Newbie 1687 (Game Over)

[PantherPunt]

VOTE: Drixx

I'm not going on much more than holy shit that wall of text.

And also because it seems like everyone wants a Drixx lynch but everyone who hasn't voted is scared they'll look bad jumping on now.

I saw Drixx ask you to point out where you got this, and you could not. This is a scum tell. Scum have to manufacture reasons for things because they aren't actually trying to solve things. I don't want to re-harp on this a whole lot, but your responses to Drixx did not make me feel better.

There are other things that haven't been touched on that I think are a bad look as well, so I want to focus more on those now:

I throw out some votes and see how people react to them. That's the game as far as I know. It really isn't very important who gets lynched today anyway, because we're all just bullshiting right now.
[snip]

Rufus is my current townread at the moment, he seems to be most actively calling out what he sees are scumtells.

You say that you throw votes out to see how people react to them.
You later say that Rubeus (despite accidentally saying Rufus) is a townread because he seems to be most actively calling out what he sees are scumtells.

From my viewpoint, Rubeus called out the same scumtells on you that Drixx did.

So how do you give Rubeus a townread, but not give Drixx a townread for the same action?

It doesn't seem like you are applying the same logic to all players when "seeing how people react to votes."
[also, I couldn't disagree more strongly that it isn't important who gets lynched today. I struggle to see this viewpoint coming from a tonwie]

Yeah because being the 3rd or 4th person looks scummy, so I was just pre-empting the critcism, although apparently I did so badly. And if Drixx IS mafia, he'll probably outplay the village pretty well.

Nobody likes to be the 3rd vote on anyone. You know that

Here's a big problem for me. Saying that being the 3rd or 4th person on a wagon looks scummy comes from a mindset of looking at votes after a mislynch.

Which means you are saying this with the assumption that Drixx, if lynched, will reveal as town.

If you thought he was mafia, then you wouldn't be concerned about your place on the wagon and would be looking for town points for giving the wagon traction.

My secondary FOS is Rufus, because I think I do look extremely scummy right now, he seems to be playing the middle ground.

So you agree you look scummy? But you still think Drixx is scum for pushing you? This does not compute.

IMO Drixx spiking the football and say, "YOURE CAUGHT SCUM" just because I was careless when reading through the first day was pretty forced and pre-emptive. Rufus's fos on me seemed much more legitimate.

Again, apparently mixing up the names of Rufus and Rubeus. How did Rubeus's suspicion of you differ from Drixx's? This is what makes no sense if I'm trying to understand your perspective in evaluating those pushing you.

[PantherPunt]

Both Rufus and kagesong feel like a slight town lean at this point in time.

Hi kirroha.

Can you elaborate just a bit on these town leans? i.e. can you point to what specifically you like out of them?

Also, I find it a bit odd that you haven't weighed in with any thoughts on Drixx or literallypam. A significant amount of thread content has revolved around their back-and-forth. I have to imagine you have alignment opinions on each of them, and I'd like to know what those are and why.

[PantherPunt]

I agree with notachipmunk, even though Kagesong and Literallypam both seem scummy to me, I doubt they're a team.

What did you see that made you think they are likely not both mafia-aligned?

I went back over Kagesong's posts and I'm more convinced now:

43, 58, 61, 99, 127 for

assuming some kind of tricky lies are afoot

, seems like the mindset scum would be in
54 for enjoyment of Psychological warfare (seems scummy to me)

99 (again) working out nightkills, the others are more tone, this one seems more solid to me: from the previous posts, it's clear the Kagesong likes using this WIFOM reasoning...

If he's scum, he's putting out a name that he knows isn't going to get NKd, he's distracting attention and then he'll probably kill me and say "Why would I kill the guy who's pushing for my lynch? It's too obvious so it can't be me, besides, I already pointed out who the NK should logically be."

If he's town, why would he think scum want Guttsa dead? Guttsa didn't say anything of note other than a counter-accusation against Kirroha, the suggestion that scum should night kill Guttsa came out of nowhere.

In my experience, the emphasized part above tends to indicate a town-mindset. Town tend to be inherently paranoid rather than trusting. I just don't think it's good justification for scumminess with regard to kage.

Since I think Kagesong is scum, and a team with Literallypam is unlikely, I don't think Literallypam is scum, despite sounding scummy.

Why don't you think literallypam is scum? What have you read from them that makes you think they are more likely to be town than scum?

I doubt Hawkleader is scum...don't know how things go in general here but I'd guess that scum newbies would be less likely to drop out than townies.

While I can confirm you are correct, this is terrible reasoning to read someone as town. And I'm struggling with believing you actually believe it. Why do you think that?

[PantherPunt]

going to shelf it for a bit because there's quite a lot for people to respond to.

VOTE: literallypam

L-2

[Rufus Delorian]

I had to go back and recount the Drixx votes, can't believe I miscounted, but you're right.

As to assuming the IC is town...yeah, I did kind of assume that, newbie mistake I guess, has already been corrected.

Regarding Kagesong, I assume scum would be more paranoid, they have to lie constantly and worry about how their votes might give them away, I just have to tell truth & that shouldn't give scumreads.

About literallypam, I think scum would defend themselves more vigorously...especially if they can discuss strategy with their partner.

That links into my terrible reasoning about Hawkleader...it could be me projecting...I kinda wanted to be scum because it seems like it would be the more fun side so I'd expect newbies who draw scum to be more engaged.

I accept I might be completely misreading things, if we lynch Literallypam and they flip scum then I'll have to toss out all my reads...and maybe get lynched for going against it.

[PantherPunt]

I had to go back and recount the Drixx votes, can't believe I miscounted, but you're right.

As to assuming the IC is town...yeah, I did kind of assume that, newbie mistake I guess, has already been corrected.

Regarding Kagesong, I assume scum would be more paranoid, they have to lie constantly and worry about how their votes might give them away, I just have to tell truth & that shouldn't give scumreads.

About literallypam, I think scum would defend themselves more vigorously...especially if they can discuss strategy with their partner.

That links into my terrible reasoning about Hawkleader...it could be me projecting...I kinda wanted to be scum because it seems like it would be the more fun side so I'd expect newbies who draw scum to be more engaged.

I accept I might be completely misreading things, if we lynch Literallypam and they flip scum then I'll have to toss out all my reads...and maybe get lynched for going against it.

Thanks for your answers.

How would you have expected scum!pam (notation meaning if pam were scum) to more vigorously defend himself?

Also, one thing you didn't touch on... What makes you think pam and kage aren't likely teamed?

[notachipmunk]

Does anyone see what Frog is saying about kagesong being cleared from some of his posts? I want to see for myself what it is and if it changes how I view his other posts. I just can't find it.

[Rufus Delorian]

Literallypam should have been doing anything other than evading questions, maybe try to shift attention to Guttsa or me, claim it was a newbie mistake or speed reading gone wrong...there's probably a bunch more that I can't think of right now.

Kagesong accused Literallypam pretty early, them being a team doesn't feel right to me.

[Rufus Delorian]

Notachipmunk, I was going to say that myself before doing answers.

First 2 pages of Kagesong is asking how to vote, answering RQ and accusing me.

Maybe accusing me is the clearance?

Frog also just skipped over the NK post which, I will repeat

came out of nowhere

no prompting, no previous discussion of NK, hardly any talk from or about Guttsa and Kirroha prior.

Am I really reading too much into that?

[Zaicon]

Vote Count 1.3

literallypam (3):

Reubus Swagrid, Drixx, PantherPunt

FrogSC2 (2):

kirroha, notachipmunk

Rufus Delorian (1):

kagesong

PantherPunt (1):

FrogSC2

Drixx (1):

literallypam

kagesong (1):

Rufus Delorian

No Vote (0)

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline is Tuesday, March 8, at 8:00 AM CST, which is in (expired on 2016-03-08 08:00:00).

[Reubus Swagrid]

I wanna see literallypam flip tonight if I'm completely honest. It'll answer a few questions about who is sided with who ect. we all agree that pam out of all is most likely scum?? We have under 5 days to decide who we're gonna lynch, so lets weigh up our options and share what reads we have. Obviously we are gonna come up with a few null reads but that's better than nothing. Oh the drawbacks of a slow moving game such as this and 2 non noncontributing people being replaced this late in day 1.

It wouldn't be my preference, but if nothing changes then I can probably change my vote and settle for a literallypam lynch...can you lay out the case against them as you see it?

Rufus you could check my latter posts but if you really want me to I can regurgitate what's already been said

[Reubus Swagrid]

I had to go back and recount the Drixx votes, can't believe I miscounted, but you're right.

As to assuming the IC is town...yeah, I did kind of assume that, newbie mistake I guess, has already been corrected.

Regarding Kagesong, I assume scum would be more paranoid, they have to lie constantly and worry about how their votes might give them away, I just have to tell truth & that shouldn't give scumreads.

About literallypam, I think scum would defend themselves more vigorously...especially if they can discuss strategy with their partner.

That links into my terrible reasoning about Hawkleader...it could be me projecting...I kinda wanted to be scum because it seems like it would be the more fun side so I'd expect newbies who draw scum to be more engaged.

I accept I might be completely misreading things, if we lynch Literallypam and they flip scum then I'll have to toss out all my reads...and maybe get lynched for going against it.

I've lynched scum that don't defend themselves at all before

[Reubus Swagrid]

Also, welcome replacements. I've long awaited your arrivals

[Reubus Swagrid]

Having an extended weekend til Tuesday (probably Monday for most of you). Still reading and answering where I can with what time I have.

[Rufus Delorian]

@Reubus: I was hoping for a summary but Frog and Panther have sorted that.

I'm going to be busy for the next couple of days, it's mother's day on Sunday in England, thought it was universally the same day but my wife's family is from the Caribbean and apparently they follow the American one and it's in May. Anyway, it's the first year that she's a mother & my Sister has plans...will be able to check things on phone but won't be able to say much.

Anywhoo, since we're nearing the end of D1 and no other scum targets have turned up, I will do as I said:

VOTE: Literallypam

Literallypam is at L-1

[FrogSC2]

Also, welcome replacements. I've long awaited your arrivals

*waves*

HAMMER TIME!

... jk

Please don't hammer.

If you want to start thinking mechanically, (the reason I want more conversation), work on POE (Process of Elimination) if/then's. Pretty small game, so there are only 6 alternatives.

Something like this.

POE (Process of Elimination) Last Will

Legend
D1 = Day 1
F3 = Final 3
MYLO = Mislynch and Lose

1)
POE:
literallypam!scum!D1
PlayerB!scum!D2

2)
POE:
literallypam!scum!D1
PlayerB!town!D2
PlayerC!scum!D3

3)
POE:
literallypam!scum!D1
PlayerB!town!D2
PlayerC!town!D3
PlayerD!F3!D4

4)
POE:
literallypam!town!D1
PlayerD!scum!D2
PlayerE!scum!D3

5)
POE:
literallypam!town!D1
PlayerD!scum!D2
PlayerE!town!D3
PlayerC!F3!D4

6)
POE:
literallypam!town!D1
PlayerD!town!D2
???!MYLO!D3

[FrogSC2]

Notachipmunk, I was going to say that myself before doing answers.

First 2 pages of Kagesong is asking how to vote, answering RQ and accusing me.

Maybe accusing me is the clearance?

Frog also just skipped over the NK post which, I will repeat

came out of nowhere

no prompting, no previous discussion of NK, hardly any talk from or about Guttsa and Kirroha prior.

Am I really reading too much into that?

Kagesong is a spew clear town.

If Kage had a private mafia chat, don't you think given the frequent posting style it would be flooded with questions and random chat instead?

Instead asks questions publicly and pretty much spams the thread with fluff.

Anyway, I'm never voting Kagesong. Because obviously Kagesong was my N0 peek. Lol.

[FrogSC2]

Vote Count 1.3

literallypam (3):

Reubus Swagrid, Drixx, PantherPunt

FrogSC2 (2):

kirroha, notachipmunk

Rufus Delorian (1):

kagesong

PantherPunt (1):

FrogSC2

Drixx (1):

literallypam

kagesong (1):

Rufus Delorian

No Vote (0)

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline is Tuesday, March 8, at 8:00 AM CST, which is in (expired on 2016-03-08 08:00:00).

Lol. I guess I'm voting Panther.

VOTE: kirroha

You're PlayerC in my POE lists, and I don't want to distract from the lynch today (despite it being at L-1), I'd like to hear more from you, already asked you a series of questions, Panther asked very similar ones, but obvious he's much nicer.

If you get around to posting your opinions on those issues, maybe you can explain your vote on Guttsa, Rufus, and then Gutsa again? I'm at a bit of a loss as to why you've done these moves, as it looks like classic OMGUS, and attempts at pre-empting traction. It seemed like at L-3 you were under pressure and posted some thoughts that, if true, would expect a more rational line of thought?

Drixx please come in and teach the newbies what is RVS : )

You recognized that Guttsa is inexperienced and has no idea what RVS is, much less the significance of RVS votes or the purpose of the introductory stage of the stage.

Wait, so you want the

wiser person of the group

to be lynched (In the first day)? And you seem happy about that?
That's like starting a PC/console game for the first time, select the tutorial in the main menu, and before the NPC can give you any tips, and info which might clear your doubts, you try to hit him/her in the face
You're the kind of (unstable) individual that I'll stay away whenever I can.

- guttsa

In hindsight I'm switching my vote because hey ~buddying the IC~ anyone?

VOTE: guttsa

Never sits well with me.

Oddly, while you recognize Guttsa is inexperienced and had noo idea what he was doing in his introductory post, you, for some reason, quote it and use it as a justification for voting someone. Twice. Since you've done it again more recently. Instead of commenting on literallypam, drixx, etc. It's headscratching. I've already discussed the content of this post being OMGUS, and looked like you were trying to derail the wagon pressure on yourself when you were at L-1 by page 1. What I'm asking is, why are you holding on to purposefully false logic for voting Guttsa twice? You recognized Guttsa was a noob who didn't know what RVS was originally, and then later use the noob justification for a vote? Really? Is there more to this? Can you see why Panther and I want you to talk about the actual relevant issues today concerning literallypam and Drixx/Reubus?

[FrogSC2]

Inb4 the self hammer.

[FrogSC2]

@Panther

Awesome clean up. I don't want to burry the thread in notes, but do you have any null reads other than notachipmunk?

Kind of Random-

I saw your post in the epilogue of that vanilla game I solo won in F3- I'm still ashamed of that game... Please don't use that as a gauge of my play. I was playing across 5 sites and setting up 2 mid sized games while that game was going on. What I'm saying is, don't assume I purposefully WIFOM imperfect play. For that game, because of my low content and teammates actions, I was forced into that play.

Were you in that anonymous 20er Star Wars game on that site?

[FrogSC2]

Dead game is dead.

Tempted to dump notes with my POE suggestions and say fuck analysis here on out.

Is swearing allowed?

[PantherPunt]

Frog I'll get back into this a bit later. Feel good about you but I'll take a look back at that 15er you mentioned. I was not in that anon game.

Would like to see some people check back in. I hope Pam comes back

[notachipmunk]

Kagesong is a spew clear town.

If Kage had a private mafia chat, don't you think given the frequent posting style it would be flooded with questions and random chat instead?

Instead asks questions publicly and pretty much spams the thread with fluff.

Anyway, I'm never voting Kagesong. Because obviously Kagesong was my N0 peek. Lol.

Kinda interesting, but if Kage had a mafia chat with someone like Hawk or Guttsa and they weren't very responsive he could have tried asking that and got no answers. (though you would know if one of these is true since you replaced one of them!) Anyway I don't wanna think too hard about it since I don't see him anywhere near getting lynched D1 anyway, I just don't think it *100%* clears them.

[FrogSC2]

Frog I'll get back into this a bit later. Feel good about you but I'll take a look back at that 15er you mentioned. I was not in that anon game.

Would like to see some people check back in. I hope Pam comes back

This game feels locked because 2 inexperienced randed wolves IMO.

The takeaway from that 15er doesn't apply in a 2 scum setup, but we could take those learnings to extend analysis for newbie game purposes or play rationally and lock it up in POE now. The alternative of POE lock makes it a more interesting game, but it's significantly riskier if it's not that straight forward.

IMO, we can't both die tonight, let's POE a rather certain victory D2 onwards.

I'll likely hammer Pam EOD pending future posts, but I want to prod Kirroha or Rufus/Drixx/Reubus (in that order) before then. Can you join my wagon so day isn't killed early?

[FrogSC2]

Kagesong is a spew clear town.

If Kage had a private mafia chat, don't you think given the frequent posting style it would be flooded with questions and random chat instead?

Instead asks questions publicly and pretty much spams the thread with fluff.

Anyway, I'm never voting Kagesong. Because obviously Kagesong was my N0 peek. Lol.

Kinda interesting, but if Kage had a mafia chat with someone like Hawk or Guttsa and they weren't very responsive he could have tried asking that and got no answers. (though you would know if one of these is true since you replaced one of them!) Anyway I don't wanna think too hard about it since I don't see him anywhere near getting lynched D1 anyway, I just don't think it *100%* clears them.

Inexperienced + range of player interactions works for me beyond the stated as a soft clear at minimum. It's still the spew!town clear weaker argument.

Please don't hammer vote Pam yet, but give opinions on my Drixx/Frog interactions and views, Kirroha's voting behaviours and non-involvement on the center of the field, and Rufus' reads (do they make sense?)