A Musical Mafia! (Game over)

[Rob14]

Vote Count #1.15:

Mirhawk:

THE WRONG LYNCH, SirCakez, The Pied Piper, Cerberus v666, Sakura Hana (5)

Friendless Seniors:

SnarkySnowman, podoboq (2)

dramonic:

davesaz, Axelrod (2)

Skybird:

Amihan, Spiffeh (2)

Axelrod:

dramonic, Friendless Seniors (2)

SirCakez:

Ranger (1)

pistachi0n:

tictac (1)

The Pied Piper:

Tammy (1)

beeboy:

pistachi0n (1)

davesaz:

Mirhawk (1)

Not Voting:

Skybird, beeboy, True Ogre

With 21 players alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

V/LA:

tictac until 3/29.
Swordsworth until 3/30.
Amihan until 4/1.
Plotinus (of The Pied Piper) until 4/3.

Deadline:

(expired on 2016-04-06 21:00:00)

[The Pied Piper]

Hi Ranger!

[SirCakez]

I'm pretty sure you're like....the only person scumreading The Wrong Lynch so you're gonna need to explain this more.

Like I said, they're around a lot but don't really seem to be looking for scum. More like they're trying to look involved. Mala more so then GM. They don't appear to have any other scumreads than me and (maybe?) FS. I'm not even sure if they actually think FS is scum or if they're saying he's scum if I flip scum.

There's a bunch of stuff in individual posts that I don't like either, but it's mostly smaller stuff and is admittedly kind of omgusy.

Can you quote some examples of this? I'm not seeing it tbh.

[podoboq]

Hello again.

If somebody flipped town,

would

you give towncred to the people who suggested not to lynch them?

It definitely depends on how they presented their argument for not lynching. In Mirhawk's case, there's a legitimate fear that it comes from knowledge town doesn't have. In that case, definitely not giving towncred. There's not a binary answer to this.

Would you expect townSeniors to townread Cakez and/or beeboy in response to being attacked, or do you expect townSeniors to have a more nuanced read on Cakez and beeboy than they do?

I've definitely townread people who have me as a scumread. A person scumreading you should not automatically result in you scumreading them. Town's scumhunting shouldn't be localized onto the people who are scumreading them.

The only out I give FS to get me off their back is to engage with town. If FS is scum, engaging with town will give us more opportunities to read them. If FS is town, then I can encourage them to rejoin the game. So I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt and extending an olive branch.

What do you think of Errant's latest posts? (ErrantParabola is the head that signs as -EP and writes longer more thoughtful posts. hiplop is the head that does one liners and forgets to sign his posts.)

Spoiler: sliced down FS post

Axel might be town for that readswall as well, 904.

I will say I think the "EP" head sounds better than the "Hippy" head? At least, as best I can tell, I think most of the posts I don't like seem to be coming from that one, but that could just be the one head not being as good at being scum as the one head just being more Townie. And even the EP head appears to have defaulted to a "Sheep" vote behind another player, so that's not particularly great either.

OK NEVER MIND
WHAT THE FUCK DUDE YOU EXPECT US TO JUST PUSH RANDOM VANITY WAGONS ARE YOU KIDDING OF COURSE I'M GOING TO SHEEP SOMEONE IF THEY'RE SCUMMY HOW DID NO ONE ELSE CATCH THIS
And yeah if you actually wanted to evaluate your reads (as town would do) you wouldn't say "Hey, EP is better but that could be because EP is better as scum" you would say "Hey, how does hiplop play as scum? Is it usually like this?"
The fact that you didn't ask this question means that you're
1. Finding reasons to scum read us that aren't legit
2. Not actually evaluating these reasons because you don't CARE how legit your read is as long as they make your case look good
So yeah, take that previous townread and toss that one in the trash

Well I really hate this. That thing I said about focusing your scumhunting elsewhere....yeah.

Spoiler: more of that post

I think it's notable how Dram pops back up the instant he gets a few votes on him.

oh my god
this can't be real

VOTE: Axelrod
dramonic is your vote on axel because if so good

-EP

Maybe I shouldn't be townreading Axelrod, but he's right about Dramonic, and using his opinion on Dram as a reason to scumread him is either:
"1. Finding reasons to scum read us that aren't legit
2. Not actually evaluating these reasons because you don't CARE how legit your read is as long as they make your case look good"


On FS: Unless I'm missing something, there's been basically one post of major significance since our last interaction. And I don't like it.


On Dramonic: Cakez says this is just how Dram plays. If that's just true, and Dram is town, fuck him anyway VOTE: Dramonic. He's contributing nothing. Call it policy, because it is. Dramonic doesn't deserve to survive into day two if he insists on being useless. If he's scum, we get no opportunities to read him. If he's town, he's the most expendable member of town.

I entirely expect him to come in with a oneliner about how I'm scum, and so are the other people voting for him.

Dram, if you're actually town, and you're seriously so dense that you assume we're all scum for disliking this play, then ISO people and start giving some logic that town can use.

[SirCakez]

You should read Dram's ISO in this game
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=64567
Also hi Ranger!

[podoboq]

His responses in general feel super off. He sounds a lot more like he wants to be agreeable than actually trying to get something done.

That's a hell of a lot more than we've gotten out of him this game, and it happened within the first week. We've waited a week here and the best we got is this:

dram tbf you aren't really doing much

At least

I'm

voting scum

Whether or not dram is normally like this, it's not OK. I haven't posted much, but when I do, I at least try to offer something. I'm giving people an opportunity to read me, and I'm putting ideas on the table with reasons. What's dram actually offering to this game? If he's scum, are we just going to continue to not lynch him because of the fact that we know he plays like scum as town?

[Spiffeh]

I'm not lynching dram today over Skybird or Ranger (sorry you replaced into a scum slot)

[podoboq]

I'm not lynching dram today over Skybird or Ranger (sorry you replaced into a scum slot)

I can see joining a Ranger lynch today, but not sure enough on Skybird yet to switch off of dram.

[beeboy]

Ranger o/

I won't lynch you

[beeboy]

I legit think as scum swords would defend his reads before he left which is what makes the replace out null and maybe even town. Everyone is just blindly saying scum panic and I don't think that is shown.

[Sakura Hana]

I agree that all replace outs are null.

[beeboy]

I wouldn't say that I explained what a scummy replace out was like. When he replaced out he wasn't pushing an agenda, no reads, no anything.
Also without giving him a chance to explain his reads I don't want I lynch him for that.

[beeboy]

Also this is alignment indicative but everyone was on my ass for wanting FS lynched and "pushing him in a corner" making him hard to read but the same thing is happening to ranger and no one gives a shit.

[davesaz]

I'm treating this replace as null, because I'm confident I'll be able to read the replacement and we have plenty of time.

I'm not so sure about

all

replace outs being null. I can think of a player (not in this game) who has replaced out upon seeing a scum role without even posting, and the same player might have replaced out as scum after going under heavy suspicion early (I don't remember her role in that 2nd game, nor remember exactly which game it was to look it up -- if I weren't lazy I might check her threads...).

[Sakura Hana]

Also this is alignment indicative but everyone was on my ass for wanting FS lynched and "pushing him in a corner" making him hard to read but the same thing is happening to ranger and no one gives a shit.

Alignment indicative for who? FS? Ranger? You? The people pushing ranger?

[beeboy]

People pushing Ranger

[Sakura Hana]

I can think of a player (not in this game) who has replaced out upon seeing a scum role without even posting, and the same player might have replaced out as scum after going under heavy suspicion early (I don't remember her role in that 2nd game, nor remember exactly which game it was to look it up -- if I weren't lazy I might check her threads...).

That might be worth checking with a List Mod, if a player replaces out all the time as scum and under scrutinity.

[davesaz]

Pretty sure it already was. (folks who might be able to guess whom I'm talking about need not take any action)

[Sakura Hana]

Either way, for me the swordsworth replace out is null, if you dont think he was pushing an agenda that's your PoV, but literally only one of his posts has content (if you can even call that content), and when your real life gets in the way of playing mafia you replace out, no matter what alignment you are.

[Mirhawk]

I'm pretty sure you're like....the only person scumreading The Wrong Lynch so you're gonna need to explain this more.

Like I said, they're around a lot but don't really seem to be looking for scum. More like they're trying to look involved. Mala more so then GM. They don't appear to have any other scumreads than me and (maybe?) FS. I'm not even sure if they actually think FS is scum or if they're saying he's scum if I flip scum.

There's a bunch of stuff in individual posts that I don't like either, but it's mostly smaller stuff and is admittedly kind of omgusy.

Can you quote some examples of this? I'm not seeing it tbh.

Which part do you want examples of?

[Cerberus v666]

@Cerberus: hi Cerberus and belatedly welcome to the game!

Do you think beeboy is scum or just bad town?

96% is very specific number. How did you arrive at it?

What's your read on Cakez?

Hi. 96% is a number greater than 90% and less than 98% which I decided sounded best. Anything 98%+ indicates a degree of certainty I simply don't have, but I'm PRETTY certain you're town, thus 90%+. Everything about the particular points you've addressed and the probes you've made, coupled with the fact that you actually disliked mirhawks play during the whole miller claim situation, makes me feel I can see you scumhunting and sorting people.

I'm concerned he might be scum, but bad town is a possibility. I'm not experienced with him at all, so it's difficult for me to say no, there's no way beeboy would/wouldn't behave this way as town/scum.

Hmm. Cakez umm. I need to look at him more closely? I'm being pretty floaty this game. I pushed the one thing that was a red flag for me, and nothing else so far has really jumped out at me without requiring in depth analysis I haven't done for anything in this game yet.

[Skybird]

Either way, for me the swordsworth replace out is null, if you dont think he was pushing an agenda that's your PoV, but literally only one of his posts has content (if you can even call that content), and when your real life gets in the way of playing mafia you replace out, no matter what alignment you are.

I totally agree with this post (that you replace out if real life gets in your way). I had to do this a couple of months ago and it sucked because I really wanted to play that game but I just didn't have time. So yeah, swordsworth replacing out is not AI.

[Mirhawk]

It definitely depends on how they presented their argument for not lynching. In Mirhawk's case, there's a legitimate fear that it comes from knowledge town doesn't have. In that case, definitely not giving towncred. There's not a binary answer to this.

OMFG this is so stupid.

I don't care if you think I'm scum because my vote switch sounded fake or contrived.
But every person who thinks there was some kind of information scum would have that town wouldn't in this situation is talking out of their ass.

Unvote

This is obviously not happening.

I'm not inclined to believe that replacing out is alignment indicative, though ironically enough in the last three games I've played there have been six scum replace outs.

[podoboq]

It definitely depends on how they presented their argument for not lynching. In Mirhawk's case, there's a legitimate fear that it comes from knowledge town doesn't have. In that case, definitely not giving towncred. There's not a binary answer to this.

OMFG this is so stupid.

I don't care if you think I'm scum because my vote switch sounded fake or contrived.
But every person who thinks there was some kind of information scum would have that town wouldn't in this situation is talking out of their ass.

I think pistachion and Amihan are both town. Scum

knows

if pistachion and Amihan are both town.

When I see your response to the Miller garbage, I'm not saying that it looks to me like you know who the actual Miller is. I'm saying it looks like you know they're both town, and are stirring the pot making sure that one of the two of them comes out of it being scumread by town.


For reference:

/lawls

Anyways, it seems the thing to do would be to String Pistachio.

Only thing is I'm a little worried about a scum counterclaim on Ami's part.
I mean what if Piss flips Miller? I don't see myself as being comfortable with either way we could go in that case.

Unvote
Vote: Pistachio

Eh, what the hell.

[Mirhawk]

Ah, that's fine actually. I thought this was more of that business where I knew it was a gambit because I'm scum.