You could be Anyone IV - GAME OVER

[Randomnamechange]

@TSO i'm voting Gwen bc she is scummy and ignoring my questions.

[Shiro]

Shiro. Curiosity kills the cat, you know. But, here's something: you're only the third best possible Clotilde now.

I know that all too well trust me but I can't help it.

Is that a good thing? I am assuming kling and spider are the two above me?Does that mean anything? Is there a connection with how scummy someone is since kling is like top wagon right now? So many questions.

A side note

Fire and Vedith where are you? 7 posts are not like you two at all.

A second side note

I think kling is town. She reminds me of her play in twilight zone here. Especially her interactions with Titus.

[Dapper Stranger]

Okay, I trust you. So, are you saying that Elyse shouldn't be Clotild?

No. Of course not.
I feel the good in you. You will take me.
I can't go on alone.

A man is thinking we get it already Luke...

[Dapper Stranger]

Okay, I trust you. So, are you saying that Elyse shouldn't be Clotild?

No. Of course not.
I feel the good in you. You will take me.
I can't go on alone.

Sounds sorta Luke Skywalker-ish.

Heh

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Garmr calling someone incompetent is offensive no matter what the reason is. Whatever. That's all I'm gonna say on the matter

[Aneninen]

I am assuming kling and spider are the two above me?

To tell the truth, there's a third idea. I'm still thinking. (Were I a bit smarter!)

[Elyse]

@TSO i'm voting Gwen bc she is scummy and ignoring my questions.

What are your thoughts on the current major wagons?

You're hiding behind your spider Gwen vote.

[Passionate Storm]

Shiro. Curiosity kills the cat, you know. But, here's something: you're only the third best possible Clotilde now.

I know that all too well trust me but I can't help it.

Is that a good thing? I am assuming kling and spider are the two above me?Does that mean anything? Is there a connection with how scummy someone is since kling is like top wagon right now? So many questions.

A side note

Fire and Vedith where are you? 7 posts are not like you two at all.

A second side note

I think kling is town. She reminds me of her play in twilight zone here. Especially her interactions with Titus.

I don't see how. This is more Suidoken u pick than twilight zone. Both I lynched Klingon day 1. In Sudikoen, Kling's ISO was devoid of any attempt to read people or defend people. There was nothing to engage Klingon with. She finally gave a readwall but said wall had zero conclusions but a lot of waffles. In twilight, every post Klingon made early was a defense attack or question. When we fought, it was due to her bad strategy that did not line up with her words, making me doubt everything else she said. You can grab Kling's ISO side by side with Sudioken and see the contrast.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Welcome, Ladies and Gentlemen to the Elyse is Scum post!

To be completely honest, when I was reading her posts again, I thought "hmm, maybe I'll actually be making an "I was wrong about Elyse post" " but then I kept reading. Let's get started, shall we?

First up,

Elyse likes people who share their reads!

Spoiler:

What are your reads

@Garmr
I want to see EE's reads list.

Awesome, she likes people who share their reads!

She must share all her reads, right?...

Spoiler:

Except no reads list. Anywhere.
At least that's not really too scummy, she just hasn't had a chance. Or maybe hasn't felt like it. I mean, why would we need a reads list from her? It's not like we need to ground her a little bit so she stops jumping wagons like opportunistic scum.
Could we actually get that from you, though, Elyse, a reads list? So you can stop jumping wagons like opportunistic scum?

This brings us to our next point: Elyse is opportunistic scum. This section is divided into two parts: Elyse avoids lynchbait for town cred and Elyse jumps wagons
So let's get this over with, shall we?

Elyse avoids lynchbait for town cred

Here's the infamous case of Eagle v Elyse where Elyse does exactly what eagle says scum would do shortly after eagle says it.

Spoiler:

2. You and everyone else who responded to my intentionally provocative posting were bait. In a way. I initially was very vague and weird with the hope of grabbing the attention of people. (You and errant) the goal was to get people to vote me. Which you both did (obligingly).

6 pages already. After a quick glance I'm going to say

VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle

I don't really trust the bird. He seems to want to get involved in everything. He also didn't really provide a good reasoning for voting epola and never does. I would think a town player would try and push his first suspect to reveal more information instead his sitting back defending himself and I think trying to justify his vote by defending himself.

His other content is meh.

2.5 "How were we bait?" At this point, I believe that if I was a scum and I saw town voting provocative town, I would respond by voting the voting group

[quote="In

VOTE: Garmr

P-edit:

Yeah this was the right vote.

But you've already heard that story. Let's hear a new one, shall we?
This is the case of Elyse v Aneninen

Spoiler:

I don't like Anen's 233. There are a bunch of random comments that don't go anywhere, followed by an easy vote on Kling.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Aneninen

VOTE: Klingoncelt

What made the vote on Klingon no longer an easy vote?
These VERY scummy posts right here:

Spoiler:

VOTE: Klingoncelt.
While I am scumreading them, regardless of their alignment, I think Celty is sour for this:

FoS: Passionate Storm

I'm not sure if what you're doing is D1 silliness or if you're both drunken Scum.

I'm going to go make a pot of coffee now, looks like it's going to be a long night.

There is no reason for an FoS, least of all when you have yet to cast a vote, at this stage in the game.

It's kind of a long story, starting with Titus and myself both being the types that get voted of Day 1, and ending with the Neighborhood from Hell, from which the grey/green spazhydra crawled out of a brown acid rabbit hole game Varsoon ran.

I can drop a vote on Jeanne in a New York minute, but it's very hard for me to vote for Titus on Day1. Don't worry, I'll get around to it.

FoS: Passionate Storm

I'm not sure if what you're doing is D1 silliness or if you're both drunken Scum.

I'm going to go make a pot of coffee now, looks like it's going to be a long night.

look at this post guys and tell me it isn't a mobster trying to look like a regular person?

Both of you have a talent for reading me wrong.

A man is no one.

please don't tell me you are going to talk like this the whole game.

Oh yes, he's going to talk like this the whole game. He always does.

@AJ
Why are you townreading Alchemist? I've found his few posts scummy.

And yeah Kling deserves votes but parking a vote on him now is fruitless since he hasn't posted since his FoS.

She.

I post evenings/late night. 'Tis the season when I'm busy as hell with holiday crap, so I won't be in any thread for very long.

These are the only Klingon posts between Elyse's change of heart. Well, those, and a few votes. But we'll get to those in the next section

Elyse jumps wagons like opportunistic scum

Here is every time Elyse has voted and the votes on that person already when she voted:
Votes before first vote:

None on garmr.

VOTE: Garmr

But we already went over why that was really scummy.
Vote count before next post

Spoiler:

Official Vote Count

Klingoncelt

(3): Aunt Jemina, Spifflop, Aneninen

Shiro

(2): Varsoon, My Other Head Is Scum

Aneninen

(2): Passionate Storm, T S O

Spider Gwen

(2): Alchemist21, inte

Extrapolated Eagle

(2): Garmr, I Am Innocent

Garmr

(1): Elyse

Errantparabola

(1): randomidget

Spifflop

(1): grapes

itlepip

(1): Errantparabola

Passionate Storm

(1): Spider Gwen,

Not Voting

(7): Klingoncelt, TheWayItEnds, PeregrineV, Extrapolated Eagle, Dapper Stranger, Shiro,itlepip

With 23 alive, it takes 12 to lynch.

VOTE: alliterated bird

This vote is

NOT

being accepted as no player close to this name is in the game.

Please use correct names, or at least something remotely resembling the person you are voting for.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Aneninen

2 votes on him already. And we already went over the other reason this is scummy

VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle

Let's look at the votes on me prior to this:

Spoiler:

Official Vote Count

Klingoncelt

(3): Aunt Jemina, Spifflop, Aneninen

Shiro

(2): Varsoon, My Other Head Is Scum

Aneninen

(2): Passionate Storm, T S O

Spider Gwen

(2): Alchemist21, inte

Extrapolated Eagle

(2): Garmr, I Am Innocent

Garmr

(1): Elyse

Errantparabola

(1): randomidget

Spifflop

(1): grapes

itlepip

(1): Errantparabola

Passionate Storm

(1): Spider Gwen,

Not Voting

(7): Klingoncelt, TheWayItEnds, PeregrineV, Extrapolated Eagle, Dapper Stranger, Shiro,itlepip

With 23 alive, it takes 12 to lynch.

VOTE: alliterated bird

This vote is

NOT

being accepted as no player close to this name is in the game.

Please use correct names, or at least something remotely resembling the person you are voting for.

Sorry VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle

So I'm now the largest wagon in the pack

VOTE: Klingoncelt

Votes before:

Spoiler:

Official Vote Count

Extrapolated Eagle

(4): Garmr, I Am Innocent, itlepip, Elyse

Aneninen

(3): Passionate Storm, T S O, Alchemist21

Spider Gwen

(3): inte, randomidget, Dapper Stranger

Shiro

(2): My Other Head Is Scum, Varsoon

Klingoncelt

(2): Aunt Jemina, Aneninen

grapes

(2): Spider Gwen, Spifflop

Aunt Jemina

(1): PeregrineV

Elyse

(1): Extrapolated Eagle

Spifflop

(1): grapes

itlepip

(1): Errantparabola

Not Voting

(3): Klingoncelt, Shiro, TheWayItEnds

With 23 alive, it takes 12 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline

(expired on 2015-12-27 17:09:57)

Hmm, two already. Also went over why this is scummy already

@Garmr
Your points are good. I would join you on EE but it doesn't seem to have enough support today because yeah people think he's town and it's annoying.

Just wanted to add this in here because it emphasizes my point

VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle

Votes:

Spoiler:

VOTE: eagle

VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle

Official Vote Count

Klingoncelt

(5): Aunt Jemina, Aneninen, Elyse, Passionate Storm, itlepip

grapes

(4): Spider Gwen, Spifflop, Errantparabola, Shiro

Spider Gwen

(3): inte, randomidget, Dapper Stranger

Shiro

(2): My Other Head Is Scum, Varsoon

Aneninen

(2): T S O, Alchemist21

Passionate Storm

(1): Klingoncelt

Aunt Jemina

(1): PeregrineV

Extrapolated Eagle

(1): Garmr

Errantparabola

(1): I Am Innocent

Elyse

(1): Extrapolated Eagle

Spifflop

(1): grapes

Not Voting

(1): TheWayItEnds

With 23 alive, it takes 12 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline

(expired on 2015-12-27 17:09:57)

4 on me again. But there's at least three people on that wagon before she joins it again

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Klingoncelt

Spoiler:

Official Vote Count

Klingoncelt

(5): Aunt Jemina, Aneninen, Elyse, Passionate Storm, itlepip

grapes

(4): Spider Gwen, Spifflop, Errantparabola, Shiro

Spider Gwen

(3): inte, randomidget, Dapper Stranger

Shiro

(2): My Other Head Is Scum, Varsoon

Aneninen

(2): T S O, Alchemist21

Passionate Storm

(1): Klingoncelt

Aunt Jemina

(1): PeregrineV

Extrapolated Eagle

(1): Garmr

Errantparabola

(1): I Am Innocent

Elyse

(1): Extrapolated Eagle

Spifflop

(1): grapes

Not Voting

(1): TheWayItEnds

With 23 alive, it takes 12 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline

(expired on 2015-12-27 17:09:57)

3 votes total for miss Klingon.
Elyse doesn't stick on a single wagon for two long she justice santé someone lynched



So we're at the end of the post now, eagle, does this mean this is all the reasons she's scum?

No! Of course not. Some of these things are just harder to quote or have been said like a million times already. But if you actually read this far and you're still interested in why Elyse is scum, I would love to point you to my other posts/ even discuss it with you

[Extrapolated Eagle]

You guys are actually metaing her after four games? Well done.

[PeregrineV]

I should probably make my way through the 20+ pages, and I think I will, but for now I'm selling my vote to the first person to request it. Be like a jump start, perhaps.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I should probably make my way through the 20+ pages, and I think I will, but for now I'm selling my vote to the first person to request it. Be like a jump start, perhaps.

Vote Elyse please

[Passionate Storm]

I should probably make my way through the 20+ pages, and I think I will, but for now I'm selling my vote to the first person to request it. Be like a jump start, perhaps.

I request you to vote Klingoncelt.

Birds of Prey for the win.

[Passionate Storm]

@708, you are the quintessential showman. Your bluster reminds me of me. Being a showman doesn't hide the weaknesses in your case.

First, your implication is that people cannot divine reads from the comments people make. A wall is not required.

Second, your prediction match is not helpful. If you set yourself up to be lynchbait, you expect both alignments to vote you. Also, if you're scum it's a built in defense. There are very few times where wagonning yourself is good. If you do it, you must either confirm yourself or have a game breaking strategy in mind. You have neither.

Third, if Elyse is opportunistic scum, why doesn't she pick a wagon? Vote parking is how to get people lynched.

Your "case" doesn't fly.

Talk to me about Klingon or vote her.

[PeregrineV]

I should probably make my way through the 20+ pages, and I think I will, but for now I'm selling my vote to the first person to request it. Be like a jump start, perhaps.

Vote Elyse please

We have a winner!

Vote: Elyse

[PeregrineV]

I should probably make my way through the 20+ pages, and I think I will, but for now I'm selling my vote to the first person to request it. Be like a jump start, perhaps.

I request you to vote Klingoncelt.

Birds of Prey for the win.

Hmmm, a counterproposal.

I'll start reading with these.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@708, you are the quintessential showman. Your bluster reminds me of me. Being a showman doesn't hide the weaknesses in your case.

I knew you would say that, actually. It's part of why I'm town reading you.

First, your implication is that people cannot divine reads from the comments people make. A wall is not required.

I meant to imply that people have already picked someone to focus and autoskim most of the comments coming from everyone else. Especially if said people already believe the person is town early on. The wall is meant to bring this to light.

Second, your prediction match is not helpful. If you set yourself up to be lynchbait, you expect both alignments to vote you. Also, if you're scum it's a built in defense. There are very few times where wagonning yourself is good. If you do it, you must either confirm yourself or have a game breaking strategy in mind. You have neither.

Not smsrtscum like Elyse said she is. I expected mostly town to vote me at first, because it's too easy to jump lynch bait early in the game and anyone who's worth their weight as scum knows that it isn't going anywhere. Better to get points out of it.

If you disagree with this particular point, that's fine, it's more theory based and it's mostly a reason for me because I don't particularly expect anyone else to believe it. After the game when Elyse has flipped I think would be a better time to discuss the accuracy of this theory.

Third, if Elyse is opportunistic scum, why doesn't she pick a wagon? Vote parking is how to get people lynched.

Partially. But stale wagons fade as people with parked votes forget them and park elsewhere. Swapping votes around like crazy makes wagons look like they're continuing to grow.

Your "case" doesn't fly.

Talk to me more about why. Or even just the case itself. Can we talk about her lack of follow-up on anyone even though she scum reads aneninen for the same thing?

Or the fact that she doesn't press her reads very much? She poops a vote with a reason and moves on often.

Talk to me about Klingon or vote her.

Interesting, but not scum, I don't think. The fos explanation makes sense, she was taking it slower to read people better. The other end of this is that it means she has to read people. Unfortunately her reads seem kind of OMGUS-y and not too in depth, but a lot of the time that's how town reacts under pressure, imo. Elyse's OMGUS was different, it was an over the top AtE OMGUS that she recognized in order to keep other people from getting a foothold on her. I don't like how long it's taking klingy to catch up in the thread or come up with reads, but I'm also not at all excited about the way she's being hounded by spifflop. I'm ok with hounding, but he just states "wrong" kinda and it's really frustrating to deal with. Klingon has at least until day 2 to prove herself in my opinion, there's scummier stuff in the pond.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I should probably make my way through the 20+ pages, and I think I will, but for now I'm selling my vote to the first person to request it. Be like a jump start, perhaps.

Vote Elyse please

We have a winner!

Vote: Elyse

Exciting!

I should probably make my way through the 20+ pages, and I think I will, but for now I'm selling my vote to the first person to request it. Be like a jump start, perhaps.

I request you to vote Klingoncelt.

Birds of Prey for the win.

Hmmm, a counterproposal.

I'll start reading with these.

Ok, I look forward to it.

[jasonT1981]

Official Vote Count

Klingoncelt

(6): Aunt Jemina, Aneninen, Passionate Storm, itlepip, Spifflop, Elyse

Extrapolated Eagle

(3): Garmr, T S O, Errantparabola

Spider Gwen

(3): inte, randomidget, Dapper Stranger

Passionate Storm

(2): Klingoncelt, Spider Gwen

Shiro

(2): My Other Head Is Scum, Varsoon

Elyse

(2): Extrapolated Eagle, PeregrineV

Varsoon

(1): Alchemist21

grapes

(1): Shiro

Errantparabola

(1): I Am Innocent

Spifflop

(1): grapes

Not Voting

(1): TheWayItEnds

With 23 alive, it takes 12 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline

(expired on 2015-12-27 17:09:57)

[Errantparabola]

Somewhat disappointed that my catchup completely slipped under the radar. Does anyone have anything to say about it?
I'll respond to the last 4 pages when I have some more time as well.

[itlepip]

Interesting, but not scum, I don't think. The fos explanation makes sense, she was taking it slower to read people better. The other end of this is that it means she has to read people. Unfortunately her reads seem kind of OMGUS-y and not too in depth, but a lot of the time that's how town reacts under pressure, imo. Elyse's OMGUS was different, it was an over the top AtE OMGUS that she recognized in order to keep other people from getting a foothold on her. I don't like how long it's taking klingy to catch up in the thread or come up with reads, but I'm also not at all excited about the way she's being hounded by spifflop. I'm ok with hounding, but he just states "wrong" kinda and it's really frustrating to deal with. Klingon has at least until day 2 to prove herself in my opinion, there's scummier stuff in the pond.

1). In the early game a vote has so little value that FoS is like being worried about using a feather to hit someone so you use lint. And that is your only defense of Kling in this paragraph...

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Somewhat disappointed that my catchup completely slipped under the radar. Does anyone have anything to say about it?
I'll respond to the last 4 pages when I have some more time as well.

I saw and I didn't like your reasoning for voting me if it is what I interpreted it to be: "not sure about the other wagons, so I'll pick this one"

Also the picking one point to dismiss in an argument is really silly if you don't address the whole thing, unless you were conceding the other points in said argument. Confbias is a particularly bad reason because it implies I'm stretching to find points- you would have to kind of respond to all the other points to claim the last one is just confbias.

I'm plenty willing to reason with anyone who's willing to reason with me, with the exception of Elyse- I don't reason with scum.

I promise to fully consider any arguments in defense of Elyse for anyone who is willing to do the same for me. If you can convince me that Elyse is scum (AND I am not set on this idea emotionally, so good reasoning will get to me, I one hundred percent promise to take a step back and realize that I'm wrong if anyone wants to work with me.

I have to say though, thinking wise, I doubt anyone really wants to work with me on this. I have reread the thread at least once a day every day with focus on Elyse in an attempt to prove me wrong, because I have no intention of pushing a wagon on town, but every day I find new things.

I have to truthfully and honestly say I would be delighted for someone to show interest in my case or to continue interest in it. *nods to miss storm* thank you, by the way for st least reading and responding to my most recent case. It made my day.

Anyways. That's my stance

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@itlepip I will respond to your argument for Klingon if you respond to my argument for Elyse. Otherwise there's very little point in trying to discuss this with me

[itlepip]

@itlepip I will respond to your argument for Klingon if you respond to my argument for Elyse. Otherwise there's very little point in trying to discuss this with me

I think Elyse is scummy, but in your little review post you omitted 273 where her points seem a lot better than yours. Especially about whiteknighting and some misrepping that happened.

[hiplop]

I'm going back to this, mainly because IDK about the grapes wagon anymore (I want spiff's input), and I honestly am not so sure about spifflop-town anymore. Also very hesitant to join Kling wagon
Elyse why Kling > Eagle?

Fruit train is still very convincing to me (hiplop) spiffeh is less sure. I really, really think grapes is scum for meta AND just general scumminess. The issue we find with the eagle wagon is this guy (Bird) is absolutely mislynch bait. Like I DO NOT see him as scummy at all and the pushes on him seem to be taking advantage more than anything. Kling is like scumming it up all day in the thread

just because I'm voting the same person as you are makes me less suspicious? Explain

Makes you easier to work with overall! And FWIW I don't think you're scummy anymore.