Touhou UPick 4 - [Aborted]

[borkjerfkin]

My strong townreads are sakura, notsci, zmuffin and sky_paladin.

I got amilder townreads from relentless and GiF and pieguyn.

I am in line with most of these and I hate that you basically just went and cherry picked the one that I didn't agree with you on as a reason to vote me

[fferyllt]

I couldn't tell you were in agreement with me until we started talking tonight.

[borkjerfkin]

It's up to you to show me how town you are. Not tell.

Why did you ask me this then?

[fferyllt]

In fact, it was your post 855.

[borkjerfkin]

I couldn't tell you were in agreement with me until we started talking tonight.

I posted my reads before tonight

[fferyllt]

It's up to you to show me how town you are. Not tell.

Why did you ask me this then?

Because it's true. My main gripe with you was that you seemed more involved in defending yourself than in scumhunting.

You have to defend yourself (general you) in mafia sometimes, but developing reads has to be a priority for town, too.

[fferyllt]

I couldn't tell you were in agreement with me until we started talking tonight.

I posted my reads before tonight

I missed them, then.

[borkjerfkin]

No, you don't get what I'm actually saying. This is about the data available to me. The lynch would have gone through if I hadn't replaced in. I know my alignment whether the rest of town does or not. I can scumhunt off my wagon, but I'm not sure how to given the megavotes.

Ok I'm losing sight of your original point then because I can't see how this relates to it: rephrase?

[borkjerfkin]

Who does borkums actually think is scum?

T: {muffin, sakura,

relentless

,

sky_paladin

,

kilga

}
N: {gaiden, shadoweh (liked demeanor dealing with muffin, didn't like what kilga pointed out), chalupa, thdgkfmkklfdkvjdflvjkdlfjvklwf (could possibly move up on reread), GIF (could move down; he hasn't done anything)
S: {

ns

,

feysal

}

in progress: pie, kagami

whatever: katsuki

was my initial reads post.

[fferyllt]

Oh and the other thing - I almost forgot - was that you spent so much time arguing that zmuffin's role wasn't a necessarily town role. In all of that, I got no sense until quite late that you were townreading him.

[borkjerfkin]

you're chalupa, in case that's not clear

[notscience]

Im around if you want to talk about things

[borkjerfkin]

Oh and the other thing - I almost forgot - was that you spent so much time arguing that zmuffin's role wasn't a necessarily town role. In all of that, I got no sense until quite late that you were townreading him.

I'm gonna punch a fucking wall because every time I brought that up it was as a response to someone else telling me why I was wrong

Yes, I'm townreading him, but that entire sequence had nothing to do with it and the read came later

[borkjerfkin]

Im around if you want to talk about things

metacircle wise how sure are you on gif?
why are you townreading feysal, gaiden?

[fferyllt]

No, you don't get what I'm actually saying. This is about the data available to me. The lynch would have gone through if I hadn't replaced in. I know my alignment whether the rest of town does or not. I can scumhunt off my wagon, but I'm not sure how to given the megavotes.

Ok I'm losing sight of your original point then because I can't see how this relates to it: rephrase?

It was an attempt to engage you on something I've been trying to figure out.

[borkjerfkin]

I have no idea what to do with that

[notscience]

I was townreading gif and him being a nonentity recently bugs me but I doubt it means anything

Im sheeping pie and sakura on gaiden

And feysal is kinda just based on how hes sounded. The only thing that bugged me was him not making that connection but I can understand him not.

[fferyllt]

what connection?

[borkjerfkin]

also re: katsuki reads in general; I have never seen Katsuki scum; this behavior is in line with every single Katsuki game I have ever been a part of, so meh, this is a high power game, do some powers.

Only maybe worrying thing is that nobody is even attempting to push him at all, which I would maybe expect to happen if he's town esp with so many people here who don't know him

[notscience]

About the absurdity in my play this game compared to disney

[fferyllt]

Ah. yeah.

[fferyllt]

I didn't read the disney game closely, but I had the impression he had an unusual approach to the game and tended to get pulled in by shiny things (shiny to him) and stay focused on them for a loooong time.

[fferyllt]

I like Thugkuddums so far.

What for? His activity may be understandable if he has been ill, but his accusations against Sakura Hana and Shadoweh for shutting down discussion were reaching at best. I also don't like how he completely ignored Sakura Hana claiming she would be confirmed tomorrow. I could imagine scum false claiming delayed innocent child, but Sakura Hana was not under that kind of pressure, and it would make no sense to lie today only to be caught tomorrow. I don't see Thug considering any of this.

I thought the only thing it would have really been reasonable to town read me for was my reaction to Sakura.

I also wondered what you meant, but I would not have guessed it was that. I thought your approach was strange, making a case only to immediately back off without pushing it. You don't give room to your scum reads, you give them rope, so I get why Sakura Hana considered it scumpainting. I find it weird how what you apparently considered your most town moment I found the most suspicious.

Bottom line: Explain why you're equivocating your personal "unwillingness to read pie via tone because of last game" to anything about me in

this

game in regard to the viability/believability of how I scumhunt/townhunt.

I had to check the meaning of equivocate from a dictionary, and I don't think it means what you think it does.

This argument has gotten ridiculous. I don't expect you to have an identical approach to mine, but I would expect it to make sense. I don't think it is reasonable to town read someone for behavior they were able to fake as scum, and being partners should have given you an excellent position from which to see her play.

VOTE: Bork

I'm expecting, but don't know, Chocola to flip scum. I'm expecting, but don't know, Relentless to flip scum. But if I could get a flip on Relentless first it would help me to decide if I could trust my neighbour or not - and to submit night actions accordingly.

I am Ran and Chocola is Chen. It's bad for me when Chen dies :/

From your posts I gather that your reasons for suspecting Relentless are at least in part dependent on Chocola being scum, but Chocola is independently suspicious. Would it not make more sense to lynch Chocola first then? I get that you have reason to want your neighbor to live, but this seems backwards to me.

i suppose the biggest issues i have with him atm is that, even with the reads list he gave, i'm not really sure how he arrived at those reads and that i'm not really seeing any sort of game-solving so much as questions that feel rather shallow (or easy to ask).

seriously dude if you've got an issue with my reads then fucking ask for an explanation and you'll get one.

mostly because with a 4x voter expressing willingness to vote him and noddy with his goon squad behind him, it wouldn't actually be all that difficult to make his lynch happen - that sort of grandstanding felt a bit like false bravado in an attempt to come off as sort of indifferent-antipathetic town or something

No; ns hasn't attempted to engage with me or for a read on me the entire game, but yet is positioning himself to vote me after a bunch of other people said he did and that didn't only take me by surprise but it seems like a feeling out or blending in in tactic following others who said they'd vote me
Additionally, he immediately weakened that stance in 636 when I posted 625

Ok, so bork, this I think is the crux of your scumread of Feysal, and it's reminding me of my vague thoughts when backup modding the Disney game.

My 2 phrase summation of his playstyle would be

- dogmatic
- rules of thumb

he reminds me a little of Jake, but more wordy.

Anyway, I don't think his applying his approach to reading pieguy after (afaik) one game where pieguy was a near-totally-flaked member of a 3 headed hydra as a yardstick for how you read pieguy makes him scum. he could be scum, but I don't think this is a reason to think so.

It does make him dogmatic to a fault, though.

[fferyllt]

zmuffin, I think you're wrong about bork.

[Kagami]

Meh, I don't really feel different about bork, but I don't want to lynch ferry.

Open to feysal, gaiden, shadoweh options. I don't really think shadoweh has been especially scumtastic, but in past games I've had a strongish townread on her at this point which I don't really have.

@Pie, are you still looking in {Gaiden, Shadoweh, Kilga}?