Newbie 1633: The Daily Show-A Retrospective - GAME OVER

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 3.2

shaddowez

(1): BlueBloodedToffee

Gratuitous

(1): Lowercase

Not Voting

(3): shaddowez, YurikoJasmine, Gratuitous

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.


Deadline: September 5, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2015-09-05 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

[YurikoJasmine]

Prodoge. Just got back and unpacking. Skimming impression shows unflavourable results towards shadow and LC, but not voting until I actually sit down and read.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

LC, I would appreciate your vote being moved onto Shaddow.

[Lowercase]

Ok, that's L-1, then.
VOTE: shaddowez

[Gratuitous]

LC

- Do you think BBT is just having a hard time reading this game, or do you think his reads have been intentionally bad?

I'm not actually looking for a BBT lynch.

@Shaddowez: I'm a little bit curious how in two posts you go from asking that question (implying BBT's read are intentionally bad, which would indicate thinking he's scum) to saying you aren't looking for a BBT lynch. Do you think BBT is scum or not? If not, please make a case for someone you think is.

On day 1 you voted Yuri over dwlee(scum), and in 294 sound like you still believe Yuri to be scum. Then, for D2 you vote Draynth(town), not Yuri.

I also think this question targeted at Grat is bad. It's like he's trying to agree with me by talking about Grat's Yuriko read, but missing the point.

Concurred.

With Shaddowez at L-1 (as per Lowercase vote post), I am announcing intention to hammer

[shaddowez]

@Shaddowez: I'm a little bit curious how in two posts you go from asking that question (implying BBT's read are intentionally bad, which would indicate thinking he's scum) to saying you aren't looking for a BBT lynch. Do you think BBT is scum or not? If not, please make a case for someone you think is.

I wasn't implying anything in 490. That question was directly related to what I quoted from LC's 489. While I did have a slight scum read on BBT earlier in the game, I quickly changed my mind after reading his follow up post.

As for who I think is scum, I'm down to Grat or LC, both of whom are in interesting voting position right now. I'm going to go with VCA first, then cases to decide where I want to put my vote.

I've been fairly vocal about a Grat vote for a good portion of the game, and LC has been as well. If BBT were scum, it would have made sense for him to join the Grat wagon and get off an easy lynch toDay, and then push for my lynch tomorrow since he'd already mentioned thinking I may be scum. Since he decided to go after me instead, I'm fairly certain BBT is town.

LC switched votes to put me at L-1, which puts him firmly in the middle of the wagon. It gives him the ability to not have to hammer town, and he still only needs to convince one other person (Grat or Yuri) to vote me, putting tomorrow into LYLO. Since BBT was the swing vote and Grat won't vote for himself, that makes mine the easier wagon.

Grat has announced intent to hammer, which would normally involve a claim. Since this is an open setup and both town PRs have already been killed, that leaves only VT, which is impossible to prove. Additionally, since as I said before Grat has been one of my scumreads for a while, so he's not going to change his mind about voting me to vote for himself. This gives him the excuse of continuing with the hammer (assuming BBT or LC don't change their minds beforehand), even if I make a case against him.

As for the actual cases:

LC

- See 273 for my read up to that point. His next few posts are arguing semantics with BBT, and while he seems to be implying that BBT isn't doing anything (326), he never really goes back to BBT. In 371 he mentions a grat lynch again, as if he's testing the waters to move the wagon before having to hammer. He tunnels Grat D2 and D3, He then decides to switch to me when BBT asks instead of pushing for the Grat lynch that he's been pushing the entire game.

Grat

- Around 440 is my most recent argument for Grat. I actually like 486, and 497 actually answers something that hadn't been clear to me - it finally explains that he changes his view of Yuri after the lee flip.

All in all I'm still torn, but in review it actually looks like LC is more likely to be scum from where I sit.
VOTE: LC

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm good with Grat hammering.

[YurikoJasmine]

i second the intention to hammer after reading shadow's iso.

458 plus 492 and 490 are soo bad. 458 is testing the water for bbt lynch and while not supported, totally switched to no i'm not looking for a lynch. 490 is leading lc to say bad things towards bbt that lc was not saying in his original post.

shadow, how is it that you suddenly find lc scummier than grat and why do you expect grat would want a claim from you while obviously it's meaningless to claim at this moment?

[Gratuitous]

Nothing further to add for me, here's the hammer

VOTE: Shaddowez

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 3.3

shaddowez

(3): BlueBloodedToffee, Lowercase, Gratuitous

No Lynch

(1): shaddowez

Not Voting

(1): YurikoJasmine

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.


Deadline: September 5, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2015-09-05 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

A lynch has been achieved

- [/area]

[fferyllt]

Shaddowez was a

Vanilla Townie

.

Night 2 begins now and will end August 29 at Noon US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2015-08-29 09:00:00)

[fferyllt]

BlueBloodedToffee died last night. He was a

Vanilla Townie

.

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 4.1

Day 4 Begins!

Not Voting

(3): Lowercase, Gratuitous, YurikoJasmine

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.


Deadline: September 13, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2015-09-12 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

[Gratuitous]

Ok guys, we are in LYLO, so don't throw around votes unless you are willing to live or die with them.

@Yuriko: What are you're thoughts on where we stand atm. You really haven't taken control of the game despite your near conf!town status.

To me the BBT NK leaves 2 potential scenario's:

1) Lowercase is scum, killed BBT b/c he didn't expect to win a final 3 with BBT & myself or BBT & Yuriko, and will vote me, and hope he can convince Yuriko to go with it.

2) Yuriko is scum. Killed BBT with the expectation that Lowercase and I will vote each other, and she can hammer the game whenever someone drops a vote.

I'm leaning towards 1, since 2 seems unlikely given Day 1, but if it's 2 I'm going to be all kinds of pissed.

Lowercase & Yuriko, thoughts?

[YurikoJasmine]

Not a surprising NK at all. Gotta read again, but probably not happening until tomorrow. Both you and LC are scummy from what I recall, but since only one of you is scum I'll try running a scenario analysis by the time I actually sit down and re-read.

[YurikoJasmine]

@grat: why would you expect LC to vote you if he is scum? That would basically make him conf!scum since no one would hammer? Or you think Im more likely to vote you against him?

[Lowercase]

I agree, Lowercase would never vote Grat as scum.

VOTE: Grat

Seriously, though, I'm not about to find a reason to think that Yuriko is more likely scum than Grat, so I'd be kidding myself if I waited to vote.

I'd appreciate if Yuriko posted literally anything other than a vote at the earliest opportunity, since I would like her to be official conf-town before I bother with trying to convince her of anything.

[Gratuitous]

@Yuriko, like he actually did. LC has been trying to mislynch me since Day 1 for flimsy reasoning. It's incredibly unlikely that he was going to come out and vote you after all.

[Gratuitous]

It's pretty bad how hard LC flipped on Shaddowez as well in retro-spect, he sheeps Shaddowez read on me in #442, than on D3 allows BBT to get him off his push on me, without much effort. Frankly LC, if you thought your #491 represented a stronger case than what you had on me from the entire game, well that says a lot about how bad you're case on me is.

[Gratuitous]

Furthermore, you go from shooting down speculation about the NK in #401, to using to aid your case in #491.

VOTE: Lowercase

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 4.2

Lowercase

(1): Gratuitous

Gratuitous

(1): Lowercase

Not Voting

(1): YurikoJasmine

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.


Deadline: September 13, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2015-09-12 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

[Lowercase]

It's pretty bad how hard LC flipped on Shaddowez as well in retro-spect, he sheeps Shaddowez read on me in #442, than on D3 allows BBT to get him off his push on me, without much effort.

...

Furthermore, you go from shooting down speculation about the NK in #401, to using to aid your case in #491.

I had Shaddow as a lesser scum read since end of day 1. I had you as a primary scum-read before that, so saying I sheeped Shaddow on day 2 is such bullshit you couldn't possibly actually think that.

Second paragraph is a blatant misrep. In 401, I said that nightkills are rarely used to frame someone, which had been suggested as the reason Dier died. In 491 I was not at all suggesting someone had been framed, but that Dier was an obvious NK from Shaddow's perspective. Analyzing nightkills is absolutely a reasonable thing to do, but hypothesizing frame-jobs is conspiracy theory talk.

But ok, I was waiting for Yuriko to conf-town herself here, but I can start a little early.

[Lowercase]

Here's a fun question for you Grat. I've mentioned that despite having 2 scum-reads on Day one, you were unwilling to join the wagon on Dwlee, instead scum-reading Yuriko long after everyone else (aside from dwlee) had dropped off her wagon. Let's suppose you just hate to compromise though.

How do you justify this:
[quote="In post 438, Gratuitous]Given Dwlee's flip, I've been working mostly by POE:

Gratutious
Yuriko
BBT, Lowercase,
Mathilda
Draynth, Shaddowez

I'd be willing to lynch from Mathilda down today, but would prefer to lynch on of the bottom two.[/quote]
The key point here is that on day one you were pretty inflexible about the Yuriko wagon despite claiming something like 50% certainty, but on day 2 you had a list of three people you were willing to lynch (all of them now flipped town, naturally). How do you justify that when there were fewer scum on day 2, you were willing to lynch more people.

[Lowercase]

Damn, I screwed up the quote.

[Lowercase]

But since you mention sheeping, I guess we can talk about that. Just about the only time you showed backbone and stayed off a major wagon was when Dwlee was being run up day one. Every other lynch wagon and the Yuriko wagon had you on it. So when you say I'm scum, you're accusing me not only of bussing, but also consciously staying off town wagons in the hopes that town would mislynch for me.

The fact is that by play, I'm obviously town. The only reason we're having this conversation right now is because BBT got his day 2 reads from a Ouija board.

Which brings me to an interesting thought experiment, suppose the Draynth lynch didn't happen. I wasn't about to get on the wagon and the hammer was accidental, so this isn't a far-fetched scenario. Where would hypothetical scum!lowercase be? BBT basically pushed through the day 2 and 3 wagons with his powers of shepherding, so why would scum-me want to discourage his wagon when his proposed alternative was me?