You could be Anyone IV - GAME OVER

[Spifflop]

I'm going back to this, mainly because IDK about the grapes wagon anymore (I want spiff's input), and I honestly am not so sure about spifflop-town anymore. Also very hesitant to join Kling wagon
Elyse why Kling > Eagle?

Fruit train is still very convincing to me (hiplop) spiffeh is less sure. I really, really think grapes is scum for meta AND just general scumminess. The issue we find with the eagle wagon is this guy (Bird) is absolutely mislynch bait. Like I DO NOT see him as scummy at all and the pushes on him seem to be taking advantage more than anything. Kling is like scumming it up all day in the thread

just because I'm voting the same person as you are makes me less suspicious? Explain

Makes you easier to work with overall! And FWIW I don't think you're scummy anymore.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Interesting, but not scum, I don't think. The fos explanation makes sense, she was taking it slower to read people better. The other end of this is that it means she has to read people. Unfortunately her reads seem kind of OMGUS-y and not too in depth, but a lot of the time that's how town reacts under pressure, imo. Elyse's OMGUS was different, it was an over the top AtE OMGUS that she recognized in order to keep other people from getting a foothold on her. I don't like how long it's taking klingy to catch up in the thread or come up with reads, but I'm also not at all excited about the way she's being hounded by spifflop. I'm ok with hounding, but he just states "wrong" kinda and it's really frustrating to deal with. Klingon has at least until day 2 to prove herself in my opinion, there's scummier stuff in the pond.

1). In the early game a vote has so little value that FoS is like being worried about using a feather to hit someone so you use lint. And that is your only defense of Kling in this paragraph...

I think it's more a matter of empathy/an inside joke than an actual problem dealing with the game and alignment.

Sorry of a recognition of the fact that Klingon read Titus as being scummy but understood that that happened in the past to both of them and telling Titus she would give her more time before she made up her mind due to being under that kind of pressure before and hating it.

If this is true then there is quite a bit of irony to the situation, Klingon saw Titus as scum but have Grace hating the extra pressure she got and in return Titus put the pressure on Klingon.

It is the largest defense of Klingon because it defends the cornerstone of the argument against her.

@itlepip I will respond to your argument for Klingon if you respond to my argument for Elyse. Otherwise there's very little point in trying to discuss this with me

I think Elyse is scummy, but in your little review post you omitted 273 where her points seem a lot better than yours. Especially about whiteknighting and some misrepping that happened.

That's true and I will relinquish that her argument in that post was perhaps a bit better than my own, but I do not believe the argument against her is truly defined by her ability to respond and act and wave off accusations, because these are the things, I think, that make scum more often than town

[Spifflop]

. I'm ok with hounding, but he just states "wrong" kinda and it's really frustrating to deal with. Klingon has at least until day 2 to prove herself in my opinion, there's scummier stuff in the pond.

stuff like this bothers me though. You don't get to dictate where the lynch goes. And delaying a lynch is almost always a scum-thing, seriously.

Eagle, I think your case is solid. I've read it over 3 times. I'm not sure what the scum motivation is? Can you explain WHY she do those strange things?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@itlepip
I had to sort of cut my answer short since I have to leave for work now but I will respond more fully when I get home

@hiplop yes, I will get to this the moment I get a chance, I've been waiting for someone to ask this question

[Garmr]

Garmr calling someone incompetent is offensive no matter what the reason is. Whatever. That's all I'm gonna say on the matter

If Spifflop is offended then Spifflop would say so. No need to white knight for spiffy they are adults.

[Garmr]

I think annen is town at the moment even with his lack of hunting compared to usual. I think maybe his obsessing over some sort of power role/gambit since his pretty much soft claiming with this clotid stuff. I can't find any scum motivation when looking through his posts. He still has some reasoning through when it comes to his reads (just not as much as normal annen but it's different from scum annen).

So he can be townie.

[Spider Gwen]

What do you think it means?

it means she's more likely town
mostly because 116 is a town post in the first place

I'm going to need an explanation for this.

also, short version is spifflops reads are fake
you'll get the long version after i see some responses

And this too. You seem to just be throwing things out. I want to see what you're thinking.

[Spider Gwen]

You've already proven you can think ahead. What's to say that you didn't put your neck on the line just so that you can use this defense later?
I personally don't believe it, just want to hear your response.

Far too risky. I'm a horrible actor. I did try to gambit once as scum and I don't think I've ever been lynched faster, with the exception of my first couple mafia games - I was annoying as crap (still kinda am, I guess) and stupid and thought that everyone that voted me must be scum.
When I gambit as I have a hard time figuring out how to read people without cutting my options down too much. I haven't played scum much before.

If you're a terrible gambiter, why would you deliberately try a gambit to draw votes to me and suppose it would succeed?

I feel even worse for calling that a possible slip. This is a horrible post.

Eagle I am so sorry...

Which one was that horrible out of all those quotes?

Stormy's. That question is awfully loaded. It is only meant to make Eagle look worse. There was no interest in finding out his motives.

---

Elyse if you're town, alignment claim

What's the use in this?

[Spider Gwen]

Why so obsessed with Clotid?

This is a scumtell for Titus. She pulled something similar in Organic Chemistry. She should know better than to ask this. This is fishing.

[Dapper Stranger]

@TSO i'm voting Gwen bc she is scummy and ignoring my questions.

What are your thoughts on the current major wagons?

You're hiding behind your spider Gwen vote.

A man is wondering why a lady is deflecting from a wagon that many and more believe could be scum?

[Elyse]

I don't know what that means

[Dapper Stranger]

@itlepip I will respond to your argument for Klingon if you respond to my argument for Elyse. Otherwise there's very little point in trying to discuss this with me

I think Elyse is scummy, but in your little review post you omitted 273 where her points seem a lot better than yours. Especially about whiteknighting and some misrepping that happened.

A man is seeing over and again that scum are often making better points than town. Especially when nothing is known.

[Dapper Stranger]

I don't know what that means

It means what it is saying Elyse, but a man will interpret so his question isn't so easily dodged...


Why are you working to deflect from a wagon that several have voted because they find her scummy and about twice as many have expressed that they see some scummotivation there onto another wagon? I mean, EE is most likely noob town and Celt's wagon has at least two names on it which leave a bad taste in my mouth. So why are you trying to nudge people off someone with a decent shot at being scum and onto something that looks very much like mislynch bait- when the person you're trying to bounce votes off isn't even you?

[Elyse]

My question wasn't an attempt to get votes off of Spider Gwen...I'm scumreading her myself. If you look at randomiget's ISO, it's basically empty. He's using his vote on Spider Gwen to coast through the game and not commenting on anything else. I don't have a problem with his vote, but the fact that he's using it as a shield.

[Dapper Stranger]

It is sounding that way to a man when he is reading it, but is now at least understanding your point.

[Varsoon]

What a weird post.

Are you posting in character/flavor, or do you have a tragic role?

Would you please stop?
You're fishing. You're not helping.

VOTE: Klingoncelt

[Errantparabola]

Garmr calling someone incompetent is offensive no matter what the reason is. Whatever. That's all I'm gonna say on the matter

If Spifflop is offended then Spifflop would say so. No need to white knight for spiffy they are adults.

I honestly don't remember the definition of white knight, but it seems like you're trying to paint eagle as scum for that post and that's terrible

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I think it's more a matter of empathy/an inside joke than an actual problem dealing with the game and alignment.

Sorry of a recognition of the fact that Klingon read Titus as being scummy but understood that that happened in the past to both of them and telling Titus she would give her more time before she made up her mind due to being under that kind of pressure before and hating it.

If this is true then there is quite a bit of irony to the situation, Klingon saw Titus as scum but have Grace hating the extra pressure she got and in return Titus put the pressure on Klingon.

It is the largest defense of Klingon because it defends the cornerstone of the argument against her.

To add onto and clarify this, itlepip, I think Klingon is being scummy, but not necessarily for the reasons brought against her. I think the fos might have been genuine, but addressing the posts she addressed instead of the main stuff and not sharing really any reads /not scumhunting, that's scummy.

That said, it's not really scummy enough for me to want to lynch her over Elyse, and her things can be explained by misunderstandings, quirkiness, mistakes. They're small and repetitive, something scum is rarely guilty of, in my experience.

Anyways, that's my thoughts on her.

@itlepip I will respond to your argument for Klingon if you respond to my argument for Elyse. Otherwise there's very little point in trying to discuss this with me

I think Elyse is scummy, but in your little review post you omitted 273 where her points seem a lot better than yours. Especially about whiteknighting and some misrepping that happened.

That's true and I will relinquish that her argument in that post was perhaps a bit better than my own, but I do not believe the argument against her is truly defined by her ability to respond and act and wave off accusations, because these are the things, I think, that make scum more often than town

To add to this part, misrepping as town is something that's often going to happen. Peoplemake mistakes, especially when they can't see all the answers. Misunderstandings happen. However, that post in no way represents my entire argument against Elyse, and making it seem less /trying to take the legs out from under it. Like I said, I am constantly reevaluating my read on Elyse and constantly finding new things against her. I'm not seeing many truly protown posts from her, and to be honest, not many attempts at it either.

. I'm ok with hounding, but he just states "wrong" kinda and it's really frustrating to deal with. Klingon has at least until day 2 to prove herself in my opinion, there's scummier stuff in the pond.

stuff like this bothers me though. You don't get to dictate where the lynch goes. And delaying a lynch is almost always a scum-thing, seriously.

Sorry, I should restate: I don't have a problem with people voting Klingon. The story could definitely go that she's scum. However the other side of the story is still plausible enough to me to not want to vote her yet. And I don't see scum motivation behind her posts. The posts merely seen scummy in and of themselves instead of telling a story. So I would prefer for the lynch to be Elyse today over anyone else, but you're right, I don't have the power to make everyone vote for her.

Eagle, I think your case is solid. I've read it over 3 times. I'm not sure what the scum motivation is? Can you explain WHY she do those strange things?

Staying away from being the first one on the wagon is something scum will do just to avoid the largest amount of scrutiny that the first and last people often come under on a mislynch

Votes hopping is a good way to keep the attention and votes stacking on people. It's part of a bandwagon effect. You see a lot of voting for one person, you assume the crowd is right and you'll vote for someone. A single vote has a hard time getting off the ground but two votes put it in motion. Finally, it makes it seem like the wagons aren't going stale, because you keep seeing votes for Klingon and votes for me, people who skim see us as coming under a lot of pressure/think we're getting voted and then bandwagon effect makes them think that if there are a lot of people doing it, then it must be right. I feel like this could have been more succinctly worded, but if I didn't get the message across let me know and I'll try to clear it up

Not pushing votes does two things
1. Similarly to avoiding being first and last on a wagon, the fact that when people come back to see why this person was lynched when they were town, they look, see no push coming out of Elyse, and all of a sudden she's town because she was just sheeping.
2. It keeps people from responding with too much serious content, pushing to the point where it becomes obvious person is town. To the point where they release their feelings under frustration and then it's one more nk they have to perform because they have a hard time pushing that lynch
3. It makes her look active and involved, when she's really kind of sidelining.

The mediocrity is her not blatantly making friends or enemies because it could convict/vingtième them later if for some reason she flips, or make her look suspicious if they flip. Notice how kind she is to Gwen when she scum reads her?

The not sharing reads let's her vote hop like mad or say whatever she wants/needs about someone, when she wants/needs to say it. No one can convict her of contradicting herself when there isn't anything there to contradict. Also goes back kind of to the mediocrity thing- how are you going to search for buddies if she didn't explicitly read anyone as not scum/defend anyone. Notice how she shares one mild town read here and another one there so they're very spread apart and can be hard to find, and even if you did she could always say it changed because they're so far apart


The avoiding lynch bait is a good way to get town cred for looking like you defended someone and stuck your neck out for them when you did not. This isn't necessarily scummy, but voting someone on the wagon without actually town reading the lynchbait is. She went to an extreme (voting) to share her opinion that it is lynch bait without actually having that town read of the lynch bait itself.
This is all the things I can think of right now, but be sure to let me know if I missed one or two and I'll actually go back and make sure I got em all in a minute

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I think it's more a matter of empathy/an inside joke than an actual problem dealing with the game and alignment.

Sorry of a recognition of the fact that Klingon read Titus as being scummy but understood that that happened in the past to both of them and telling Titus she would give her more time before she made up her mind due to being under that kind of pressure before and hating it.

If this is true then there is quite a bit of irony to the situation, Klingon saw Titus as scum but have Grace hating the extra pressure she got and in return Titus put the pressure on Klingon.

It is the largest defense of Klingon because it defends the cornerstone of the argument against her.

To add onto and clarify this, itlepip, I think Klingon is being scummy, but not necessarily for the reasons brought against her. I think the fos might have been genuine, but addressing the posts she addressed instead of the main stuff and not sharing really any reads /not scumhunting, that's scummy.

That said, it's not really scummy enough for me to want to lynch her over Elyse, and her things can be explained by misunderstandings, quirkiness, mistakes. They're small and repetitive, something scum is rarely guilty of, in my experience.

Anyways, that's my thoughts on her.

@itlepip I will respond to your argument for Klingon if you respond to my argument for Elyse. Otherwise there's very little point in trying to discuss this with me

I think Elyse is scummy, but in your little review post you omitted 273 where her points seem a lot better than yours. Especially about whiteknighting and some misrepping that happened.

That's true and I will relinquish that her argument in that post was perhaps a bit better than my own, but I do not believe the argument against her is truly defined by her ability to respond and act and wave off accusations, because these are the things, I think, that make scum more often than town

To add to this part, misrepping as town is something that's often going to happen. Peoplemake mistakes, especially when they can't see all the answers. Misunderstandings happen. However, that post in no way represents my entire argument against Elyse, and making it seem less /trying to take the legs out from under it. Like I said, I am constantly reevaluating my read on Elyse and constantly finding new things against her. I'm not seeing many truly protown posts from her, and to be honest, not many attempts at it either.

. I'm ok with hounding, but he just states "wrong" kinda and it's really frustrating to deal with. Klingon has at least until day 2 to prove herself in my opinion, there's scummier stuff in the pond.

stuff like this bothers me though. You don't get to dictate where the lynch goes. And delaying a lynch is almost always a scum-thing, seriously.

Sorry, I should restate: I don't have a problem with people voting Klingon. The story could definitely go that she's scum. However the other side of the story is still plausible enough to me to not want to vote her yet. And I don't see scum motivation behind her posts. The posts merely seen scummy in and of themselves instead of telling a story. So I would prefer for the lynch to be Elyse today over anyone else, but you're right, I don't have the power to make everyone vote for her.

Eagle, I think your case is solid. I've read it over 3 times. I'm not sure what the scum motivation is? Can you explain WHY she do those strange things?

Staying away from being the first one on the wagon is something scum will do just to avoid the largest amount of scrutiny that the first and last people often come under on a mislynch

Votes hopping is a good way to keep the attention and votes stacking on people. It's part of a bandwagon effect. You see a lot of voting for one person, you assume the crowd is right and you'll vote for someone. A single vote has a hard time getting off the ground but two votes put it in motion. Finally, it makes it seem like the wagons aren't going stale, because you keep seeing votes for Klingon and votes for me, people who skim see us as coming under a lot of pressure/think we're getting voted and then bandwagon effect makes them think that if there are a lot of people doing it, then it must be right. I feel like this could have been more succinctly worded, but if I didn't get the message across let me know and I'll try to clear it up

Not pushing votes does two things
1. Similarly to avoiding being first and last on a wagon, the fact that when people come back to see why this person was lynched when they were town, they look, see no push coming out of Elyse, and all of a sudden she's town because she was just sheeping.
2. It keeps people from responding with too much serious content, pushing to the point where it becomes obvious person is town. To the point where they release their feelings under frustration and then it's one more nk they have to perform because they have a hard time pushing that lynch
3. It makes her look active and involved, when she's really kind of sidelining.

The mediocrity is her not blatantly making friends or enemies because it could convict/vingtième them later if for some reason she flips, or make her look suspicious if they flip. Notice how kind she is to Gwen when she scum reads her?

The not sharing reads let's her vote hop like mad or say whatever she wants/needs about someone, when she wants/needs to say it. No one can convict her of contradicting herself when there isn't anything there to contradict. Also goes back kind of to the mediocrity thing- how are you going to search for buddies if she didn't explicitly read anyone as not scum/defend anyone. Notice how she shares one mild town read here and another one there so they're very spread apart and can be hard to find, and even if you did she could always say it changed because they're so far apart


The avoiding lynch bait is a good way to get town cred for looking like you defended someone and stuck your neck out for them when you did not. This isn't necessarily scummy, but voting someone on the wagon without actually town reading the lynchbait is. She went to an extreme (voting) to share her opinion that it is lynch bait without actually having that town read of the lynch bait itself.
This is all the things I can think of right now, but be sure to let me know if I missed one or two and I'll actually go back and make sure I got em all in a minute



----
Ebwop

[Errantparabola]

Looking over 708 right now.
Took me three tries to realize that the spoiler on Elyse's reads list was purposely empty, holy shit I'm dumb
I was initially skeptical of Eagle's read on Elyse because of one early thing I remember being "scum usually doesn't want to get in the middle of things, but Elyse is scum because of getting in the middle of things because Elyse is confident scum" which was very sketchy to me (correct me if I'm wrong on that one, Eagle, because my memory is quite hazy)
But other than that, the case is well constructed. Eagle I've had several encounters with you where I've called your logic bad but I don't really have much to say on this one.
The one thing i'm unsure of is your whole idea of Elyse being opportunistic scum by switiching reads around. I really don't see how switching votes often leads to scummy behavior. I agree with what Titus said about optimal scum play being to push one person strongly to get a mislynch.
I don't really know how what Elyse is doing would lead to a scum victory, could you go in depth on that (or if you already have, please point me to it)

I'm also slightly concerned how you openly state you refuse to interact with your scumreads. Just because you're confident that someeone is scum doesn't mean the rest of us are. So interacting would be a help.

p-edit looked quickly at your recent post and it looks like some of my questions might be answered there. Will respond to that, but for now Eagle, you ain't lookin' too bad. I think I might want to try and reevaluate you because I see you coming up with some decent content.
I see me in the future being less confident with any possible scummy thing you might do actually coming from a scum slot because I've convinced myself otherwise twice now, and I'm getting closer to thinking it might be something akin to playstyle

UNVOTE:

[Errantparabola]

@Extrapolated Eagle, I like the effort your putting into this, but I can gurantee you will get burned out pretty quickly at this if you try to keep that amount for whole game. The game speed for this is much different than a blitz. Its more casual game.

I like you man, don't get burned out.

-Fire

gj on proving this wrong eagle lol

[Errantparabola]

I think the fos might have been genuine, but addressing the posts she addressed instead of the main stuff and not sharing really any reads /not scumhunting, that's scummy.

That said, it's not really scummy enough for me to want to lynch her over Elyse, and her things can be explained by misunderstandings, quirkiness, mistakes. They're small and repetitive, something scum is rarely guilty of, in my experience.

I came to a pretty similar conclusion on Kling as right here. You're resonating with me Eagle and that's a good thing.

Sorry, I should restate: I don't have a problem with people voting Klingon. The story could definitely go that she's scum. However the other side of the story is still plausible enough to me to not want to vote her yet. And I don't see scum motivation behind her posts. The posts merely seen scummy in and of themselves instead of telling a story. So I would prefer for the lynch to be Elyse today over anyone else, but you're right, I don't have the power to make everyone vote for her.

Agree with the kling part yet again.

Not pushing votes does two things
1. Similarly to avoiding being first and last on a wagon, the fact that when people come back to see why this person was lynched when they were town, they look, see no push coming out of Elyse, and all of a sudden she's town because she was just sheeping.
2. It keeps people from responding with too much serious content, pushing to the point where it becomes obvious person is town. To the point where they release their feelings under frustration and then it's one more nk they have to perform because they have a hard time pushing that lynch
3. It makes her look active and involved, when she's really kind of sidelining.

1. I've seen scum start wagons, scum hammer, scum sheep. I've also seen town do all these things. Sheeping doesn't equal town and I think that most people know that. From what I see, Elyse has been actually making poitns on here reads and that makes her accountable for them.
2. Not understanding number 2, can you explain
3. I also don't really see Elyse sidelining, could you point me to some things you've said about this?

Eagle I really honestly appreciate the effort you've put into this game. Doesn't make you town or scum, but I respect it none the less and I'm interesting in hearing your response to this.

[Errantparabola]

Elyse has been actually making poitns on here reads and that makes her accountable for them.

I'm actually not 100% sure on this. It's ISO time.

[Errantparabola]

Okay, maybe not to the extent that I was imagining but I still see Elyse pushing her reads to a certain extent.
Definitely not to the point where someone could look back on Day 1 and say "Elyse was just sheeping"

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I'm also slightly concerned how you openly state you refuse to interact with your scumreads. Just because you're confident that someeone is scum doesn't mean the rest of us are. So interacting would be a help.

Ok, I'm certain Elyse is scum. In my opinion interacting with her at this point in time will determine me from the task of making sure she is lynched, and I highly doubt that she will say anything that will make me reconsider. The things she could be doing to make me reconsider are all things she would be less likely to do while we're arguing over it.

p-edit looked quickly at your recent post and it looks like some of my questions might be answered there. Will respond to that, but for now Eagle, you ain't lookin' too bad. I think I might want to try and reevaluate you because I see you coming up with some decent content.
I see me in the future being less confident with any possible scummy thing you might do actually coming from a scum slot because I've convinced myself otherwise twice now, and I'm getting closer to thinking it might be something akin to playstyle

UNVOTE:

Thanks, I tried, haha. What can I say, I like to live on edge.

@Extrapolated Eagle, I like the effort your putting into this, but I can gurantee you will get burned out pretty quickly at this if you try to keep that amount for whole game. The game speed for this is much different than a blitz. Its more casual game.

I like you man, don't get burned out.

-Fire

gj on proving this wrong eagle lol

Not completely, I had to drop the role play stuff (it was annoying people anyways) and I wasn't even really able to finish my "reasons Elyse is scum" all the way this morning because I was doubting people would actually read all of it and I was so discouraged. But thanks anyways, I'm still going pretty strong And tomorrow maybe I'll finish a whole reads list (there are just so many people, lol)