NY 191: Denmark Mafia - Endgame

[Fro99er]

(expired on 2015-12-30 16:30:00)

(Wed Dec 30 @ 4:30:00 PM ET)

VOTECOUNT 2.09

• (1)
  Davsto
  — Drixx
  (0)
  Espeonage
  —
  (0)
  Nero Cain
  —
  (0)
  Drixx
  —
  (5)
  pignash
  — Shinobi, Shiro, Nero Cain, Frozen Angel, Firebringer
  (0)
  Firebringer
  —
  (0)
  Shinobi
  —
  (0)
  Grib
  —
  (0)
  Frozen Angel
  —
  (0)
  Shiro
  —
  (0)
  Aj The Epic
  —
  (4)
  Titus
  — Davsto, Espeonage, Elyse, pistachi0n
  (0)
  Elyse
  —
  (4)
  pistachi0n
  — pignash, Grib, Titus, Dwlee99
  (1)
  Heat
  — Aj The Epic
  (0)
  Dwlee99
  —
  

(1)

[NOT VOTING]

— Heat

With

16

alive

, it takes

9

votes

to lynch.

[Shiro]

Passing to say

[Dwlee99]

Merry Lynchmas??

[Drixx]

Going to fucking do this proof again.

The game will begin when 13/18 confirm.[/strike]

Ok here is the important bit.

It is a widely accepted rule of modding that it is in poor taste for a game to be allowed to start without any scum in play. This is due to various concerns mostly regarding that scumhunting gets fucked with and quick lynches are assured of not hitting scum. Therefore when deciding at what point to allow the start of the game, mods count scum and pick the amount of scum +1. This ensures there is at least one scum confirmed at game start.

So combining this with the above quote means we have 6 scum. Having a 6 person scumteam in an 18 player game seems incredibly off balance-wise. How is this balanced out? By having them split across a second scum team. Two three man teams is much more balanced. A tad town sided I think but that is easily offset by some scum power. A much more believable setup.

It's not a proof of anything. "Widely accepted" and yet people who mod games (including myself having modded many games offsite) don't have any idea what you're talking about. It's not listed

anywhere

in the Wiki articles about good modding. And you are flat out contradicted by the fact that the newbie games are strictly regulated and start with 7/9 confirmed (I've never seen it be 8/9 and I regularly IC in the newbie queue), and newbie games have two scum. Your entire "proof" fails because the premises upon which it rests fail.

Ok so what does this mean for the game?

It means that the usual method of using lack of conviction in reads and other such tells that revolve around the fact that scum have to fake scumhunting are all out the window. Scum need to scumhunt too. It also changes other things. For example Shiro's 2335 just above is negated by asking how two people are meant to influence a wagon off someone in an 18 players game to the point where it stagnates a potential lynch target. What that tells me is that the friction is town sided, and so there is nothing usable from the observation. Pig might be scum, but it's not because of the difficulty the wagon is having getting off the ground.

Why do you want to force people to change how they scumhunt? Your entire agenda appears to be to force people to accept your weak setup spec and move out of their practiced ways of scum hunting. This is troubling, for obvious reasons.

There's a mix of 7 and 8, and there also shouldn't be.

There are nearly 1700 newbie games archived. Shall we pick 50 random numbers between 1,000 and 1670 and look at those games and see how often it is 7 and how often it is 8? Before even making the effort, I predict that there is a strong chance that we will find no newbie games in the random selection that require 8 confirmations to start, let alone anything even close to being considered common.

I also want to note that you have, as of post #2339, swapped from talking in absolutes to talking about what should or should not be. If you aren't even actually sure your speculation is for sure true, why are you pushing it when assuming wrongly could do huge damage to us?

I will be incredibly disappointed if a game this large was started without any scum in it. It's negligent modding.

Sorry but you're wrong. The game needed 2/3 of the players to confirm. For all you know, all the scum confirmed before the game started.

---

I'm trying to decide if you are scum trying to push this for town cred or to get people to abandon their usual strategies for finding scum ... or if you're sincere. I honestly cannot tell. You present like you are trying to logically prove something, but if you understood the basic rules of logic, you would already have concluded that you cannot know whether your premises are sound and therefore you cannot trust any conclusions. The only thing you can do is wait and see if evidence of multi-ball shows up, at which point you can say you were "right", although it would be more a case of a blind squirrel finding a nut in this case. Your logic is unsound and therefore your conclusion does not logically follow.

In other words ... if you end up being right, it will be because you got lucky and nothing more.

[Dwlee99]

rikt

[Dwlee99]

I just realized the confirmation is probably just 2/3 of players + 1. That's what newbies are. That's what this is.

[Dwlee99]

It seems to vary but most mods are around 2/3rds plus 1. Sooo yeaa

[Heat]

Also sounds a lot like trying to outguess the mod tbh.

Merry Christmas everyone!

[Firebringer]

Merry Lynchmas.

Everyone lynch Pignash for the ultimate present to him

[Grib]

Nah, let's lynch pistachi0n.

For Christmas, I want a Cop check on Frozen Angel. Pretty please.

[Frozen Angel]

hello! everyone. sorry for my awkward disappearance. I was in a very bad place in IRL.

I'm trying to catch up asap

[Frozen Angel]

Is there anything suspicious about me you wanna ask me about?

I'm here to answer them.

[Frozen Angel]

caught up.

my reads didn't change at all. I think I'm staying with pig - I might agree with pista , Nero seems a bit weird ,and dave posts contain no content.

[Grib]

Is there anything suspicious about me you wanna ask me about?

I'm here to answer them.

Could you go into detail on your read on Drixx?

[Grib]

Also, please answer the following questions with nothing less than complete and total honesty.

1) Are you mafia?
2) Are you okay with being Cop checked?

[Frozen Angel]

Also, please answer the following questions with nothing less than complete and total honesty.

1) Are you mafia?
2) Are you okay with being Cop checked?

since you asked respectably!

1) no!
2) well, I think that won't solve much because of my role .

[Frozen Angel]

Is there anything suspicious about me you wanna ask me about?

I'm here to answer them.

Could you go into detail on your read on Drixx?

drixx was a very town lean null slot in day 1 for me. when I saw titus brought up him in her town block I got shocked because I wasn't so sure about that. his attack on Elyse makes total sense to me. and his conversation with dave is not something I count scummy.

But I just don't like the amount of logic in his arguments. we're playing with humans here and I think viewing everything in a logical surface is a kind of ignoring some important facts.

his recent post answering to Esp makes me think there is something fishy going on here. that I will talk about it in my later posts.

[Grib]

Also, please answer the following questions with nothing less than complete and total honesty.

1) Are you mafia?
2) Are you okay with being Cop checked?

since you asked respectably!

1) no!
2) well, I think that won't solve much because of my role .

Okay, this is important.

Are you a Miller or an Ascetic?

[Frozen Angel]

Are you a Miller or an Ascetic?

Even-nights something.... I'm not sure if I must role claim or not.

[Grib]

If you are one of those roles, you should claim.

In fact, those are two roles that should almost always claim Day 1 so town PRs don't waste their abilities on them.

If you are not either of them, then don't claim.

[Frozen Angel]

I think I don't like to claim.

But I must insist in the wasting thing. I really appreciate day time interacting with me. night result on me won't tell you what you want.

[Grib]

:I

Alright then.

You said you might agree with a pistachi0n lynch. Why, and what's stopping you?

[Frozen Angel]

You said you might agree with a pistachi0n lynch. Why, and what's stopping you?

nothing is stopping me. both pig and pista have a shitty ISO.

pig has 41 posts , always defensive , he has no solid read. just town lean and some agreements on finding others scummy.

pista has 51 posts , always 1 line , throwing stuff without reasons , branching everywhere, never defended himself at all , his only single solid reads are Aj->scum and titus->town and he never tried for these reads.

so I'm happy with both wagons. prefered pig atm.

[Grib]

You gave more reasons for why pistachi0n is bad, so why do you prefer pig?

Also, pretty sure pistachi0n is scumreading Titus.

[Frozen Angel]

pista has 51 posts , always 1 line , throwing stuff without reasons , branching everywhere, never defended himself at all , his only single solid reads are Aj->scum and titus->

scum

and he never tried for these reads.

sorry fixed :/

I think both of them are equally bad. but at least pista is trying ... I don't know. why you think pista is a better option than pig?