[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[The Fire Hermit]

Actually they are not completely the same. The nature of the death is different and that could be speculated upon in various ways, especially in no flip games.

[pisskop]

How do I get an open grid-thingy looked at?

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Town

Motivator (1)
1-shot JOAT inventor (1)
0-shot backup JOAT inventor (1)
Vanilla Town (4)

Mafia

Proteus (1)
Goon (2)

- Each JOAT ability (roleblocker, doctor, cop, vig, and tracker) has a 20% chance of being given out as an invention
- Since there was confusion, I should also clarify that the motivator can fill a 0-shot invention to make it a 1-shot invention, although it expires after use
- Proteus gives out utility role modifiers for the next day/night cycle (voteless, hated, drunk, compulsive, delayed, weak, macho, beloved, and ninja)

Fixed it a little to make it more versatile. Also think it is a learning game for newbies since it deals with 5 of the really common roles and a lot of the modifiers seen in games, without being overly complex.

[BBmolla]

Fixed it a little to make it more versatile.

Also think it is a learning game for newbies since it deals with 5 of the really common roles and a lot of the modifiers seen in games

, without being overly complex.

yeah no lol

I don't really understand, why is there a 0-shot backup JOAT inventor, isn't that just a named townie.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I don't really understand, why is there a 0-shot backup JOAT inventor, isn't that just a named townie.

I thought it was self explanatory, but I guess not.

The motivator makes a 0-shot JOAT invention into a 1-shot JOAT invention. I'll clarify that.

[pisskop]

So here? Coo.

Spoiler: screenshot of excel

In Case you want to look at the Doc.

And possible setups are:

Spoiler: .

Not 100% happy with it, but I was hoping somebody could help tweak a few bits.

Here's the unstated exceptions rn:
-If only 1 WW is drawn it becomes an SK.
-An SK can choose 1 of <1s BP>, <Ninja>, <Strongman>
-I tried to keep roles limited.

[BNL]

Is Town Citizen VT?
Also is (4,7) Town Weak Bodyguard?
And one Werewolf is SK, but with what powers?
Is Central Werewolf a follower?

[pisskop]

-Yes, Citizen is another name for VT
-Town weak bodyguard is a role that protects from 1 kill attempt, but dies if they do and also dies if the protect scum. so they're like hiders in that they canfind scum but die, and die if their target gets hit.
-Ive answered this. They choose between Ninja, Strongarm, and 1shot BP
-No.

But If 2 WWs are drawn, their powers mimic the Mafia Team.

[BBmolla]

Setup 2 is super townsided
Like compare Setup 6 to Setup 2

Edit: That's for the original.

Setup 1 and Setup 7 seem townsided as fuck in the next variant.
Weak Bodygaurd = Second Cop. That's where your main balance issues come into play.

[pisskop]

My opinion is that the wifom from a town weak BG dying is often too much to use. I get it though.

[BBmolla]

I'd argue that if a Weak Bodygaurd doesn't make it blatant who they protect they're game throwing lol

[BBmolla]

Oh I see what you're saying and I didn't even consider that, the bg can die from bg

I take back what I said.

Best move as bg is probably to aim for scum imo

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I don't want to be pushy, but can I get some feedback on my set-up. It has almost been two days since I proposed it, and I haven't really got any serious feedback? I think it is really high quality, perhaps it is even the best set-up I have created in my years of mafia.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I got to be honest pisskop, I cannot understand the excel sheet unless you give the rows and columns labels. I am just stupid like that.

[Bicephalous Bob]

A joat inventor is just an inventor, right? Also, an X-shot inventor is a role that can hand out X (usually 1-shot) inventions, not hand out unlimited X-shot inventions. I'd call the real inventor an inventor and come up with an original rome for the backup.

[pisskop]

Okay. I think Ive got it ironed out to a playable state. Who/How do make testings?
Document

[BBmolla]

I don't want to be pushy, but can I get some feedback on my set-up. It has almost been two days since I proposed it, and I haven't really got any serious feedback? I think it is really high quality, perhaps it is even the best set-up I have created in my years of mafia.

It's pointlessly swingy in my opinion, I tend to not bother looking at setups like that.

Big issue is also player size. With 10 players, 3 scum is way too much. Either increase the players or decrease the scum.

I'd prefer something more like this:

Hermit's Paradise

13 Players

2 Mafia Goons
1 Mafia Proteus

1 Inventor
1 Backup Inventor
8 VTs

[/color]

• Inventor can give out the following each once per game: 1-shot Cop, 1-shot Doc, 1-shot Vig, 1-shot Roleblock, 1-shot Tracker.
  
• If Inventor gives out all abilities, his inventory is restocked.
  
• Proteus can give out the following each once per game: Voteless, Hated, Drunk, Compulsive, Delayed, Weak, Macho, Beloved, and Ninja

[ika]

weak is prob more town utility then neg utility cus i mean you give and invention persons confimred town.

[BBmolla]

Voteless is debateably broke as fuck.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

@BBmolla
Okay, so my thoughts on your improvements. I think you need to leave in the rule that the role modifiers only work for one day/night cycle like I originally had. Otherwise mafia is incredibly overpowered. So for example, voteless and beloved only modify a role for the next day and night.

I like the idea of the inventor having a choice between the 5 abilities he wants to hand out. I would leave that since it adds more strategy. Not sure if you should just let him have infinite inventions for each ability though or would that be overpowered?

The second thing I wouldn't change is the 0-shot backup inventor and motivator combo, since this is what makes the set-up unique, and promotes cooperation between the powerroles if the Inventor dies.

@Bicephalous Bob

I agree that the inventor that needs his inventions filled should have a different name altogether. Let me look up synonyms...

How about

Designer

,

Architect

, or

Founder

And again, the reason why I want this role in the game is because the motivator/inventor mutual reliance combo would literally make for a kickass game.

@Ika

Yea, I thought about that too, but I think it is best if you give scum as many options as possible to be honest. Even if one of the modifiers will be used rarely, I still like the idea of scum having in their arsenal just in case they want to do something creative.

[BBmolla]

What kind of motivator iteration were you thinking

the kind that targets during day and affects that night or the kind that targets during night and affects next night?

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Hermit's Paradise

14 Players

2 Mafia Goons
1 Mafia Proteus

1 Motivator
1 Inventor
1 Backup Designer
8 VTs

[/color]

• Inventor can give out the following each once per game: 1-shot Cop, 1-shot Doc, 1-shot Vig, 1-shot Roleblock, 1-shot Tracker.
  
• If Inventor gives out all abilities, his inventory is restocked.
  
• The Designer can hand out an empty invention of the following each once per game only if the Inventor dies: Cop Blueprints, Doc Blueprints, Vig Blueprints, Roleblock Blueprints, Tracker Blueprints.
  
• If the Designer gives out all blueprints, his inventory is restocked.
  
• The Motivator can fill an empty invention sent out by the Designer.
  
• Proteus can give out the following role modifiers once per game to modify a role for one day/night cycle: Voteless, Hated, Drunk, Compulsive, Delayed, Weak, Macho, Beloved, and Ninja

Thanks for the feedback. I do actually think that is balanced to be honest. Some of the scum modifiers can be devastating, which offsets what is in my opinion a very role heavy town for such a small design. That might also be because I have a different perspective of what balanced looks like, but nonetheless I think it would be a lot of fun.

[BBmolla]

Does the Motivator also function like a normal motivator?

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Motivator

[BBmolla]

Without the randomness it looks pretty solid imo.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Good question about the motivator. MS often does things differently than I am used too, because the way I always did it, is that the motivator affects the target the night it decides to motivate. Usually you would just inform the player motivated that they can use another shot, but you could discard this if the motivator takes to long to use his action (such as right before the night deadline), in which case it would be invalid.

If I were modding this game here though, I personally would let the motivator send in his action at any time, and it would always affect the player on the

next

night.

Also yes, the motivator is more or less the same besides being able to fill designs, which is an entirely new role designed for this game which essentially functions as a 0-shot inventor.