A Musical Mafia! (Game over)

[SirCakez]

Ok ya Seniors is still scum. Mirhawk has just kind of vanished too.
Still standing by Ranger townread, her entrance/catchup felt super natural and open.
Why is everyone fighting with Tammy she's obvtown stop.

[Cerberus v666]

Ok ya Seniors is still scum. Mirhawk has just kind of vanished too.
Still standing by Ranger townread, her entrance/catchup felt super natural and open.
Why is everyone fighting with Tammy she's obvtown stop.

Am I scum or town? Curious. Also kinda want to see something happen in this game but I don't have the time to drive anything forward myself.

[SirCakez]

Town-ish. You're less active then usual but this game is also just fairly inactive so that might be why. Your posts have been okay but nothing that reeked town.

[Spiffeh]

Oh no Cakez are you scum?!?!

You might be!!!

[beeboy]

Spiffy he probably is tbh.

{Ranger, Cakes}
These 2 cannot be town if Seniors flips town.

[SirCakez]

Oh no Cakez are you scum?!?!

You might be!!!

Beeboy how does that logic even work

[beeboy]

idk but I am sure it is correct

[beeboy]

actually wait you bussed me in borderlands so you have a good chance of being scum in all situations.

Seniors and Ranger wouldn't 1v1 as scum buddies.

[SirCakez]

Didn't you literally say earlier I avoid bussing? Yea scum theatre but I don't like actually pushing buddies to a lynch as scum.

[Cerberus v666]

Town-ish. You're less active then usual but this game is also just fairly inactive so that might be why. Your posts have been okay but nothing that reeked town.

So you associate inactivity on my part with scum play? Or do you just associate a high degree of activity with my town play?

[SirCakez]

High degree of activity with town play

[Cerberus v666]

High degree of activity with town play

Hmm. This is kinda weird. This was a bit of a test, because I haven't actually been able to reread your ISO like I need to do, but I believe you and pistachion are the only people in this game who've played with me as scum, and you played with me in a scum game where I was terribly inactive by my standards. I feel like it's more likely that town!you would see my inactivity and pounce on it as a scum tell, rather than making excuses for me. Or that you'd point out/note the flurry of activity that marked my entrance to go along with your comment about the slow pace of the game, to support that town read.



I'm disappointed. I wanted to see a response that screamed town to me, so i could avoid reading your ISO, but I'm going to have to now. :-/

[Axelrod]

What did you hate about them?

904 felt all kinds of wrong. In particular, Mirhawk being among the likes felt out of place. Your middle-tier also felt out of whack. Pistachi0n felt too low, for instance, and you didn't explain {Pied Piper, TrueOgre}. Pied Piper felt too low especially without explanation, and TrueOgre too high for that same reason. Between {True Ogre, tictac}, you also get players who look like they're the scumbuddies-in-an-otherwise-town-list, similar to Mirhawk above.

You also had five scumreads (Friendless Seniors in this case looks like the scum-in-otherwise-town list), and two almost-scumreads (Spiffeh, Skybird).

It was just a very ewww-inducing post.

So, what your saying is you disagreed with the actual reads? Or at least some of them. And you're bothered that I didn't give explanations for why everyone was where they were? I mean, that's a little ironic, isn't it?

I don't think we were even that far off from each other, with a few notable exceptions.

{Tammy, SirCakez, beeboy, Amihan, Cerberus v666}
{The Pied Piper, Skybird, pistachi0n, podoboq, Sakura Hana}
{SnarkySnowman}
{davesaz, Spiffeh}
{The Wrong Lynch, dramonic}
{Axelrod}
{True Ogre}
{tictac}
{Friendless Seniors, Mirhawk}

As far as your top two lines, I had half of them as being at least Townish, and the others were no worse than neutral (some of this has changed since then)

You having SnarkytheSnowman next makes no sense to me, that's true. But you have to agree he's been, at best, a complete non-entity.

You say I had Spiffeh as an "almost" scum read, but that's not true. I had Spiffeh as someone I just couldn't get a good read on at all. We disagree on Davesaz, but it's like top third vs. bottom third kind of disagreement.

We disagree on Dramonic, which I assume is you doing what everyone else is doing and giving him a pass because he always plays like this?

I mean, I think the huge disagreement is just Mirhawk, which is a definitely large disagreement in as much as he seems to be your top choice, but that's mainly it? And I'm noting Beeboy has the same disagreement but you've still got him as one of your top Towns.

Why such hate?

[Axelrod]

I will go back to Friendless Seniors to get a lynch before deadline if that becomes an issue.

[Ranger]

What do you like about Cakez?

The short answer is: everything.

A longer answer would basically involve how most of what SirCakez has said resonating with me, and prior experience with SirCakez in the aforementioned White Flag game to have a better grip on him as a player to know he's less likely to be scum for the few factors I

would

see in him. I see absolutely nothing from him which could even remotely indicate him being scum. I see plenty of town thought going into his posts and a player whose thoughts match mine at the time I think things. Pushing Friendless Seniors when I did, pushing Mirhawk at the time I read Mirhawk, pushing you as scum earlier but then, at the same time I did, having that read weaken when your posting improved...lots of timing and tonality things like that.

I frankly think it would be easier and shorter for me to list the posts that

aren't

strongly town from SirCakez, because listing all the posts which are would be me effectively linking to nearly every post in his iso. He's by far my strongest townread; the only reason he's not above the others in that list is that there's no tier I can make above "Untouchable town".

What are your thoughts there?

Basically, all the right notes are there. Sakura Hana's posts are not consistent; they come in key areas, but every time Sakura starts posting, I'm left with a feeling which can more or less be summed up as: starts null, becomes town by the time she's finished her burst of posting. Never does she cross into scum, so the townread remains as-is or strengthened each time. This is in fact ironically the only consistent thing. At the beginning, I wasn't sure about Sakura, but by the end of the RVS, I felt more likely town than not. In the middle of the game, I wasn't sure especially since Sakura Hana wasn't posting as much as I thought she would be, but when she came in she looked town. And in more recent times, that trend has continued: her posting starts okay but doesn't give alignment-indicative content, but after a while, I warm up and see things which look definitively town.

So, not a top-tier townread, but a fairly strong townread all the same.

I read Mafiaception and her play is nothing like it was there.

That was my last Large Theme scumgame, but that would honestly be like looking at my last Large Theme towngame, which was my fourth game on-site...and that's going by sign-up time; by completion-time (as in, was killed via lynch or nightkill), it was either my first or second. I have eight completed scum games: Machina Mafia (oldest), Mafiaception (second-oldest), Blitz 1 (actually might be older than Mafiaception, definitely finished first), Blitz 7 (not indicative of my normal scum game), Open 628 (once I started playing, anyway; I let PC do the posting for the first half of the game and only started posting when we were the last scum alive), Blitz 25 (best solo-scum example of my play), Firebringer's Marathon (it was a marathon, though), and Mexican Standoff, which was multiball (so I was legitimately scumhunting).

Ranger why where your town reads so sticky? 4/4 of your town RVS reads stuck throughout your entire read list?

Easy. There's more town in the game than scum. Naturally, that means I'm going to have more town reads than scum reads, get them easier, and have them stick harder. Every player in that top tier earned their spot except Tammy. (No offense to Tammy, that's not a comment on your play, merely a statement on the nature of my read: town, but for absolutely no tangible reason.) I don't put players in the top-tier lightly. If I did, Pied Piper would already be in there, but because I have slight reservations about both heads (I

want

them to be town, I think they are town, but I'm not absolutely sure because there's the small doubt in there that their scumplay is competent enough where they could be scum), they haven't been promoted.

Effort doesn't equal alignment

It kind-of does, though. If I put no effort into a game, it's not alignment-indicative, sure. I'm lazy as both town and scum, putting as little as needed in. When I

do

put effort into a game, though, I am usually town.

Ranger's replace-in as scum in Open 627 was similar to this one, though much shorter.

My replace-in that game was nothing like this one. Did you notice that in that game, I made absolutely no effort to read every page? I read enough so that I could have some genuine reads, and then never read a single page more, because that extra effort was unnecessary: I had some real reads, I could fake the rest, I was sitting comfortably the whole game on those exact reads. I held onto reads that should have died (i.e., Almost50), and only reevaluated reads as necessitated by game content and sometimes not even then (again, Almost50). The one and only time I reevaluated a read was chilledtea, the day before lylo, and even then that was because my sincere scumread on Kop was proven wrong (ergo, game content proved me wrong), so I sincerely believed chilledtea was the mafia roleblocker. (Who was my top priority for lynching, as eliminating the mafia roleblocker would give us free reign.)

would never give a read on a single RVS only post, much less a top of the list read, and can't think of a town motivation to do so.

Counterpoint: I'm

Ranger

. I read players off of the RVS. You're correct. I usually have reasons. It's actually annoying me that I don't. Doesn't stop me from having obtained the read in the first place, though.

[Ranger]

I just remembered beeboy was scum in 628.

So, yes, beeboy.

I can say I have a good grip on your scum game, and that this is

definitely

not it. Your play is

nothing

like it was that game.

[Ranger]

How did Ranger suddenly become the town leader?

When I became super-confident in Mirhawk and Friendless Seniors.

Also by becoming obviously town.

[Cerberus v666]

How did Ranger suddenly become the town leader?

When I became super-confident in Mirhawk and Friendless Seniors.

Also by becoming obviously town.

Please include the post # part of the quote k? :-/

[beeboy]

Ranger the only way you can redeem yourself is by voting seniors!

[Ranger]

{Tammy, SirCakez, beeboy, Amihan, Cerberus v666}
{The Pied Piper, Skybird, pistachi0n, podoboq, Sakura Hana, davesaz}
{Spiffeh}
{The Wrong Lynch, dramonic, SnarkySnowman}
{Axelrod, True Ogre}
{tictac}
{Friendless Seniors, Mirhawk}

The relevant changes: davesaz has become more town, and I think I've found a tier SnarkySnowman best fits in: the nulltown one. Also merged the Axelrod and True Ogre tiers; it's both going in their respective directions. (It's best described as a nullscum tier.)

[Cerberus v666]

{Tammy, SirCakez, beeboy, Amihan, Cerberus v666}
{The Pied Piper, Skybird, pistachi0n, podoboq, Sakura Hana, davesaz}
{Spiffeh}
{The Wrong Lynch, dramonic, SnarkySnowman}
{Axelrod, True Ogre}
{tictac}
{Friendless Seniors, Mirhawk}

The relevant changes: davesaz has become more town, and I think I've found a tier SnarkySnowman best fits in: the nulltown one. Also merged the Axelrod and True Ogre tiers; it's both going in their respective directions. (It's best described as a nullscum tier.)

Mind giving reasons for the relevant changes? Also, you don't think moving me up to whatever your top tier of townieness is isn't relevant!!

I'm very important Ranger.

Clearly a VIP.

[Ranger]

Ok ya Seniors is still scum. Mirhawk has just kind of vanished too.
Still standing by Ranger townread, her entrance/catchup felt super natural and open.
Why is everyone fighting with Tammy she's obvtown stop.

This.

So, what your saying is you disagreed with the actual reads?

No, the placement of the reads felt wrong regardless of whether I agreed with them or not.

And you're bothered that I didn't give explanations for why everyone was where they were? I mean, that's a little ironic, isn't it?

The difference is, I never give reasons unless specifically asked. You were making a reads list about everyone, and randomly were giving reasons for some but not all, without such an excuse.

Ranger the only way you can redeem yourself is by voting seniors!

My stance there could not be any more unambiguous: I will vote for them if the wagons between {Mirhawk, Friendless Seniors} are comparable in size. Last votecount, that was not the case. I've seen votes since then, but I'm still fairly certain it's not the case. If I'm wrong, if the wagon has regained traction, then I will switch over. I don't care which of them is lynched. They're both scum. So as long as the lynch is one of them, we're good.

[beeboy]

Ok ya Seniors is still scum. Mirhawk has just kind of vanished too.
Still standing by Ranger townread, her entrance/catchup felt super natural and open.
Why is everyone fighting with Tammy she's obvtown stop.

This.

You agreed with that post .-.

[Ranger]

Mind giving reasons for the relevant changes?

davesaz I've liked the posting of a lot, and I've liked the people townreading him and their reasons for townreading him, and largely disliked the people scumreading him and their reasons for scumreading him. So, a triple-hit: good posting, good interactions from good people, good interactions from bad people. The only way he could be better is to have more firm, solidly good interactions with bad people, and even there he's not half-bad. (E.g. his Friendless Seniors scumread.)

The townread would probably also get stronger if I did my research on davesaz and actually read my past games with him. I have to admit that even after having played with him at least half a dozen times, I don't have the firmest grip on his play. That's one of the reasons why he's not even higher. Basically, my stance on him is that if I could actually get a grip on him, he'd probably be in the top-tier, but since I don't yet have that grip on him, he isn't.

SnarkySnowman as a weak townread is because I do lean town on him, but the criticisms of him are valid: I have seen SnarkySnowman give

much

more than he has in this game. Heck, he gave more as a jester than he has given this game. What little he has given does look good, but he's making excuses for not giving more, and that's not something I've seen from him in his town games before. Basically, SnarkySnowman as town usually has passion, strong stances and reads, and while I see

evidence

of this, it is not nearly as obvious as usual, thus, nulltown.

Also, you don't think moving me up to whatever your top tier of townieness is isn't relevant!! :(

You've been there for a while? I moved you there in 1309.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh. Never mind. I thought I was in the right below top tier.

Well, damnit, i don't really care then. I was just outraged at not being considered important.

I'll pick your brain about someone who I think is scum outside of mirhawk when I actually develop some reads.