NY 191: Denmark Mafia - Endgame

[Drixx]

What "facts" am I ignoring, FA?

If you're going to come at me, you better be prepared to back it up.

[pistachi0n]

Also, please answer the following questions with nothing less than complete and total honesty.

1) Are you mafia?
2) Are you okay with being Cop checked?

What's the point? Especially q1.

[Frozen Angel]

What "facts" am I ignoring, FA?

But I just don't like the amount of logic in his arguments. we're playing with humans here and I think viewing everything in a logical surface is a kind of ignoring some important facts.

I'm not a fan of full logical arguments. I think their never go deep enough to hunt the scum. they depends on the scum to slip and come to surface.

I think a combination of emotional and logical analyses are better

If you're going to come at me, you better be prepared to back it up.

what?!!! when I said I want to come at you?! your in my town lean list

[pistachi0n]

Drixx, people don't act logically. Not even you. If you're basing your reads off of what a perfectly rational agent would do, you're going to have a bad time.

[Titus]

Drixx, people don't act logically. Not even you. If you're basing your reads off of what a perfectly rational agent would do, you're going to have a bad time.

Wrong. I read the game the same way, but suppose each person comes at it a different way. Each person has a different set of information, and thus acts different. When someone is overly invested in protecting someone else, that sends up a red flag for me.

In Suikoden, Drixx and I had a lot of conflict, not because either was reading the game wrong but I lacked his knowledge that he was a mason. Masons are an achillies heel because they both look like scum because try know things they shouldn't.

Scum, on Day 2, tend to invest in defending buddies by refusing to talk about them. That's why I am posse off that I can't get a Dave wagon going or no one to discuss him at all.

Scum have basically been sitting on the sidelines and doing jackshit the entire time because the obvious town refuse to work with each other. (Reach out to Elyse).

Logical expectations are a good way to find scum. Emotions function as a backup.

[Titus]

What "facts" am I ignoring, FA?

But I just don't like the amount of logic in his arguments. we're playing with humans here and I think viewing everything in a logical surface is a kind of ignoring some important facts.

I'm not a fan of full logical arguments. I think their never go deep enough to hunt the scum. they depends on the scum to slip and come to surface.

I think a combination of emotional and logical analyses are better

If you're going to come at me, you better be prepared to back it up.

what?!!! when I said I want to come at you?! your in my town lean list

This post pings hard. Don't know why.

[Frozen Angel]

This post pings hard. Don't know why.

:/

[pistachi0n]

About scum refusing to discuss buddies and the Dave wagon--say Dave is scum. And you say nobody is discussing him, which adds to your scumread. But that means townies aren't discussing him either. Why do you think that is?

[Frozen Angel]

You know , better than anyone here that I'm an emotional player. and your throwing shades on me?

I think emotional analyses are not dumb and somehow , in some situations better approaches to solve the game. you want my examples?!

[Frozen Angel]

talking to titus ...

[Titus]

About scum refusing to discuss buddies and the Dave wagon--say Dave is scum. And you say nobody is discussing him, which adds to your scumread. But that means townies aren't discussing him either. Why do you think that is?

Because the town are demotivated. Hell conftown clearly isn't posting. I am doing all I can to get us to voe scum but even I see Dave's going to coast for another day with no content so I am stuck settling and compromising again.

If who we lynch today doesn't flip scum, I am one v one on Dave tomorrow.

[Dwlee99]

This game is pretty much dead.

[Frozen Angel]

I'm trying to decide if you are scum trying to push this for town cred or to get people to abandon their usual strategies for finding scum ... or if you're sincere. I honestly cannot tell. You present like you are trying to logically prove something, but if you understood the basic rules of logic, you would already have concluded that you cannot know whether your premises are sound and therefore you cannot trust any conclusions. The only thing you can do is wait and see if evidence of multi-ball shows up, at which point you can say you were "right", although it would be more a case of a blind squirrel finding a nut in this case. Your logic is unsound and therefore your conclusion does not logically follow.

In other words ... if you end up being right, it will be because you got lucky and nothing more.

Esp and shinobi buddied. It was more obvious than the day.

this post here makes me think Drixx knows Esp alignment as well. I have no Idea what I'm suggesting but this connection was weird. this was what I wanted to mention in post 2366

[Titus]

You know , better than anyone here that I'm an emotional player. and your throwing shades on me?

I think emotional analyses are not dumb and somehow , in some situations better approaches to solve the game. you want my examples?!

I am not saying they are dumb. They're just backups. Emotional reading tends to result in detection of high versus low emotional intelligence rather than scumfinding.

It does have better success in reading those emotionally based players but you'd hae to wagon them for the purposes of reading.

If both lead you to the conclusion someone is scum, tunnel.

Now, why are you fighting so hard on your method of scumreading and not getting your reads lynched?

[Titus]

I'm trying to decide if you are scum trying to push this for town cred or to get people to abandon their usual strategies for finding scum ... or if you're sincere. I honestly cannot tell. You present like you are trying to logically prove something, but if you understood the basic rules of logic, you would already have concluded that you cannot know whether your premises are sound and therefore you cannot trust any conclusions. The only thing you can do is wait and see if evidence of multi-ball shows up, at which point you can say you were "right", although it would be more a case of a blind squirrel finding a nut in this case. Your logic is unsound and therefore your conclusion does not logically follow.

In other words ... if you end up being right, it will be because you got lucky and nothing more.

Esp and shinobi buddied. It was more obvious than the day.

this post here makes me think Drixx knows Esp alignment as well. I have no Idea what I'm suggesting but this connection was weird. this was what I wanted to mention in post 2366

That post implies nothing of the sort. :/

[Frozen Angel]

talking a lot about he doesn't know about Esp alignment then suggesting that he was just lucky about knowing the multiball thing is weird.

plus I'm voting my read atm.

[Frozen Angel]

Why pista is more scummy than the pig?

[Frozen Angel]

I'm shadowy voting for both of them. But I can't see a priority here.

[Titus]

talking a lot about he doesn't know about Esp alignment then suggesting that he was just lucky about knowing the multiball thing is weird.

plus I'm voting my read atm.

No, Drixx said

if

this is multiball, then Epsy is lucky. Having shit invalid arguments but getting to the right answer to logical players is by definition, luck.

[Drixx]

What "facts" am I ignoring, FA?

But I just don't like the amount of logic in his arguments. we're playing with humans here and I think viewing everything in a logical surface is a kind of ignoring some important facts.

I'm not a fan of full logical arguments. I think their never go deep enough to hunt the scum. they depends on the scum to slip and come to surface.

I think a combination of emotional and logical analyses are better

If you're going to come at me, you better be prepared to back it up.

what?!!! when I said I want to come at you?! your in my town lean list

Drixx, people don't act logically. Not even you. If you're basing your reads off of what a perfectly rational agent would do, you're going to have a bad time.

Scum, by definition, have to put a false narrative into the game. Since they know the other scum (even in multi ball they know some of the other scum, so the point holds), they have to engage the game and basically tell a story. Generally scum will take the opportunity to plant seeds early in the game to give themselves places to go later on. They, in effect, foreshadow their moves. The thing is... as informed as scum are in terms of alignment, they cannot predict the various surprises that come up in a game. That's where my logical approach catches them. When scum have to adjust their narrative to account for something unexpected, they can slip and contradict their own narrative, and I've lost count of how many I've caught that way.

There's something to be said for pushing people to see how they react; however, unless you have a very clear notion of how scum will respond and how town will respond, and you have good reasons to believe your notions are accurate ... a lot of times all you do is get into TvT fights, since most people will react when provoked.

Why do you think I pushed Nero? His narrative is a lie. Despite a little white knighting on his behalf by others, you can look at him and Titus in ISO and clearly see him instigating. It's not even subtle or a matter of viewpoint. He clearly came in swinging and trying to goad her into a fight, and then he clearly tried to blame it on her and push her for what he instigated.

[Titus]

Why pista is more scummy than the pig?

Look at the wagoners on pistachion. All look town. Pistachion hasn't pushed any of his own scumreads at all. My scumreads defend him and hop onto (or were originally on) the opposing wagon. Given the amount that pistachion hasn't delivered, the resistance to lynch is astounding.

Pignash has content in short bursts. He gets attacked by my scumreads every time he shows up for trivial things, making it hard to contribute.

[Drixx]

Unvote

VOTE: Postachi0n

[Firebringer]

Look at the wagoners on pistachion. All look town. Pistachion hasn't pushed any of his own scumreads at all. My scumreads defend him and hop onto (or were originally on) the opposing wagon. Given the amount that pistachion hasn't delivered, the resistance to lynch is astounding.

So how is everyone on pistachion town again?

Dwlee yeah, Grib ehhh not solid on him.
Pignash? Explain how pignash is town.

Titus I am divided on you atm.

[Frozen Angel]

Pignash has content in short bursts. He gets attacked by my scumreads every time he shows up for trivial things, making it hard to contribute.

who are you talking about exactly?

[Titus]

Pignash has content in short bursts. He gets attacked by my scumreads every time he shows up for trivial things, making it hard to contribute.

who are you talking about exactly?

Pistachion. My bad there.