[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Karnage]

This sounds like it could be an open game. Would also be able to be run as a theme.

Thanks. I need to take this to the Open Setup Review thread.

[Karnage]

This sounds like it could be an open game. Would also be able to be run as a theme.

Thanks. I need to take this to the Open Setup Review thread.

Nevermind, looks like I need people to show enough interest in the setup before it can go there.

[callforjudgement]

I had posted this setup idea a while back but I think this is a much stronger version:

Docs and Blocks Mafia

• Mafia begins with THREE Mafia Goons
  
• Town begins with SEVEN Vanilla Townies
  
• Town is guaranteed to have THREE VT’s upgraded to a either a Doctor or a Roleblocker (2 of one, 1 one of the other)
  
• During pre-game, Mafia have 72 hours to upgrade up to TWO goons to 1-Shot Strongman. They may choose not to upgrade any.
  
• For each goon upgraded, TWO additional VTs will be upgraded to either a Doctor or a Roleblocker. (must be one of each)
  
• During pre-game, ALL Town players will receive Vanilla Townie role PMs. Once the Mafia has decided how many goons to upgrade, power role PM’s will be sent out.
  
• Town will not be notified how many goons the Mafia chose to upgrade.

Mod would "flip a coin" to decide if its 2 Docs and 1 RB or 1 Doc and 2 RBs to start. Town is guaranteed 1-4 Docs, 1-4 RBs and could have 0-4 VT's

I suspect this is highly scumsided at the moment. If I'm making a 7:3 nightless setup, I typically give an advantage to town to compensate for their numerical disadvantage, i.e. I think 7:3 mountainous nightless is scumsided. Town's abilities here are entirely kill-stopping, thus they're in a worse position than they would be in a 7:3 mountainous nightless; Mafia could no-kill every night and still have the advantage in the setup, and they get a further advantage from the possibility that they might get a kill.

A separate problem is that town gain basically no information from a successful kill; if Mafia upgrade two goons, then that gives them two kills that town can't stop, and town have no way to know who made them via night actions. This means that by day 3, after two mislynches, Mafia will have won (lynch + kill + lynch + kill = 4 dead townies, now it's 3:3). So in the two-upgrades situation, town's power roles are actually entirely pointless unless they manage to lynch scum blind on day 1 or 2. This can happen but it's rare (less than 50% in my experience).

If I wanted to give this a shot which (if any) queue could I try it in?

Mini Theme would be easiest, given the rather abNormal mechanics; you could probably spin a bunch of flavour around it.

Open would also be possible but you'd need to pass a review in the Open Setup Reviews thread first, and I'm not sure it'd pass like that.

To be honest, I think it's worth seeing if you can rebalance the game to work as a 7:2 or 6:2 and make it a micro. Come to think of it, the setup as listed might well be scumsided even at 7:2 (if scum upgrade both goons, the town need to lynch correctly with no help from power roles on day 1, 2, or 3 to avoid losing, and the only information they'll have from claims is that the scum probably won't both claim the same thing). I don't think it's hugely off-balance as a 7:2, although the details might well need tweaking.

[Karnage]

those are great points. thanks. I'll see if I can rework it

[Karnage]

@callforjudgement, what if I make it 2 mafia vs 7 town. 4 townies are randomly assigned to be a doctor or a roleblocker (can be 4 docs and no blocks, 4 blocks and no docs, or anywhere in between). mafia will be told how many of each to give them options for fake claiming.

mafia can upgrade one goon to 1 shot strongman but then town gains a cop.

I guess the biggest problem is when I though of this I was thinking about how funny it would be to see town blocking themselves thus preventing block or doc that would have stopped a kill so perhaps its inherently scum-sided

[callforjudgement]

I haven't thought about it in detail, but have a feeling that the new setup is townsided (I am far from certain, though). Perhaps it isn't, on the basis that if a kill doesn't go through, it's likely to be highly unclear why. I can see town trying to attempt a breaking strategy involving cross-protection, but there's enough uncertainty in the setup that I'd expect the attempt to fail.

[RedCoyote]

That's The One!

2 Mafia Goons
1 Mafia Roleblocker

VS

1 Bodyguard
9 VTs

• Bodyguard and Roleblocker may use their powers every night.
  
• At the end of the each day phase, one VT is selected at random to be "The One".
  
• All votes are nullified except for The One, whomever The One is voting is lynched.

I love the risk/reward with a BG that pretty much knows where to protect every night. The question isn't which player to protect, but

if

they should protect. Additionally, the RB adds a slight twist of potential advantage to the scum team while not really disadvantaging the town. That said, the BG is really the star of the show. Usually a BG is nothing but cannon fodder in most setups, so trying to remove that was what I was going for.

Yes, the player that becomes The One effectively becomes an IC.

[pisskop]

So every day somebody is confirmed (VT) town. And the BG has to decide whom to keep? Its shoehorning scum into restrictive kills.

Additionally, can the same VT get 'The Oned' twice? And a single bad roll of the dice will undo a lot of work from the scum.


What if a single

Vanilla

player got 'Oned'. Goon or VT. Instead of confirming them town, confirm their vanilla status.

[RedCoyote]

BG doesn't have to. He may. I also don't think it necessarily restricts the scum because it may confirm a VT that is actively hurting the town, you know? And in such a scenario the scum may decide to leave that person alive. Or maybe that VT is right on and the scum still decides to leave them alive to cause WIFOM. etc

Yes, a VT could theoretically be The One twice.

You think maybe give the town additional power? Or maybe just do The One thing for the first day phase or two?

[BBmolla]

Cowboys and Mafia

12 Players

1 Mafia Quickfoot
1 Mafia Sabateur
2 Mafia Goons

1 Town Sabateur
7 Vanilla Townies

• There are no lynches.
  
• Instead after each day the mafia submit a turn order for the players.
  
• The list is publicly posted
  
• Each day everyone can perform one action:
  Shoot
  or
  Dodge
  
  
• The Quickfoot may perform two. These may both be done on his turn, or one may be done at the end of the round (Not both). If he does not wish to action again, he must simply private message the mod "No Action." If he shoots at the end it must be public.
  
• On a player's turn, they either
  Shoot: PLAYER
  or
  No Action
  .
  
• Once a player is shot, if they have an action they may choose to
  Dodge
  . If they don't want to Dodge, they simply type
  No Action
  .
  
• A shot player who doesn't dodge and who was shot with a functional gun will die.
  
• The Sabateur submits a player name to the mod after every day. That player's gun will fail to shoot the following day.

[callforjudgement]

If the scum just simply dodge every day, is there any way to get rid of them?

[BBmolla]

If the scum just simply dodge every day, is there any way to get rid of them?

If multiple people shoot them. They can only use one action per day, sans the quickfoot.

Quickfoot might be a bit broken though. Might be cleaner just to get rid of him.

[Bicephalous Bob]

cowboys and cowards

both the quickfoot and the sabbaticaliteurs detract from the core idea imo

[JasonWazza]

If the scum just simply dodge every day, is there any way to get rid of them?

If multiple people shoot them. They can only use one action per day, sans the quickfoot.

Quickfoot might be a bit broken though. Might be cleaner just to get rid of him.

Quickfoot isn't broken unless he can privately dodge, as if he dodge's twice in thread, then he is clearly the quickfoot.

(This is assuming it's "his turn" when he is shot at)

If he can dodge in private and it works like a sabotaged gun, then he'd be fairly well hidden.

However after a certain point, this game becomes unwinnable.

First off assuming the quickfoot doesn't die Mafia have to be winning at 5 players (quickshot can shoot twice, meaning he is essentially a 5th person, and 5v5 becomes shoot and dodge on both sides.)

And also it's so much easier for town to be killed then it is for Mafia to be killed (because Mafia submit the list, they more or less have a huge amount of control over who actually gets to shoot.)

I feel like this is fairly scum sided.

[BBmolla]

cowboys and cowards

both the quickfoot and the sabbaticaliteurs detract from the core idea imo

I guess with sabs I was trying to come up with a way for a player to choose not to dodge

And then quick foot to rid of any obvious town.

[BBmolla]

cowboys and cowards

both the quickfoot and the sabbaticaliteurs detract from the core idea imo

In regards to the Cowboys and cowards part, is that a name suggestion? Cause it's better than mine.

[BBmolla]

Let's simplify it for now.

Cowboys and Cowards

12 Players

4 Mafia Goons

8 Vanilla Townies

• There are no lynches.
  
• Pregame, the Mafia determines a turn order list.
  
• The list is publicly posted
  
• Every player who dies submits a new turn order list upon death. The new list is the one submitted by the last person to die in a day. It will be posted and take effect in the following day.
  
• Each day everyone can perform one action:
  Shoot
  or
  Dodge
  
  
• On a player's turn, they either
  Shoot: PLAYER
  or
  No Action
  .
  
• Players have 24 hours to choose an action before it defaults to
  No Action
  .
  
• Once a player is shot, if they have an action they may choose to
  Dodge
  . If they don't want to Dodge, they simply type
  No Action
  . Players have 24 hours to choose a response before it defaults to
  No Action
  .
  
• A shot player who doesn't dodge will die.

[Bicephalous Bob]

I guess with sabs I was trying to come up with a way for a player to choose not to dodge

maybe allow people to shoot when they're shot? like:

Cowboys and Cowards

12 Players

4 Mafia Goons

8 Vanilla Townies

• There are no lynches.
  
• Pregame, the Mafia determines a turn order list.
  
• The list is publicly posted
  
• Every player who dies submits a new turn order list upon death. The new list is the one submitted by the last person to die in a day. It will be posted and take effect in the following day.
  
• Each day everyone can perform one action:
  Shoot
  or
  Dodge
  
  
• On a player's turn, they either
  Shoot: PLAYER
  or
  No Action
  .
  
• Players have 24 hours to choose an action before it defaults to
  No Action
  .
  
• If a shot player has yet to use their action, they will jump to the next spot on the turn order list, giving them 24 hours to choose a response before it defaults to
  No Action
  .
  
• A shot player whose turn is over and who didn't dodge will die, as well as any player who is shot twice in one day.

[BBmolla]

Ooh. Yes I like that.

[BBmolla]

BUT

You need to make it so that Mafia can only Dodge in response. Otherwise they all have a vengekill. Which is debateably broken.

Edit: It works fine because if a person "confirms" themselves as town by shooting in response, they're dead anyway.

[Sméagol]

I'm in the queue for a mini, but I think I'd also like to run a micro, but haven't decided what set-up I want to use..

Are people interested in the following set-up, which I ran off-site (but with people who are not nearly as hardcore as people here are):

High risk, high reward

- Mountainous, no individual roles.
- Everyone, including mafia, is a (unrestricted) vigilante.
- The mafia are not in a team. They have the same win condition, but don't know eachother, and can't communicate.
- Voting as usual.
- For a micro I'd probably go 6-3 (it's more difficult for the mafia), and 5-2 day- night cycles, although I have no preference for the latter.

The idea is that the mafia have more opportunities to kill townies off, but on the other hand also risk killing eachother off. All players need to scumhunt, but with different motivations..
Was considering this for a marathon weekend, but I was wondering if there was any interest to run this as a micro. I think it works better with more people (a night 1 game over is a serious possibility), but outside of marathon, I think I'll start small while gaging interest. Otherwise I'll look at my other ideas.

[MarioManiac4]

- Everyone, including mafia, is a (unrestricted) vigilante.

you should probably clarify this because sooner or later someone's gonna try to vig everyone.

[Sméagol]

I believe with similar games like this people here are inclined to limit the shots. They aren't limited, everyone can shoot every night, they have to decide each night if their reads are strong enough to act upon.. Hence the title.

[Something_Smart]

The Blind Leading The Blind

2 Mafia Goons
1 Town Supersaint
1 Town 1-Shot Vigilante
5 Vanilla Townies

All town-aligned players know who the Supersaint is (or maybe not the vig if this is too townsided).

[Bicephalous Bob]

all townies crumb the identity of the supersaint in their first few posts, someone is appointed to claim the SS's identity (if they fail they're lynched)

then all players out their crumbs

everyone without a credible crumb gets lynched