sonic Boom
T S O
Kari
Aristophanes
Cerberus v666
Mastin2
Nachomamma8

...Aristophanes is present only as the FIFTH name. Behind Kari/PV (the alternative lynch candidate), TSO (town), Sonic Boom (town), and Lying Cat (also town).

Oh, and there Nacho is at the bottom with ika out of the list altogether.

The hammer on Aristophanes gives nothing because it was expected. The hammer on ika even moreso. Ika was clearly going down. Aristophanes was obviously going down. Frankly you'd have to be stupid

not

to have bussed.

So no, you don't get any towncred, WHATSOEVER, for hammering reads you otherwise showed zero suspicion for. Quite the opposite in fact.