A Musical Mafia! (Game over)

[Amihan]

I am scumreading the hell out of Ranger's entrance and progression.

Sorry guys it happened again. This was my post.

It came up in Newbie 1682, but this is Marquis's computer which I use often. We're friends in real life.

[Mirhawk]

Not me I'm afraid.

[Mirhawk]

lol

[Cerberus v666]

I am scumreading the hell out of Ranger's entrance and progression.

Sorry guys it happened again. This was my post.

It came up in Newbie 1682, but this is Marquis's computer which I use often. We're friends in real life.

Hmm.

Tell Marquis Cerb says hi. That is all.

Unfortunately, that does mean this means a lot less to me than if I were to have discovered that you're an alt of Marquis. :p So, elaborate please.

[Amihan]

Correction, Newbie 1681.

Personally I think it is unrelated to the game and I want to move on from the error. Meaning that I would vote Ranger now if I didn't consider the Skybird wagon already a success.

[Amihan]

Actually Mirhawk elaborated already. In general those were my thoughts on Ranger, and Ranger's catch up felt very artificial as a whole.

[Cerberus v666]

Correction, Newbie 1681.

Personally I think it is unrelated to the game and I want to move on from the error. Meaning that I would vote Ranger now if I didn't consider the Skybird wagon already a success.

Sure. You misunderstand my question though. I don't care about how strong the read is as much as I care about *why* you're scumreading their entrance.

For my part, btw, I think someone summed it up nicely: Ranger could likely duplicate that particular sort of entrance as scum, so the entrance as a whole is null. The remainder of the slots play is what's significant. I'm interested in anyone who gained a strong read one way or the other solely from her entrance.

I know some people were townreading her for it, and I'd also like them to elaborate on why they feel that way.

pedit: Ah.

[Axelrod]

When I said that Seniors was "worthy" of a vote I was NOT BEING SERIOUS. I WAS JOKING. At that point in the game, I had zero opinion of Seniors. Or, my opinion was that he hadn't yet done anything. Certainly not enough to justify how much BeeBoy seemed to be pushing him.

In your 46, sure. I'm not referring to that comment or any pun-related posts (and I haven't asked anything about this before so I'm not sure why you're getting frustrated about it).

It feels like you're at least the 4th or 5th person (maybe more?) who has looked at that post and treated it as something serious. That's the frustration. I mean, you're even saying you're not referring to that comment, but you did?

I'm talking mainly about your sidling up to the Seniors wagon and then finding reasons to call them scummy in the same post you voted. I think you already had in mind what you were going to do with regard to that vote well before you typed it.

Particularly this part of your 152:

Wrong Lynch is fine

Unvote

. Pied Piper is also fine. Friendless Seniors hasn't done anything.

@Beeboy: when you say you know how Friendless Seniors would react to you, are you talking about one of the hydra heads in particular? Or is this a Hydra that you have played with before? I don't get your conviction given that Seniors hasn't done much of anything.

You think this was me building up to a vote against Seniors? That whole sequence was my trying to get a better handle on Beeboy, not Seniors.

Then you also agree that Seniors is worth voting, and comment that beeboy seems genuine in your 288. It seems like you're looking very very hard for reasoning to lay a vote on Seniors. The vote comes in your next post 45 minutes later (along with your justifications which seem more irritated than anything else).

Ok, the sequence is: Beeboy votes Seniors. At first this looks mostly like a joke vote. Later Beeboy says he's 90% certain Seniors is scum. I question him on his certainly - because to me, it looks like Senior hasn't done much of anything. Pied Piper comes in and says "Isn't not doing much of anything a perfectly fine reason to vote?"

All that is before the posts of FS that I didn't like. There were like 130 posts between the morning and the afternoon. When I next was on I saw Pied Piper's question and responded to that. That's when I agreed that not doing much of anything could be a fine basis for a vote, but that didn't seem to be what Beeboy was saying. Which is why I was questioning him on his conviction. How do you get that I seemed like I was "looking hard" for reasons to vote Seniors? I barely even mentioned FS in that post because I still wasn't thinking about him.

It was only after that that I decided to take a closer look him, and pulled out the series of posts we're talking about. That's what happened in the 45 minuted between those posts. There was no "sidling up" to the Seniors wagon. I really hadn't paid him much attention at all until the post where I voted.

To wit:

Characterizing the

single

vote (also the single post) of SnarkytheSnowman during the very early stages as a "push" that felt "weird," in order to justify his own vote. That makes zero actual sense.

This is really stretching. Vote / Push - what's the difference and why does it matter?

Did you look at Snarky's vote? It was literally a first post RVS vote with nothing else. i.e. the kind of vote that starts virtually every game ever. What could Seniors have possibly felt was "weird" about that vote? It didn't make any sense. It looked like a very poor attempt to rationalize his own vote. That's why it matters. I think Seniors characterizing it as a "push" is also odd, and wrong, but that doesn't even matter as much.

You're going to get mad? If people keep pushing on you? Welcome to Mafia, I guess. Also, you might think that if someone you really thought was Town was pushing on you, you would be trying to, I don't know, convince them of the innocent error of their ways. As opposed to threatening them. Like that's going to be productive.

This is more irritated than a reason to scumread Seniors. Do you think a threat directed at beeboy who has already made it obvious he's familiar with Seniors, is going to make him back off? Nah.

It was just an off response. Like, that's just not a normal way to react to someone voting for you. I've been playing a very long time, and off the top of my head, I can't ever recall a player threatening someone else that they were going "to get mad" if the first player didn't quit pushing. That also didn't make sense.

The way he says he "dislikes" being discussed so much. It's like, you know who doesn't like being discussed? And defending on the basis that they hadn't done anything?

OOH OHH I know it's scum who doesn't like being discussed right?
Except it's not, in general. I can give you one star out of ten if you were thinking that maybe hiplop was hiding behind EP and felt the need to come in to post to appear that both heads were active, and then didn't really want to talk, but that's not what you're saying (and is a derivation of a derivation of a stretch anyway). Being discussed as scum opens up a whole bag of opportunities for townies to be wrong, for buddies to defend or bus, to be that rational scum. I have a lot of trouble swallowing that you believe what you're asserting here, and funnily I doubt that Seniors is going to come in as scum and say "hey guys we're off-limits fuck you oh and I'm town".

Ok I was being snarky here. I admit it. But you turning this into a theory argument about whether scum

really

want to be discussed or not is kind of strange. That's so not the point.

I still think FS's response seemed strange here. Defending himself on the basis of having done nothing.

And finally the "look over there" vote. The rationale here is just bad. Seems to think you can't be suspicious of a player and also other people that player says are suspicious at the same time. Which you can, and it wouldn't be fencesitting even if you couldn't, it would be...something else. Inconsistent mindset maybe. And stirring the pot is not scummy in the first instance. Basically none of this makes any sense from a Town mindset. He's just lashing out.

I think Cakez' reads at the time were highly dubious given what had happened up till then:

ATM scum reads of varying degrees on Tictac, Seniors, Ogre, and Beeboy.

I'm talking about FS's own rationalizations for this vote. FS said that Cakes was "Fencesitting", "stirring the pot," and "trying to get momentum on our (FS's) wagon for shoddy reasons. None of that was accurate. He also tried to make it a point that Cakes said he was suspicious of Beeboy as well as the people Beeboy was pushing, like that was scummy. Which, it really wasn't.

And it was the combination of all those posts in rapid sequence that got my vote.

[Axelrod]

Ugh I feel like I have too many townreads and someone is dogging me

Another being I hated Axel's reads when he did give them.

What did you hate about them?

[Axelrod]

Or don't vig me tonight, that would be nice. I take a while to get into large games, and I'm not quite feeling this one yet.

How long is "a while," Snarky?

[Axelrod]

And I'm basically caught up again.

[tictac]

Catching up. On page 40.

Originally, you said that beeboy's push seemed exaggerated to the point where it wasn't supposed to look serious, hence not alignment indicative. I agreed with this; when did you change your mind?

140 made me think I might be wrong, so I probed at it.
When he started scumreading me for defending I figured he was serious.

Why do you think that his reads are bad?

Dodging this.
If Cakez is town I expect to be able to see it later in the game, but not if I give him an instruction manual.

tictac and cakez I'm having an issue with as they both seem to be saying *exactly the same thing* with regard to their scumread on me, and I mistook one for the other.

Is this still an issue for you?

Yes, but of all the arguments to pursue, is that the one scum chooses when counterclaimed? I don't think so.

Why not? I'd expect counterclaimed scum to panic and not make much sense.
What argument would scum!pist have chosen instead?

If you were in Pistach's shoes, noticed that the person who counterclaimed you posted first without claiming miller (and claiming miller in your first post is site standard), then counterclaimed after you claimed, would you point it out if town? If scum?

That is not the order of events.

But I don't think a scum pistachion would choose to fight a counterclaim by calling it a suspicious scum fakeclaim and voting me, rather than trying to either posit that 2 millers is possible or that I was gambitting a miller claim as town.

Oh you answered the earlier question already..
I guess I see that since you've actually seen 2 millers.
I disagree thou
If he thinks you are gambiting town he'd attack since you'd look like an easy lynch.
He miight think 2 millers would fly, but it would look like a huge stretch.

Sorry that pressuring Sakura, Mala, Cakes,

Texcat

and Amihan is stagnant reads.

Whut??
945&950 Liking the point about Mir being too certain about Amihan gambiting.

Except my certainty wasn't uninformed.

No, but it wasn't porportional to the decree of info town had either.
Didn't think it was a huge deal earlier, but I'm starting to see it.

Until the whole "if you guys let Beeboy lynch me" thing along with the bad catch up posts I wasn't actually 100% committed to the wagon and could have easily been swayed.

Oh, I thought you got serious earlier.

I have also played with SirCakez before and I scum read him for his posting and he wasn't scum.

Me too


I did skim recent events too, and yeah, Ranger ending up with Seniors & Mir as top scum is sketchy.
Current preferences pist>Seniors>Ranger>Mir

[Mirhawk]

Liking the point about Mir being too certain about Amihan gambiting.

[Cerberus v666]

Liking the point about Mir being too certain about Amihan gambiting.

Ya know, I'll be honest, I don't see much difference between podoboq's 1198, which you were okay with, and the other posts people made suspecting you were scum because of the way you reacted during that time, which you weren't okay with.

Podoboq specifically said you, as scum, know that neither one of them are town, therefore you acted in *this* way.

The only difference between what he said, and what the people you have been disagreeing with/seem to think are being unreasonable said, is they went a bit further in their analysis of the situation. Instead of just saying you appear to be scum "trying to stir the pot' they evaluate the situation and the thought process a scum slot might have in more detail.

Is the problem you have really with the fact that some people attributed a fairly common sense thought process to you(that is, you would assume the first miller claim is real, and the second either real or a gambit by town, and might conclude that a second miller is unlikely, therefore it's a gambit), rather than just being vague about it?

[SirCakez]

Ranger literally never explains reads, that's not indicative.
I got all excited and thought Marquis was in the game somehow but it was just Ami again :p

[SirCakez]

Tictac why is Post your top lynch still?

[SirCakez]

Pist*

[THE WRONG WAGON]

Also where the heck is TWL?

I haven't seen anything of substance from them since 751.

My spring break is over and I had a research and a midterm both on Tuesday I needed to study for. I'm working 16 hrs on Friday, half for work and the other half for my first clinical which probably means the earliest I'll get here is sat or at the latest Sunday!

Gm is busy and I know she was limited access in the beginning of the game but unsure if that's still happening.

~M

[Rob14]

dramonic was prodded.

[Sakura Hana]

@Mirhawk: What's so strange about Ranger coming to the conclusion that you and FS are scum? If you guys are (Conveniently) the leading wagons, then there must be a reason for why you are, no? I think you're just trying to find reasons to push Ranger.

[dramonic]

Didn't know it'd been that long since my last post.

[Spiffeh]

I need to read this

[Skybird]

Ranger's entrance and catch-up feels town to me.

[THE WRONG WAGON]

Didn't know it'd been that long since my last post.

I mean you're not playing anyways so what does it matter ._.

[THE WRONG WAGON]

Ranger's entrance and catch-up feels town to me.

It kinda does to me??

I don't really like the fact she put Tammy up at a top tier when she was absent for like pages at a time and before that her posts didn't really sway me either way.

Idk.

It's just feels made up

~M