↑ mastin2 wrote:Hey, everyone. This time, let's NOT lynch me. Because I swear to you, I'm organic,
just like last time!
What role was I last time?
The protective-inventor. The doctor-inventor, who got lynched D1.
My very first fucking post was me 'crumbing my role.
↑ mastin2 wrote:(No, but seriously, lynching me D1 is a bad idea. It really would be fitting for the game, sure, but objectively it'd be godawful.)
Further cemented here.
↑ mastin2 wrote: I am, and I say: stop taking the bus; cars rule.
With this being so contrived and convoluted, you really shouldn't be surprised.
Another reference reinforcing the idea of, "Hey, this game's a repeat of last one: I'm the protective invent".
↑ mastin2 wrote: ↑ Lying Cat wrote:Jingle's sick and I'm going on vacation, so we'll get to this in a bit.
Have a nice trip! Hope your travels are productive.
Okay, this one was more subtle, but still obvious.
↑ mastin2 wrote: ↑ Lying Cat wrote:HAHA, I'm not dead! I'm gonna spend what time I can today reading the thread, but I'm working and it's Comiccon two blocks away, so I'll probably be busy.
I imagine traffic's a...
killer
.
This one was pretty blatant, too.
↑ mastin2 wrote:Actually I'd say my investment is
slightly
greater than norm. Mostly because we don't want to repeat history.
Repeat history = lynch your fucking doctor D1.
↑ mastin2 wrote: ↑ Lying Cat wrote:Jingle. sthar's still in Mexico or wherever.
Lazy bastard's taking a vacation in the middle of our game.
(<3 sthar.)
I know this was meant as one, too, though in hindsight, I guess I can see why it doesn't look that way.
↑ mastin2 wrote:Good
god
, this game really
gonna be a repeat of the first.
Wouldn't surprise me at all to find interest in lynching me, maybe even a wagon right now, because I've been posting elsewhere on the site but procrastinating here a bit because it's too much of a workload to tackle in a single sitting and I'd prefer to get it done in one and all that. But I really do swear, I'm going to get caught up in the game. Not right now, but
maybe
later today (don't get your hopes up; family night is a shot in the dark: sometimes I can, sometimes I can't), and yes it will get done.
I did mention I'm V/LA (I should officially banner it) for good reason. College stuff and whatnot, less time to work. Should be done come Wednesday, but until then my hands are pretty tied.
Guess what happened the first game?
I, as the town protective inventor, fell behind.
Seriously behind.
People got suspicious of me.
I got lynched.
↑ mastin2 wrote: ↑ Lying Cat wrote:Mastin, Jingle says you're town. Is he being dumb?
Nope! I'm just hoping that
I'm
not being dumb in trusting
you
to be town.
^Was committed to sending LC the commute N1.
↑ mastin2 wrote: Take care, and be safe.
As solidified here, where I was saying that they'd be safe.
↑ mastin2 wrote:If I started rambling about, I dunno, traffic I had in my commute in a single post or a series of posts right next to one another that stop right then and there, probably fluff. I start ranting about road conditions in several posts strewn across a wide timeframe, probably not irrelevant.)
*cough*
↑ mastin2 wrote:I mean, if I was a protective-type role, I'd give my protection out to a large townread like, say, LC, rather than on someone under heavy suspicion. The mafia kill them, fine, they don't, also fine.
This is literally me fucking claiming to be the commute-inventor given that's exactly what happened.
↑ mastin2 wrote: ↑ Lying Cat wrote:Under no circumstances do we want the commute inventor to claim.
Precisely, because--being unable to self-target--they're not exactly going to be a Bulletproof Doctor.
Titus really should have caught this one and frankly, I was partially suspicious of her because she DIDN'T. Guess who claimed
exactly this role
in Team Mafia? Yep. Me. Being/referencing a BP/Doctor is actually kinda sorta a schtick of mine.
↑ mastin2 wrote: ↑ Sonic Boom wrote:We just get the commute each night, and check whoever.
Yeah, the commute-inventor would have to be a real idiot to give YOU the commute.
Well, duh, of course I was laughing at Sonic Boom asking for the commute when it was ME they were going after.
↑ mastin2 wrote:Small question, though. If an inventor gets the weak cop invention and fears their target is scum, do they deviate from the chain or risk their life?
My oh my, whatever could have sparked this question coming from me?
↑ mastin2 wrote: ↑ Cerberus v666 wrote:LC, why didn't the commute inventor gift bins, since bins claimed a day power which wouldn't be affected by commuting, and hhad a decent chance of being the first nk? Can you think of town motivations?
Dozens of motivations in fact, but listing so much as one would be anti-town.
Because listing the main reason--that the commute inventor was behind and simply didn't see Bins claim--would reveal the only player who COULD be the commute inventor: me.
If we get universal agreement that the recipient of the cop do so, short of the recipient being an inventor (because in my opinion, if an inventor gets the weak cop investigation, it'd be a bad idea to investigate near-certain scum), then yes I can agree with this.
Of course I as an inventor raise a concern about an inventor receiving the weak commute and using it on scum.
(Btw, checked my inbox. My original D2 target was LC again. I don't remember my
exact
mindset, but I think it had to do with them being my top townread, and being worried they'd get nightkilled. Incidentally, I checked my inbox and I originally gave my commute to Sonic Boom D4, before changing it to be Shakira Confirmed.)
↑ mastin2 wrote:Hey, LC. Know how you and I have kinda been buddy-buddy so far in the game? How you've been the most obvtown, threatening-to-scum-in-all-likelihood player?
Sorry. You just got demoted.
↑ Nachomamma8 wrote:town who has no real intentions of reading the game.
TSO, who should I vote?
Here, let me give you the steps to the game.
- Know you are town.
- Know that we have already figured out you are town.
- Know I am town.
^This is the moment I switched the commute from LC to Nacho.
↑ mastin2 wrote:I've said that explaining why I am
town
would be anti-town.
Because, duh, the reason I'm town is because I'm the commute-inventor.
Also from that post,
If I had any power short of vig, including the weak cop, my target would be Nacho, because NACHO.
Making it abundantly clear I'm targeting Nacho with the commute.
↑ mastin2 wrote:That'd allow the commute inventor free range of movement to continue protecting players likely to be nightkilled, rather than being locked on one player.
I had a vested interest in saying this.
↑ mastin2 wrote: Btw, just sayin', I sincerely doubt the aforementioned invention would be the commute, so with the weak cop claimed, Shakira's the only confirmed town player to know what the third invention is. (There would be two total if the inventor is themselves town, but if the inventor is scum, then Shakira is the only one that's claimed what it is so I'm basically making an assumption here that Shakira's the only town player to have received it.) That doesn't elevate them in importance READS-wise (because frankly if they were a threat reads-wise they'd be dead under the pretext of killing conftown. No offense, Shakira, but you know it's true), but it puts them on a VERY high pedestal importance-wise in having an influence as far as I'm concerned. So they're now a one-two punch of (1) conftown, and (2) town who knows the third invention.
^This is the post where I changed my target from Sonic Boom to Shakira Confirmed.
↑ mastin2 wrote:If SC claims to have gotten the commute, then innocent from Cerb be damned, I'd power-lynch them. Not a chance in hell the commuter gave the commute to Sonic Boom, the. freakin. target. of the cop investigation.
↑ mastin2 wrote:I would not believe SC claiming to receive the commute, even though that would require an SC/SB/Cerb scumteam.
This was me basically giving a heavy hint that *I* was the commute inventor, because no duh, I knew that Nacho was the one to get the commute.
↑ mastin2 wrote:Now, the commute.
Frankly, the commuter is obvtown, giving to players likely to be nightkilled. LC was the target D1, and the target for D2 would probably be someone like, say, Nacho. They're going to be using it as a doc protect, so no, not scum.
OH, HEY, GUESS WHAT KNOWLEDGE WASN'T PUBLIC AT THE TIME YET WHICH I HAD GIVEN HERE!
From that same post,
I feel like a scum inventor is likely.
It's possible. Really depends, though. If we have any town power outside the inventors aside from Bins, it's a near-certainty. If all we have are Bins + the inventors, then frankly we need all three inventors to have anything resembling a chance against the scum.
I think the recipient of the commute should claim it every day, but I'm not positive that there's anything good for town in doing that.
Since the commute power is known, I don't think it's as important as the third invention in regards to claiming. The third power, unless SC tells us differently, could be from scum. The commute, rather obviously, is not.
More commute-specific talk, which of course I'm involved in.
↑ mastin2 wrote: ↑ Shakira Confirmed wrote:2. If Lying Cat is scum and you are town there is not a chance in hell he'd kill you.
No, if Lying Cat were scum, I am the ONLY player he would nightkill N2.
I'm still here, ergo, LC is town.
Also, thanks to the commute inventor.
VOTE: Shakira Confirmed.
Here, in addition to the variation on "LC scum would nightkill me" (see below), there's me believing that SC was claiming the commute, something I knew to be impossible.
↑ mastin2 wrote: ↑ Sonic Boom wrote:VOTE: Mastina
I can do this. Sonic needs to see Mastina's scum.
I repeat: good luck with that.
What, you honestly think I'm arrogant enough to think I can't be lynched when there's no strings attached? I had good fucking REASON to be confident I would never be lynched.
↑ mastin2 wrote: ↑ Sonic Boom wrote:You make a lot of leaps and conclusions here.
Nope, not really!
This referencing how me BEING the commute inventor, making conclusions about the commute inventor is not at all a leap.
↑ mastin2 wrote:I don't care what results there are on you.
You claim to get the commute invent, then you'll lose a 1v1 against me.
Because, duh, I am the commute inventor and gave it to NACHO, and Nacho+me > SC.
↑ mastin2 wrote:Shakira Confirmed:
↑ mastin2 wrote:Let's get this very clear.
Did you, or did you not, receive a commute, on N1?
Did you, or did you not, receive a commute, on N2?
I don't care whether it's
Fluminator
or
Marquis
.
Clear answer. Now.
^It was very clear what I was doing there.
↑ mastin2 wrote: ↑ Shakira Confirmed wrote:i don't know if he was trying to pull a gambit or something but we didn't get a commute
Okay then. Proceed as normal.
i'm fairly sure the commute inventor is scum though setupwise and choice-of-target-wise tho lol
Because a town having no protective power is totally a good idea, and the commuter giving it out to likely nightkill targets is totally a scum-motivated move.
After they took the comment back, I dropped the push, and when they said that the commute-inventor was scum, I went to this bit.
↑ mastin2 wrote: ↑ Shakira Confirmed wrote:but not impossible, or even unlikely with a
weak cop INVENTION
around
Weak cop inventor INCREASES the need for the commuter to be town, not DECREASES. If the commute inventor wasn't town, then (1) the results from the weak cop would be borderline useless, nullifying THE ENTIRETY OF THE TOWN'S POWER, and (2) without a breaking strategy being made (which Antihero, I imagine, would try his hardest to prevent), it would be fully possible for the town to lose a BUNCH of town players to unclaimed investigations. As in, a bunch of players investigate scum, without claiming their target in advance, because they don't KNOW about the power in advance, and die as a result, in addition to the scum nightkill. That didn't happen this game, but it was something that COULD have happened and it's ridiculous to think that Anti wouldn't be aware of it.
↑ Shakira Confirmed wrote:1) and yet not actual nightkill targets so this is kind of fallacious by the odds
There are dozens of reasons why the commute inventor wouldn't gift to Bins, and you'd have to be INSANE to think that the commute inventor would EVER have gifted to ZZZX. So not stopping the nightkills is entirely reasonable. Give it time; sooner or later, the commute inventor is going to get it right.
The commute inventor is town.
↑ mastin2 wrote: (1) so much utility that IT'D OVERPOWER THE SCUM, (2) they wouldn't target town (and yet LC claimed it D2) as to remain anonymous, (3) and would take as many steps as needed to make sure the power was secretive, (4) SPECIFICALLY TO MESS WITH INVESTIGATIONS LIKE THE WEAK COP. Flaunting it out by giving it to likely nightkill targets? Again. Not scum.
↑ mastin2 wrote: ↑ Shakira Confirmed wrote:Also, the game would be pretty broken if both the commuter and cop are town.
The game would be broken if the commuter was scum, as has been discussed. Seriously. This is a 17-player game with four scum. That is scumsided by itself; town needs some serious power to counter it, and giving the town the weak cop and the commute is the perfect way to get that, because they both have a built-in double-edged sword: the commuter can't be investigated, and the weak cop if getting a guilty will die, reducing the number of town players at a potentially-rapid rate, especially since the weak cop won't know to announce who they're targeting in advance because they won't know they're going to receive it.
Maybe the scum have a power role like rolecop or roleblocker, but frankly they don't need one. Towns need roles to win games, especially in scum-heavy games. Anti's smart enough to know this.
I had DARN good reason to be ticked; this was a proxy-attack against me, so I made a not-at-all-subtle defense of myself.
↑ mastin2 wrote: ↑ T S O wrote:I'm fairly sure mastin knows what she's doing here. LC might too, but I feel a lot better about mastin than I do about LC, to be honest.
I'm pretty sure I know what I'm doing, too, but I'm not infallible.
That being said
, still insisting LC's town. Again, I'd be dead otherwise.
^Me commenting on my choice in protections.
↑ mastin2 wrote:13v4 games generally are going to be incredibly scumsided unless you beef the town up with some serious power. Weak cop + commute are perfect for that, giving defensive and investigative powers which feature a double-sworded edge.
Work from the world you know, the world as it is, not the world as you imagine it is.
The world as I know is that the commuter is giving the commute to probable nightkill targets, and thus is town.
↑ mastin2 wrote:I accurately pointed out no sane doctor (which the commute inventor serves as) would EVER have protected ZZZX (one nightkill), and there are DOZENS of reasons why the commute inventor wouldn't have protected Bins (among them being: not townreading her, not seeing her claim, not thinking she would be nightkilled, thinking someone else--Lying Cat--was far better a target, etc.), the other nightkill. We have a sample size of two. In short, just because the commute-inventor hasn't stopped a nightkill yet doesn't mean they won't. Sure, doc saves in games are pretty dang rare thanks to sheer probability and the doctor not being in the know, but if the doc lives long enough, then it's BOUND to happen sooner or later.
^More on the setup, defending myself by proxy.
↑ mastin2 wrote:I just know that in my limited experience with you, you proved unwilling to reevaluate given new information, and that's what I'm warning against.
And the new information is that the commuter is even more town than before.
^Pretty much the same here.
↑ mastin2 wrote:Don't have much choice; this is an obligation of mine. (It's not just here, either, btw, but this game's the place it's most pertinent.)
I need to fix it. I'll figure out a way. Kinda have to.
Homework assignment: read my posts in other games at the time.
They used a standard message. In those other games, it was the same basic thing in each game.
...EXCEPT for this game. This game, I specifically modified my prod-dodge posting to be different from the ones I made elsewhere. Why? Because, at the time, I had not submitted a commute invent, and I really needed to. My posting was meant to convey as much.
↑ mastin2 wrote:It would be a Very Bad Idea (TM) for you to lynch someone before I get caught up in the game, m'kay? Because I'm still working on yesterday. I know the flip. I know nothing else. I haven't done anything for this game, which means my options are to do things blindly or to get caught up and I would vastly prefer the 'get caught up' option. So, uh...please wait for me just a little bit longer?
Translation: I haven't sent a commute in, yet, so it'd be a bad idea to lynch someone before I get caught up and submit one. My options would be to submit a commute in blindly, or catch up. Please wait so I can make an informed decision.
↑ mastin2 wrote:(I'm really turning into a repeat of the first game, only worse. I'll fix it, I just can't fix it RIGHT NOW.)
Again, referencing Organic Chemistry. Where I was the protective inventor.
↑ mastin2 wrote:Who the hell was townreading Flubber? Flubb was up for being mislynched, on multiple days. Commute inventor can't have predicted that. Who in their right minds would ever protect ZX? Nobody. There are many, MANY reasons Bins wouldn't be protected, from not seeing the claim to not believing it to not thinking scum would kill her.
The commute inventor hasn't stopped a kill yet...but given the very, very pro-town choices the commute inventor has been making, to protect players of value to the town that were likely to die, you can be assured that they are doing their damnedest to try.
↑ mastin2 wrote: ↑ Wickedestjr wrote:But if the commute inventor was scum, and they knew that scum wanted to nightkill Bins, what is the disadvantage of giving the commute to Lying Cat? They know that the commute isn't going to prevent their nightkilll! They look good by giving the commute to a townish slot.
As has been previously discussed? Outting the existence of the commute invent. Using it on town rather than on scum to hide from the other inventors. Confirming players as town who claim the commute in a town manner and manage to use it effectively. Basically, it'd turn a SUPER-POWERFUL SCUM WEAPON into something that can only benefit the town. All for the sake of towncred they're likely not to actually get?
No. Just no.
The commute inventor is town.
^Further self-defense about my role. The latter quote also contains some rather nice descriptors of my mindset as a commuter.
↑ mastin2 wrote:The first priority of an inventor should be in figuring out who to submit their invention to, long-before the day is anywhere near completion, making the order unnecessary. (Though this is assuming, of course, the inventors actually are around in the early stages of the day phase. If they're absent and basically just prod-dodging, goes without saying that there's a risk they may not have submitted something yet because they're waiting until they can get good info. This particularly applies to the commute inventor, whose job it is to predict the next nightkill, thus, necessitating them being caught up in the thread. The action can always be changed, of course, but there's the matter of blindly sending it to someone who might not be trustworthy, and the day ending before they have the chance to figure that out. Pretty much the only players that the commute inventor can safely avoid that on are the conftown players, but that's assuming that they haven't already been protected when that is a probability, since giving it to the same conftown twice or arguably even to conftown twice might not be effective because scum are expecting it meaning that the shot is wasted.
...The tl;dr of all the above? Basically, it's essential for the commute inventor to be caught up. They need to submit an action, as informed as possible, and the more time that is given for that, the better. Not sure I'm describing that adequately enough.)
It can't get much more blatant than this.
And that's just the first page of my iso.
There's more, too, like all my various declarations of, "If LC were scum, I'd be dead right now" because it was obvious LC knew I was the commuter, and why would they leave me alive as scum was my thought. (I honestly don't have an answer to that--which is is literally the only fucking thing which gives me any semblance of a doubt on them. Yet my mind's flooded with dozens of answers, among them being that since I was so painfully transparent with who my targets were, I simply wasn't a threat; I was an asset, helping them with my targets and reads.)
