Prozac's Basic Theme 4 - Murder in Marlowe - OVER!

[scotmany12]

Bins:

i'm on the wagon because of both gut and the fact davsto hasn't done anything

gut because i don't like the way he's reacting

So do you have a problem with why other people are voting for him then? Calling the entire wagon weak, then backtracking and saying you just meant you were voting for him based on gut, is perplexing me.

Plz respond

[Flameaxe]

what
the
fuck?!

I don't know bins WHAT

seriously what

Pedit @mollie im not. That's stating a point. Your stupid quarrels in day one were worthless and distracting. So what?

[catboi]

I'm going over

Bins

's reads list in 1994 because I promised I would and don't want to forget, will get to more recent stuff later but want to do this first.

Despite Day 1, Flame's vote of SC (123) doesn't feel like a bus.

agree with most of the stuff on Flameaxe, am solid on him being town myself, but I'm curious as to why you think this?

Would like to see an of reck's reads aligning with your own, also. I know I haven't read him yet but the read on him is rather vague so I'd like to see more said here.

Fairly strongly disagree with the scot read, don't think the interactions there are clearing of him and in fact lead to the opposite conclusion. I know I rambled a

lot

in my read post but I was just sort of trying to get down my mostly unedited thoughts on him, it wasn't really intended as a persuasive post. Think a lot of what went on between him and SC/Matt reads as plausible distancing. Also, reaction to CDB's voting him really did not look good at all.


I like the rest of Bins's reads list. That's vague but she had similar thoughts on ckd and starbuck as I did, agree with the CDB read, suspicion of Zito well-founded, and the way she looked at Davsto seems to be coming from a town perspective of trying to analyze him, not just pushing to lynch him because he's over his head. She can be town. Need to get her off the Davsto vote, though.

[pirate mollie]

what
the
fuck?!

I don't know bins WHAT

seriously what

Pedit @mollie im not. That's stating a point. Your stupid quarrels in day one were worthless and distracting. So what?

I am more than willing to accept criticism to my play.

so i wanted sc lynch pretty early! and then pple argued with me about why they did not think he was scum. I got distracted. but he was scum!

why is this now a thing?

[Papa Zito]

Yes you sure did quote some things there.

I was hoping you'd be smart enough to discern what I was getting at there, but I guess not.


Well, or maybe you did but you're trying to act like it doesn't matter. I don't know.

so what's your plan to untangle this labryinthine condundrum

(hint: I just used some big words)

[catboi]

Is there an explanation as to why you questioned Bins about being on a wagon with people she scumread but had no concerns about doing something like that yourself?

[catboi]

Have absolutely no desire to get into a wall war with scot and I despise quote stripes, think people usually tend to just ignore or skim them so I'm just going to reply in in a block that is hopefully independently readable. I'm not going to address everything because I want to try not to dilute things with points that aren't that important.

re: 2132

I don't really find it notable StrangerCoug omitted a handful of people from his wagon in saying he needed to look at some people - he wasn't actively pushing back against the people he named, which has me thinking it was more likely a poor attempt by him to distance, rather than trying to put suspicion on townies. I didn't mention it at the time when I quoted the posts because I had yet to reread scotmany and felt like I should have a complete befoe I post it, rather than just throwing out vague half-formed suspicion. If I'm going to make an accusation, I don't want to half-ass it.

despite what scot says, think him not responding to SC's 161 amounts to him ignoring it - if the response was unsatisfactory, why not say so? Why not use it to push against him? Instead he does nothing with it.

I don't really see where AJ makes a post that implies he knows SC's alignment. He also did comment on the wagon, in 377, saying it just looked like mollie was pushing it and there wasn't much else to it. Now this obviously is something scum could say about a wagon on their partner, but the thing is

I remember being skeptical of the SCoug wagon myself at the time

.

When I talk about the response to MattP being "calm" in 702/823, I mean that attitude/tone doesn't look like how a player addresses someone they were/are scumreading. It's very neutral. Him pointing to his other interactions feels like misdirection here, way he talked to AJ/Davsto, there was

pressure

and there's none here. I think the way he just gave Matt a sort of blow-off response to his push on Flameaxe is

highly

likely to come from a scum partner.

I've seen town get frustrated/defeatist when there's a wagon on them and they feel dying is inevitable, it's a really common reaction but people pick on it because they mistakenly think someone refusing to cooperate and being emotional makes them scum. I'm also sure as hell it's something scum

love to

push on, because I've done it myself - when someone gets worked up, it affects the quality of their posting and causes people to pile on. That's what I see happening here and I'm fairly sure scum are trying to take advantage of it. Will try to dig for examples of town reacting like Davsto is to pressure.

Because I didn't think myk is scum? And I still don't. And it's almost like I still found the Matt slot suspicious like I did in the beginning of the day.

The tone of this line

sucks

, and I still have no understanding

why

scot finds mykonian town - looks more like he's picking out a town player at random to defend than anything.

And absolutely think scot/zito ignoring a vote from Davsto, a player they consider scummy, on a wagon you're on, is incredibly suspect given that realistically if you suspect someone, you're going to pay attention to what they do - I don't see a plausible town motivation for ignoring your scumread. You see some people like spiffeh reacting to when his scumread jumps a wagon with a bad vote. I think a town player that sees their scumread jumping the same wagon as them, they call their vote out, or maybe they read it and agree with it, or say it's not enough to dissuade them, but

what excuse is there for ignoring your scumread like this?

I don't think I've seen a town player do something like that ever, to my recollection.

[catboi]

Right, recent examples of a town player getting overemotional/frustrated when wagoned and being unhelpful are elusive in Pula mafia. I was scum that game. I didn't get her lynched, but I knew I could get her worked up, and tried to press on that to get a mislynch. Another example is Yopok in Newbie 1651 - I pressed on him for changing his reads, he got frustrated and it resulted in people voting him, he gave an emotional response saying stuff like "I have no idea what to do" "nothing I try works" and claiming VT. Got lynched anyway, because people in newbie games can't tell when someone isn't being genuine.


Now, Davsto isn't really a newbie, but the fact is, his response here is incredibly similar to that, and it's far far far more likely to come from town than scum. It's very, very hard to fake that sort of emotional response and have it look real, and it's an enormous risk anyway, because people are very often stubborn and don't want to change their minds, don't want to unvote because of emotional appeals and in their mind it's a safe lynch anyway. It's a response only a very experienced player is likely to fake, and Davsto is not that, meaning I don't think he'd have the confidence to attempt a play like that, nor would he have any reason to suspect it would work - people are going to lynch a VT claim more often than not.

So, uh, if the people I think are town could unvote Davsto, that would be grrrrrrreat

[Papa Zito]

Is there an explanation as to why you questioned Bins about being on a wagon with people she scumread but had no concerns about doing something like that yourself?

Do you consider myself and Bins to be the same player? Or to even have similar playstyles?

[Bins]

Bins:

i'm on the wagon because of both gut and the fact davsto hasn't done anything

gut because i don't like the way he's reacting

So do you have a problem with why other people are voting for him then? Calling the entire wagon weak, then backtracking and saying you just meant you were voting for him based on gut, is perplexing me.

Plz respond

god how much i regret word choice
no i'm fine with people voting on gut / the fact davsto hasn't done anything

there were some votes i gave pause too

[Bins]

oops wrong too

[Bins]

agree with most of the stuff on Flameaxe, am solid on him being town myself, but I'm curious as to why you think this?

uhhh not looking back in detail i think it had to do with the fact the spiffeh wagon was also growing at the same time

[catboi]

Is there an explanation as to why you questioned Bins about being on a wagon with people she scumread but had no concerns about doing something like that yourself?

Do you consider myself and Bins to be the same player? Or to even have similar playstyles?

That's totally irrelevant to what I'm asking. I'm wondering why you questioned a player about behavior you later exhibited yourself. Did you think it was suspicious she was on a wagon with people she scumread?


Why ar you being evasive? This isn't complicated

[catboi]

@Bins

if I could direct your attention to 2307 - you're one of the people I'm townreading on that wagon and I really think it's unlikely to be a scum lynch. Would really prefer the lynch be someone else today.

[Papa Zito]

I'm wondering why you questioned a player about behavior you later exhibited yourself.

Do you, as town, ever exhibit behaviors not seen in other townies? Do other townies ever exhibit behaviors that you yourself do not? Or do you think all townies act the same way?

[catboi]

Answer the full post. You're trying to get me riled up and I'm not going to let it happen.

[Davsto]

the fact davsto hasn't done anything

[mykonian]

Ok, dove into a series of CKD's games, I still don't like his style, but it looks like he's town this game.

[mykonian]

ok, I don't know about nexus still. Didn't help me all that much. He's aware of his posting, but I don't see from which allignment it comes.


It is starbuck though. She's scum. The issue is explaining this to you. It's mostly her interaction with mollie, she's searching for it, but is mostly debating for the audience that is us. Now this I had somewhat seen before (towards the end of that interaction), but the start is just as interesting.


Cute post is this:

Too late. Mollie's entire case on SC is based on meta.

in isolation already not great, knowing SC's flip even worse.

Otherwise Post 510, 828 are for example showing what I mean with her interaction with mollie. She's not as much interested in mollie herself, as well as making sure the interaction is seen favorably to the rest of the town. Also something else I see, probably should look at a couple of other starbuck games.

[mykonian]

vote: starbuck

maybe I'm tunneling but I only see signs confirming that read in her previous games.

[Flameaxe]

"Yeah I'm convinced of that"-no one

[mykonian]

that's not my place in this game anyway. But you are invited to have a look yourself.

[Flameaxe]

Its exactly your place as town, try again.

[mykonian]

you are reading a different game from me.

[scotmany12]

V/LA for most of the weekend into Monday

Will try to be around a little bit but got a lot of stuff I need to do