Mini 1770: College Mafia! (Game Ovah)

[kirroha]

I know. And that's scummy.

No it's not.

Uh, then why are you trying to lynch him if you don't think he's scum?

[Thor665]

Because Fire always plays like this. I learned that the hard way in another game as town where I pushed him for all the same reasons you are.

You are really not paying attention to my stated reasons.
Then again no one is.
Then again maybe I'm overestimating how clear I've made them.

You did read my "cards on the table" post, right?
Did you get anything from it at all - or did you have no idea what I was sayign and decided to ignore it and not ask for clarification?
I'm really wondering this because I am not having that case responded to and I'm thinking it means literally nobody understands what I'm saying but are refusing to admit it and ask me. Which is bonkers.

@SirCakes

Are you intentionally ducking these questions?
If not - please answer them.
If so - please say so, in order that I don't need to keep repeating myself.

[Thor665]

I know. And that's scummy.

No it's not.

Uh, then why are you trying to lynch him if you don't think he's scum?

I thought you were calling it scummy of me.
If it's scummy of him THEN LET'S LYNCH HIM!
There's nothing for his role to prove - he is busted scum, we ruddy lynch busted scum.

[SirCakez]

Thor - I looked for your cards on the table post but can't find it. Can you quote it or give me a post number?

[kirroha]

I just don't want to lynch someone who claims PR D1 if there's even the least chance that they're telling the truth. FB's role

might

be related to mine so he might be telling the truth and I don't want to take any chances. People play in all kinds of different ways that can be anti-town and while that's frustrating as heck, it's not necessarily scum-indicative.

Sorry man.

Like I honestly get where you're coming from and I understand that thought process. What I can't understand is why we can't do that tomorrow when we have more info. There are other scum. We can lynch other scum today.

[Night Hunters]

(Btw, I have so much work for school right now esp with exams around the corner but I won't let it get me down. If I organise my time well I can take up quite a lot.)

Yes my kitchen counters DO need renovations! Don't they?

I don't get it.

It's not for you anyway. It's old style Titus moonlogic and Thor is likely the only one to pick up on what I am literally thinking.

[kirroha]

Huh.

[ɀefiend]

Just did quick ISOs of my top suspects.
Would like to lynch: Aristophanes, shaddowez, or Jeanne
Will lynch: massive
Will not lynch: Firebringer, tojam, NightHunters, or kirroha on account of claimed PR
If it matters/helps in the future, my belief in the claims, in order from most believable to least believable is NightHunters, kirroha, tojam, and Firebringer.
Will not lynch: BBT, SirCakez, or GuiltyLion on account of having a town-read on them
Will not lynch: Thor on account of being a useful null-read

So I will VOTE: Aristophanes in case I cannot get back online in time for further developments.

[Thor665]

Thor - I looked for your cards on the table post but can't find it. Can you quote it or give me a post number?

ISOed myself.
Ctrl+F = card
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p7733513
Done.

Like I honestly get where you're coming from and I understand that thought process. What I can't understand is why we can't do that tomorrow when we have more info. There are other scum. We can lynch other scum today.

Because the idea of lynching scum Day 1 gets me hot and bothered, and his reaction to me is so obv. busted scum it makes me salivate - that's why. The other major lynches being offered are some nulls and a moderate town read (incidentally one pushed to claim, yet no one was willing to pressure the busted scum).

No, I'm not really feeling this strategy - does it make sense from your end?

[kirroha]

Eh. IMO Firebringer is scummy but he hasn't confscummed himself enough for me to actually want him lynched. There are lots of things I didn't like from him, like that random early SC buddying for instance. But none of it are stuff that can't be chalked up to bad town play. Bad town play isn't enough to lynch a PR d1 imo.

[Thor665]

Yes...okay, but maybe that paired with, y'know, the claim that his claim is false *is*.

[kirroha]

Wait, where did he admit his claim is false?

[SirCakez]

I can't Ctrl + f on phone :/
I'll look at the post now.

[SirCakez]

I think everyone else should lay off Firebringer for now imo. We have plenty of time to push him tomorrow. If he's really a town PR scum will deal with him and if they don't, we can interrogate him later.

Except he's not, and has already laid his groundwork defense for that, so we should axe him now.

Can you explain this a bit more? You may be able to convince me.

I am so frustrated by this sort of stuff, because of the following reasons;

1. It's making me show my hand before he is locked in hard.
2. That gives him more future wiggle room

But, that said, it is pretty clear that no one is either seeing what I'm seeing, or willing to sheep me, and we're getting closer to deadline than is optimal anyway, so, fine, here are a few more cards on the table for the three of you expressing at least guarded awareness/questions.

Okay, here's his big claim;

Unfortunately for you and everyone else. I have a PR this game. So lynching me isn't really that good of an idea to just to get rid of a hard to read slot.

Bam - empty and meaningless, or is it?
Let's look at the rest of his iso for thoughts. It's mostly emptiness and dorking around except for this gem.

Since I am never getting night killed anyways.

How many PRs would "never get night killed"?
Get it?
He's setting himself up as a slot that can do nothing all day, and justify lack of death late game.
But he blew it because I know he's scum, and also if you look at his reaction to me, he knows I know, and it's pretty apparent.

My thinking is that Fire isn't stupid, he knows what will draw attention to himself and what won't. If he is scum, claiming a PR early may save him from being a lynch target D1, but when D2 and D3 roll around then he's going to need to hardclaim to explain why he's alive and at that point he's likely SOL if he doesn't have a rock-solid fakeclaim. I don't see why he would resort to such a gambit so early.

Because there's like zero risk and it drags an otherwise quick lynch into lylo?
Y'know, also called Scum 101.

Frankly I don't see anything in his ISO that scum wouldn't do, but that's kind of my problem with this wagon

I...
You...

As far as his reaction to you, I'm also not sure that scum would encourage you to continue pushing him like he did in 435.

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that he knew two things.

1. That I didn't need encouragement, and would have pushed him regardless.
2. That no one would take that as a reason to vote him.

So why *wouldn't* he get cheeky and say that? It costs him nothing, hurts him in no way, and let's him avoid analyzing me (even though, as town, i would think you'd be curious why someone is super convinced you're town - but he's acting like it's a joke that doesn't concern him...which is what scum do to avoid having the case on them made center stage.)

First - I don't think Fire saying he won't get night killed is indicative. I haven't seen Fire get night killed like ever, his day play just isn't aggressive enough to be a threat.
And again, he usually does very little during the day. I already explained this part.
Then I don't see how his claim was empty and meaningless. He didn't even full claim.
I also don't see how Fire being cheeky means anything. He is always cheeky.
If there's anything in this I didn't address point it out.

[GuiltyLion]

Thor - it's pretty clear Fire lynch isn't happening today, who are you willing to compromise on?

[SirCakez]

@Aeronaut - V/LA until March 16

[Aeronaut]

VC 1.20

VC 1.20

(With 13 students still enrolled, it's 7 to Lynch!)

- University of Virginia (Charlottesville, VA) -

[L-4] Aristophanes

- GuiltyLion, SirCakez, ɀefiend
[L-7] BlueBloodedToffee -

[L-6] Firebringer -

Thor665,
[L-7] GuiltyLion -
[L-7] Jeanne11 -
[L-7] kirroha -
[L-7] massive -

[L-4] Night Hunters -

BlueBloodedToffee, Jeanne11, tojam2

[L-5] Thor665 -

Firebringer, shaddowez
[L-7] shaddowez -

[L-6] SirCakez -

kirroha

[L-4] tojam2 -

massive, Aristophanes, Night Hunters,
[L-7] ɀefiend -

Not Voting

-

Mod Notes:

Deadline is Tomorrow!
SirCakez is V/LA until Wednesday

Final Exams begin in

(expired on 2016-03-12 17:20:32)

[shaddowez]

VOTE: tojam

Won't be back any closer to deadline, and don't want a no lynch. Claim doesn't preclude scum here.

[SirCakez]

I'll move to Tojam if necessary for deadline.

[Firebringer]

VOTE: Shaddowez

[Thor665]

Wait, where did he admit his claim is false?

He hasn't, except insomuch as I have been repeatedly telling him it's a lie, and that I know this, and he hasn't even gone "hey now" at me for doing so, and actually just unvoted me to vote the other person who was voting me - read between the lines here.

First - I don't think Fire saying he won't get night killed is indicative. I haven't seen Fire get night killed like ever, his day play just isn't aggressive enough to be a threat.

Yeah, and he says this as a PR because...what, he's trying to fake people out? Both Kirroha and I see it as a crumb, you see it as just empty lamenting that is being done as an intentional misleading lie to fool scum?
Ockham's Razor.

And again, he usually does very little during the day. I already explained this part.[/qupte]
Don't care - not part of my case.

Then I don't see how his claim was empty and meaningless. He didn't even full claim.

I agree, I said as much.

I also don't see how Fire being cheeky means anything. He is always cheeky.

Always cheeky to the point of ignoring someone who is flat out claiming they know his claim is a lie? (a claim you say he hasn't even made clear, but he doesn't even toss that thought back in my face?)I don't think that makes sense.

@GuiltyLion - your play is atrocious and dodgy, I'm not compromising with you, and considering your past actions I find it disingenuous that you're trying to do so with me. Especially since there are so many other vanity wagons with less support than my wagon on Fire - why not address them? Firescum just amps up your tell here, better start prepping that defense, you can't get rid of me.

[SirCakez]

Always cheeky to the point of ignoring someone who is flat out claiming they know his claim is a lie? (a claim you say he hasn't even made clear, but he doesn't even toss that thought back in my face?)I don't think that makes sense.

Yes, he did this exact same thing to me in the game I was talking about earlier. Refusing to engage people who accused him, being dodgy constantly.
Even if the "I won't get night killed" is a crumb I don't see how it relates to Fire being scum.

VOTE: tojam
Deadline, we only have six hours

[Night Hunters]

I have a -strong- feeling tojam is going to flip town. Their intern claim feels legit (it was unprompted but ???)

-Dad

[Jeanne11]

I don't care what you think. Deadline is coming, so we have to lynch someone. All this posturing is giving us no favors.

VOTE: tojam

if you think we are that scummy for suggesting a lynch at deadline, then I will facepalm at you NH.

[Thor665]

Yeah, but at least the terribad wagon is a mine of info I suppose. I just can't get a read on it because literally everyone is , like, covering their ears and singing as they march onwards. I don't even think a case has been offered yet. The new site meta came up as fast and gnarly as a tequila hangover. It's kind of awe inspiring to watch.

Even if the "I won't get night killed" is a crumb I don't see how it relates to Fire being scum.

Because of how I'm reacting to it...? *hint*