Newbie 1687 (Game Over)

[literallypam]

I'd like to vote to guttsu because I'm confirmed town to me, but I just don't think he's scum. Lurking hardcore after voting someone for lurking seems more like bad town than mafia.

[Rufus Delorian]

I wanna see literallypam flip tonight if I'm completely honest. It'll answer a few questions about who is sided with who ect. we all agree that pam out of all is most likely scum?? We have under 5 days to decide who we're gonna lynch, so lets weigh up our options and share what reads we have. Obviously we are gonna come up with a few null reads but that's better than nothing. Oh the drawbacks of a slow moving game such as this and 2 non noncontributing people being replaced this late in day 1.

It wouldn't be my preference, but if nothing changes then I can probably change my vote and settle for a literallypam lynch...can you lay out the case against them as you see it?

[kagesong]

ok, i need to know what ISO means. also, i am amused that I am being teamed with either Reubus or

Drixx

as scum, as they are

my more confident town reads.

Emphasis added because of next quote.

If you look next to the post number of someone's post, there's a link in parenthesis that looks like this: (ISO). Clicking that link will let you view all the posts by a player. You can also use the menu at the bottom of the page to add up to three players to read isolated, which can be very helpful if you need to see interactions in context.

Reubus
Well, read his on me, we seem to be thinking the same. I think if we're using the same logic, I can be comfortable that we're on the same side.

Chipmunk
Not suspicious other than trying to tag me.

Drixx
Not sure

Literallpam
seems pretty scummy as i've said. trying too hard to prove not scum

Rufus
Same as Literallypam

Kirroha
because of the detective work either town or REALLY good scum. probably town

There's definitely something inconsistent in your thinking if you can make those two posts (I emphasized the part that changed for no apparent reason in the space of 4 minutes) so closely together. What's up with that?

Fair statement, let me qualify please. Drixx has done nothing at all which seems scummy, which obviously sends toward town. Every one else, myself included, has come off at some point as scummy. Therefore, while I have no evidence either way, Drixx automatically becomes a confident town read to me, because there is NOTHING for me to base a scum read off of.

[kagesong]

I wanna see literallypam flip tonight if I'm completely honest. It'll answer a few questions about who is sided with who ect. we all agree that pam out of all is most likely scum?? We have under 5 days to decide who we're gonna lynch, so lets weigh up our options and share what reads we have. Obviously we are gonna come up with a few null reads but that's better than nothing. Oh the drawbacks of a slow moving game such as this and 2 non noncontributing people being replaced this late in day 1.

It wouldn't be my preference, but if nothing changes then I can probably change my vote and settle for a literallypam lynch...can you lay out the case against them as you see it?

I could change my vote from Rufus, with a competent reason. Though I do believe they are both scum .

[literallypam]

IMO Drixx spiking the football and say, "YOURE CAUGHT SCUM" just because I was careless when reading through the first day was pretty forced and pre-emptive. Rufus's fos on me seemed much more legitimate.

[Drixx]

IMO Drixx spiking the football and say, "YOURE CAUGHT SCUM" just because I was careless when reading through the first day was pretty forced and pre-emptive. Rufus's fos on me seemed much more legitimate.

More misrepresentation. You made a statement you have refused to ever substantiate. Your statement said that multiple people wanted to vote me and that they were afraid to do so. I have asked you repeatedly to quote the posts and show what made you think that. You have refused repeatedly to answer direct questions aimed at you, and now you are trying to excuse yourself and say you were "careless". You don't make statements like "people want to vote for X player but are scared" because you read carelessly. You can't produce one single quote to show what made you think that, and nobody has come forward to say they felt that way.

And to top it off you are throwing shade on me by analogizing my read of you as scum as some kind of premature celebration. You have repeatedly refused to explain or back up your claims, repeatedly ignored direct and simple questions from more than just me, and now you are trying to discredit me. Of course ... the whole situation started with you trying to discredit me when you said that people (plural) wanted to vote me but were "scared" to do so, which was a direct attack on me and painted me as somehow intimidating people or something. The situation began with you going after my credibility, and all throughout the day you have refused to explain yourself in any meaningful way, ignored direct questions, and now you're back to discrediting.

So ... the question to ask is Cui bono?

You appear to be caught scum and this post by you is an encapsulation of all the reasons why I'm reading you as such.

[FrogSC2]

Hi all! I'm officially replaced in for Guttsa! I'll catch up tonight.

A few initial thoughts/questions:
1. What are all of your experience levels in mafia/werewolf type games?
2. How do you handle pressure?
3. I see some reads lists so far, can everyone please post your reads? (top 3 town reads, top 3 scum reads, +extras leaning slight town or scum accordingly. NO NULLS.)
4. Are you analytical players or mechanical players?

I'll answer first in fairness:
1. I have 5 years of mafia experience with 3 years of forum mafia experience across sites
2. I either attack it head on, or depending on the timing (especially in F5), disregard it entirely and remain focused on demanding unanswered questions from scum reads.
3. I will get to this tonight or tomorrow with abbreviated ISOs.
4. I am an analytical player for the first 3 days regarding post content, and become much more mechanical after D3 with VCA and P2P interactions

Looking forward to playing with you all!

[PantherPunt]

Town here. I'm the new hawkleader.

Don't have time to dive into this until tomorrow.

[PantherPunt]

lol Frog's here. quite a coincidence.

interesting playstyle...hard to read imo. ok glgl see ya'll tomorrow

[FrogSC2]

lol Frog's here. quite a coincidence.

interesting playstyle...hard to read imo. ok glgl see ya'll tomorrow

Lol. Hey Panther!

Does mafia share day and night chat in this game variant? Didn't see it in the OP.

[PantherPunt]

lol Frog's here. quite a coincidence.

interesting playstyle...hard to read imo. ok glgl see ya'll tomorrow

Lol. Hey Panther!

Does mafia share day and night chat in this game variant? Didn't see it in the OP.

It used to be just night chat. Then they were trial running daytalk for scum, but not sure if that trial period has ended yet.

I wish I could hard clear you for that question alone, but I know you're a crafty soab. So I can't.

[PrivateI]

Per the role pms in the opening posts, scum will have daytalk for this game.

[notachipmunk]

Frog's questions:

1. What are all of your experience levels in mafia/werewolf type games?
This is my first game on any site. Technically I signed up for a marathon game on here once but it got cancelled before it started =/

2. How do you handle pressure?
I can't say how I handle it in mafia games because I have no exp. Based off of my irl pressure handling, I'm not very forward, as in I don't like to cause conflict nor involve myself in it, and if i have to or get bored enough to face pressure, results may vary!

3. I see some reads lists so far, can everyone please post your reads? (top 3 town reads, top 3 scum reads, +extras leaning slight town or scum accordingly. NO NULLS.)
With that setup of 3 and 3 there couldn't be any extras for slights really unless you want us to include our reads of the 2 people you and Panther replaced (one of which posted like hi and that was it). I will do so after I finish homework tonight though!

4. Are you analytical players or mechanical players?
Again no exp prior to this so it's hard to say, but I'm not a very analytical person in general, and I'm not sure what being a mechanical player means. Whatever can be classified as going on this feels off or this person seems ok- if that's mechanical then that!

[FrogSC2]

lol Frog's here. quite a coincidence.

interesting playstyle...hard to read imo. ok glgl see ya'll tomorrow

Lol. Hey Panther!

Does mafia share day and night chat in this game variant? Didn't see it in the OP.

It used to be just night chat. Then they were trial running daytalk for scum, but not sure if that trial period has ended yet.

I wish I could hard clear you for that question alone, but I know you're a crafty soab. So I can't.

I've already hardcleared someone in this game for similar reasons, you'll pick up on it. I'm keeping it close for now.

I asked in the queue but because the OP didn't mention it I wasn't sure if I'd be able to clear a player or not. Now I know I can.

Honestly, I don't want to be hardcleared this early. It'd be nice to play a little longer than N1.

[Rufus Delorian]

Hi new people, good to have replacements in. I'll hold off on any vote changing until you've had a fresh look through, might come up with something interesting.

First game so don't know about pressure in mafia game. Not sure what mechanical vs analytical means. Posted reads just before you guys joined.

[PrivateI]

Per the role pms in the opening posts, scum will have daytalk for this game.

Oh my gosh, this was completely inadvertent. I've been keeping up with this game, and didn't even realize it wasn't my own.

Mod, please delete both this post and the one quoted.

[FrogSC2]

Frog's questions:

1. What are all of your experience levels in mafia/werewolf type games?
This is my first game on any site. Technically I signed up for a marathon game on here once but it got cancelled before it started =/

2. How do you handle pressure?
I can't say how I handle it in mafia games because I have no exp. Based off of my irl pressure handling, I'm not very forward, as in I don't like to cause conflict nor involve myself in it, and if i have to or get bored enough to face pressure, results may vary!

3. I see some reads lists so far, can everyone please post your reads? (top 3 town reads, top 3 scum reads, +extras leaning slight town or scum accordingly. NO NULLS.)
With that setup of 3 and 3 there couldn't be any extras for slights really unless you want us to include our reads of the 2 people you and Panther replaced (one of which posted like hi and that was it). I will do so after I finish homework tonight though!

4. Are you analytical players or mechanical players?
Again no exp prior to this so it's hard to say, but I'm not a very analytical person in general, and I'm not sure what being a mechanical player means. Whatever can be classified as going on this feels off or this person seems ok- if that's mechanical then that!

KK Thanks!

The experience question is important so players can know what plays they can make with you, whether it's bussing a teammate, lynchbaiting a town, decoying for you, double decoying etc.

The importance extends beyond that so that players know how to categorize you as a player.

These are a few examples Yayap posted on my home site:

Meta for me is more of a level system...


Level 1: person is straight and has no double meanings.. what he says is what he means.

Level 2: person lies all the time.. what he says doesn't carry much weight.

Level 3: person lies but has a purpose to his lies.. like claiming false feedback. (claiming sheriff reads on someone to sway sheep)

Level 4: person is info hoarder.. the people who don't share what they really think, but tend to lead others into a train of thought for their own purposes. (usually dumping their findings all at once when they think they have found scum instead of progressive)

Level 5: decoy person.. someone who will convey info that someone else wants to share but is a high priority target for scum. Like a citizen claiming to be jailor to relay info the jailor told him.

Level 6: decoy lvl2 person.. similar to Level 5 but without direct contact with the other person. This is mostly analyzers who read between the lines and catch on to something that someone is trying to silently leak out without out most people seeing it.

Level 7: double/triple/etc meaning person (cpt WIFOM).. someone who posts one thing that can mean multiple things depending on how it is read.


When I take meta into account, I usually place a player into one of those levels and also determine what level he can read. For example, if someone knows how to reads a lvl5 decoy person, claims a role that I know can't fit in, I won't press the issue even though I know he lied, because he is most likely to be covering/backing up someone else (to which I usually go and find). But if someone of a lvl 1 says the same thing, I might go after him like no tomorrow.

[FrogSC2]

Hi new people, good to have replacements in. I'll hold off on any vote changing until you've had a fresh look through, might come up with something interesting.

First game so don't know about pressure in mafia game. Not sure what mechanical vs analytical means. Posted reads just before you guys joined.

Howdy Batman,

I'm coming up on post 53.

I'll have some questions for you in a couple of hours once I'm ready.

This is where I'm at with you at the moment.

I can see you're an inexperienced player, you respond to pressure very easily twice, sometimes when it's not necessary, with poor but fair reasoning, and you've defended Drixx and suspected the early Drixx train votes. You've very aware of the voting atmosphere and act on it.

For now, what I'm curious to see, is whether you decided to pursue your theory further on those early voters on Drixx in the first 2 pages. Have you followed how those players have acted and played since your post:

I think Kirroha and Drixx each have 3 votes on them, would they count as bandwagons?

I'm sticking with my vote, I'd expect the IC to be most experienced at finding mafia so they'd want rid of him, putting a third vote on them is the most suspicious thing I've seen (not really seen much suspicious yet)

I'm asking because already I've noticed something very off going along with your theory and I'm wondering if you can spot the same thing.

[Rufus Delorian]

You'll have seen I'm on GMT then. I'm going to get sleep pretty soon, will see what answers I can give tomorrow, probably on lunch break.

My thoughts have changed since that quote, you'll see that though.

[kagesong]

Hi all! I'm officially replaced in for Guttsa! I'll catch up tonight.

A few initial thoughts/questions:
1. What are all of your experience levels in mafia/werewolf type games?Super Newbie
2. How do you handle pressure?WIFOM
3. I see some reads lists so far, can everyone please post your reads? (top 3 town reads, top 3 scum reads, +extras leaning slight town or scum accordingly. NO NULLS.)you will see my list, best i can generate thus far
4. Are you analytical players or mechanical players?WIFOM

BTW, I would love a similar analysis as you gave Rufus, who is one of my 2 scum reads.



Looking forward to playing with you all!

[FrogSC2]

Hi all! I'm officially replaced in for Guttsa! I'll catch up tonight.

A few initial thoughts/questions:
1. What are all of your experience levels in mafia/werewolf type games?Super Newbie
2. How do you handle pressure?WIFOM
3. I see some reads lists so far, can everyone please post your reads? (top 3 town reads, top 3 scum reads, +extras leaning slight town or scum accordingly. NO NULLS.)you will see my list, best i can generate thus far
4. Are you analytical players or mechanical players?WIFOM

BTW, I would love a similar analysis as you gave Rufus, who is one of my 2 scum reads.



Looking forward to playing with you all!

Hi there!

I'm on post #105

I'll eventually post your ISO, but maybe not today. I've noticed you have the potential to be an incredible tone reader and I think you're getting way too bogged down in WIFOM. I don't see more reason to comment on your play because you're a strong town read for me.

[Drixx]

Welcome to the replacements. I am a little confused why FrogSC2 wants to throw in a 2nd RQS instead of catching up and engaging with the game afterwards, but I'll be his huckleberry.

1. What are all of your experience levels in mafia/werewolf type games?

I first played the game as a live party game as a teenager. I started playing it on another site about a decade ago and I read posts and wiki articles on this site for a couple years before I joined about 15 months ago. I guess you could say extensive.

2. How do you handle pressure?

I take things as they come. I try not to get stuck in any ruts, so there's not really a way to answer this.

3. I see some reads lists so far, can everyone please post your reads? (top 3 town reads, top 3 scum reads, +extras leaning slight town or scum accordingly. NO NULLS.)

I don't really post reads lists; especially when its demanded. What I

do

give is my thoughts on folks, as I interact with them. Occasionally I'll make a post with thoughts on several or even all players, but you won't get any kind of ordered list from me. I find that kind of approach to constrict my thinking and cause me to either fall into confbias or fail to re-assess and miss scum as a result.

4. Are you analytical players or mechanical players?

I am a rational player. I don't buy into the probabilistic side of VCA because even with a large sample size analyzed, the statistical results of any large scale probability study cannot be used predicatively in individual situations. The psychological observations of VCA have some merit, but as often as not I've seen players just use VCA as an excuse to feed confirmation bias. It's much more important to look at the context of votes and actions than just the changes out of context, in my opinion.

As a note, I wanted to use a color to show my answers clearly, but I didn't want to put these answers in my IC color. This isn't the sort of thing the IC color is meant for.

[FrogSC2]

Welcome to the replacements. I am a little confused why FrogSC2 wants to throw in a 2nd RQS instead of catching up and engaging with the game afterwards, but I'll be his huckleberry.

1. What are all of your experience levels in mafia/werewolf type games?

I first played the game as a live party game as a teenager. I started playing it on another site about a decade ago and I read posts and wiki articles on this site for a couple years before I joined about 15 months ago. I guess you could say extensive.

2. How do you handle pressure?

I take things as they come. I try not to get stuck in any ruts, so there's not really a way to answer this.

3. I see some reads lists so far, can everyone please post your reads? (top 3 town reads, top 3 scum reads, +extras leaning slight town or scum accordingly. NO NULLS.)

I don't really post reads lists; especially when its demanded. What I

do

give is my thoughts on folks, as I interact with them. Occasionally I'll make a post with thoughts on several or even all players, but you won't get any kind of ordered list from me. I find that kind of approach to constrict my thinking and cause me to either fall into confbias or fail to re-assess and miss scum as a result.

4. Are you analytical players or mechanical players?

I am a rational player. I don't buy into the probabilistic side of VCA because even with a large sample size analyzed, the statistical results of any large scale probability study cannot be used predicatively in individual situations. The psychological observations of VCA have some merit, but as often as not I've seen players just use VCA as an excuse to feed confirmation bias. It's much more important to look at the context of votes and actions than just the changes out of context, in my opinion.

As a note, I wanted to use a color to show my answers clearly, but I didn't want to put these answers in my IC color. This isn't the sort of thing the IC color is meant for.

Howdy Drixx, rest assured, I am very caught up. I'm on post #143.

While I'm catching up on this low content game I wanted basis for the players I would be playing with. These aren't random questions about hobbies and interests. They're foundational questions. Not unlike you asking literallypam what his experience level was. We're in agreement in asking the same questions, but you disagree with my asking the questions?

I've noticed with you in particular that your tunnelvision has inhibited the development of this game. Perhaps purposefully. I've seen no drive for content from you other than repetition of questions to literallypam that was apparent he either was unwilling or unable to answer. You had 2 options. Go for the lynch or play around it. Instead of playing it slow and developing more content from and around Pam before the inevitable lynch, you pretty much killed the day. Not only that, you haven't really even commented on the other players. I'm very skeptical of this null content playstyle. If you want to be purposefully unreadable, that's your prerogative, but you're not putting town in a beneficial situation down the road if you are town.

[FrogSC2]

I hope that didn't sound too hostile, it's a suggestion to lead town with directed questions towards more players. I will be doing this shortly.

[FrogSC2]

Actually, since we're currently actively engaged and I'm openly claiming you're in a tunnel vision,

@Drixx

I'd like to know your thought process on Kirroha's early voting pattern and motivations. Please pay close attention to Post #39 from Rufus, Post #40 from Kirroha, and the content before that.

I'd also like for your alignment reads based on this.

If you feel there is more to Kirroha than this, then please elaborate why that is more alignment telling than what I am suggesting.

I'd like to understand how you think and how you interpret motivations.