A Musical Mafia! (Game over)

[SirCakez]

I'm furious about this but I'm not going to be able to be here until this afternoon, some irl crap came up, nothing serious. Sorry.

[Skybird]

I'm here and will be checking in frequently. I'm still OK with my FS vote. I feel Ranger is town and won't be voting there.

[podoboq]

I'm with True Ogre on this. People on vanity wagons right now (including Mirhawk's) are not contributing to town. If we come out of the day with a nolynch, vigilante (or whatever the actual role is called) should hold them accountable.

[The Pied Piper]

I thi she recently did the not claiming today as scum.

This doesn't really factor into my vote change either way. It's something about the rigor with which she responded to my questions about her catchup and was able to point to specific things, show me where I guessed wrong about why she was reading someone a certain way, the points she conceded. I felt while reading it that I could see the game through her eyes and I liked what I saw.

Surprisingly, I liked her response to my vague question about Blitz 19 (which was a towngame of hers); it wasn't an answer that I considered when I was thinking about how I'd interpret different responses to that. I think I would've disliked her finding something that was superficially similar to what I was saying but wasn't right but when she didn't remember what I was talking about I thought that if she

had

known exactly what I meant then I might have to worry she was doing it on purpose.

In Blitz 19 (open setup, fire and ice) on day 1,

Ranger

was townreading

rkvothe

. On night 1, he was crosskilled. Ranger entered on day 2 with saying that she thought he was the doctor and that's why she was townreading him so hard. Then she asked for some time to go looking through ISOs to recalibrate and find rkvothe's buddy. Town lynched her because they thought that scum would open with "hey you know that guy that died well i totally would've killed him because i thought he was a PR" because scum are always open and honest about their thoughts and feelings and motivations in the public thread. I am using sarcasm right now!

I thought she'd remember it because when I welcome people to my dead threads I try to always tell them what I liked about their play or commiserate or anyway try to find something that is both kind and true, which is sometimes difficult but it wasn't in Ranger's case. Anyway, I thought she'd remember it because she put onto her wiki the welcome to the dead thread PM in which I talked about how dumb her lynch was.

I felt that a lot of her posting about how she'd be willing to vote either Mirhawk or Seniors, in spite of them conveniently happening to be the two major wagons, and her honesty about not caring which of them got lynched was towner that not. It felt like "well my reads are my reads and i'm not going to manufacture more convenient ones just because you don't like them because i'm town."



Additionally, there was a brief moment in the last newbie game that I modded when both scum were at L-1 and there were no counterwagons at all (let alone viable ones) and that moment did not feel like this moment. The thread energy was different.


Also and I don't feel like going into details on this but there was something in a few of her posts that gave me a feeling of a bunch of things clicking into place at once that I'd seen this thing from her as town a bunch of times and couldn't remember seeing it from her as scum, and it's the sort of feeling that i get when i'm about to have a meta tell on somebody but I need to actually do the research to see whether I'm seeing a real thing or not (which I don't have time to read all of her games right now and i'm going to have to actually read her ISOs in entirety not just skim a few posts here and there but i'll make it a project soonish I think).

It could just be pattern matching but I don't think it is.

VOTE: Friendless Seniors L-4

There's still time to make this happen.

Well the hero returneth.

What do you mean "There's still time" when you yourself voted Ranger before I left for work today, tipping the balance? Seriously.

VOTE: Seniors

Also, Cerberus, I don't think you've as much as sneezed in my direction before. Saying that I created two wagons you're not interested in is crap and I think you know that.

*grgrrrgrrrrhmmm*

He very clearly wasn't (and isn't) caught up with the thread (neither am I for that matter; I'm winging it with only 58 pages memorised and another 20 pages that I'm not done digesting yet). You can see that from his 1903 when he doesn't understand why Ranger is being voted and 1919 where he votes her that the vote is more about getting his head into the game than anything, though he was aware of what my reads were and stuff. I was okay with the Ranger wagon at the time -- not completely sold on it, just okay with it -- before her posting today.

He was trying to engage with people in real time, then realised he needed to read the thread, got started on that, and then was called away.

I don't believe his vote on her tipped the balance, but maybe i'm wrong; he was the 7th voter on her wagon, beeboy was the 8th, you were the 9th. He was moving us off of Mirhawk at the time.

Meanwhile, a lot of content has appeared from Ranger that took me from "I need to talk to Ranger about my concerns" to "yeah we're not lynching this." I want to talk to her some more but I'd rather do it early in the day phase because I'm moving away from wanting to scumhunt her and towards wanting to sync with her. But time that I could spend syncing with Ranger right now is time better spent lynching somebody else.


Are you sheeping Tammy on Cakez to make a point or?


I could do Cakez if Cakez were viable but I really don't think he is. I've got a half written case on him lying around in our hydra PT though!

[True Ogre]

Yes my sheeping of Tammy is a contrast to my sheeping of Nacho and if you heads are going to try to rationalise each others' behaviour without having an anchoring point of your own hydra thread then we're going to have a bad time together. I don't trust you and I'm sure you can understand why.

[True Ogre]

Egh, I have the demons of the underworld on my soul right now and I'm angrily sorry.

I think Seniors is ABSOLUTELY FINE as a lynch today and I'd PREFER NOT TO LYNCH RANGER TODAY but apparently certain people are hard of hearing.

beeboy if you don't actually care right now how about you look at both wagons and decide who's townier on each?

Spiffeh? I realise that you're asking for a Nacho sheep but the hydra heads are the same alignment. What do you think about their Seniors vote?

[The Pied Piper]

We do have our own hydra thread. It is 25 pages long. Both of us were v/la for a while and I'm more caught up than he is. He knows what my reads are and I caught him up to the best of my ability but there's nothing like reading the thread for yourself and that's what he needed to do.

I fully understand why you're paranoid of me. It's okay. It doesn't bother me. Either you'll see the light or you won't. I've been trying to give you space about it because I get it. Your paranoia is part of why I'm townreading you because I figured that when you didn't know that I knew who you were you wouldn't bother to fake it as scum.

The question about sheeping Tammy was less about the sheeping and more about...you've been talking a lot about the looming deadline and how we really need to lynch somebody and that Tammy needs to move her vote to somewhere useful because the wagon she's currently voting is at L-10 and then after your discussion with her in which you don't seem to be convinced and are still worrying about deadlines, you vote Cakez and bring that wagon to L-9 and I just find the entire thing confusing but you do you.

pedit: it's okay, i wasn't offended.

[True Ogre]

You mustn't understand me very well then and I'm not all that surprised. Just for the fact that sometimes I don't understand why I go in certain directions even though I -could- rationalise it afterward.

Why did Nacho vote Ranger then? Or is this particular lacking to the point you need to guess at it? What were his previous reads on Ranger?

Do you seriously think I'm attempting to start a wagon on Cakez? I don't think anyone one else does. I want to read that naïveté in you as town plot but I just need some reference point on you that I simply don't have.

[talah]

Also if you're scum and I'm in your spreasheet as "reading us town" then please look at my avatar and imagine me biting you on the bum.

[talah]

Oh fuck it had to happen

[True Ogre]

Also if you're scum and I'm in your spreasheet as "reading us town" then please look at my avatar and imagine me biting you on the bum.

Oh fuck it had to happen

Me I guess.

*grrrmmmgrrrgrhhh*

[True Ogre]

Bum-biting comment stands

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura Hana going to untouchable town

What the hell? Why?

[Spiffeh]

True Ogre why are you voting Cakez with less than 12 hours left til deadline?

[True Ogre]

True Ogre why are you voting Cakez with less than 12 hours left til deadline?

I'm sheeping Tammy who is my lord and saviour and also I will be back for a few hours before deadline and have already stated I'd rather lynch Seniors over Ranger.

Catfiche?

Also I never guaranteed I wouldn't be drunk today so caveat emptor.

[True Ogre]

Your question is also shitty.

[The Pied Piper]

You mustn't understand me very well then and I'm not all that surprised. Just for the fact that sometimes I don't understand why I go in certain directions even though I -could- rationalise it afterward.

I don't think I do. One of the reasons I play is to practice understanding people.

Why did Nacho vote Ranger then? Or is this particular lacking to the point you need to guess at it? What were his previous reads on Ranger?

Nacho voted Ranger because we talked about which of Seniors/Ranger I preferred and at the time I was preferring Ranger though my mind wasn't really made up: I had concerns about Ranger but I was waiting on her answers to my questions.

I thought beeboy's comment had merit when he said that people were giving Seniors space after we talked about how sometimes people get boxed in as town, but people weren't giving Ranger that same space, though I also wasn't seeing signs of distress from Ranger that I was seeing from Seniors (which I didn't think were alignment indicative but I did think they were genuine; I've played in games that were toxic to me as both alignments.)

He said that he was dropping a vote on Ranger, hoping for reactions, and then a bit later he said that he felt he didn't understand the game as well as he would like to because of the pages he hadn't read and he needed to get caught up to find the right direction. It's one thing hearing about events second hand from me or reading posts that I found important enough to quote into our PT and it's another thing reading the game yourself and seeing things in order.

He went back to where he had been, spent an hour reading 8 pages and then he needed to take care of something elsewhere.

His previous thoughts about Ranger were that he was bothered by Swordsworth's 127, so he was mostly sheeping my read there when he voted her. The last comment in his catchup was about a post on page 45, which was before Ranger entered because she entered in the 1200s somewhere so page 49 or 50 i think.


Now that we're both back from our respective V/LAs we are looking forward to getting caught up and staying caught up to interact in real time. I was dealing with something difficult in my personal life but I'm starting to bounce back from it now and he was busy working on something site related. You'll be seeing more of both of us soon.

Do you seriously think I'm attempting to start a wagon on Cakez? I don't think anyone one else does. I want to read that naïveté in you as town plot but I just need some reference point on you that I simply don't have.

I don't. I think you were making a statement of some kind to Tammy when you voted Cakez. I didn't understand the statement, but I didn't think you sincerely believed you were going to get him lynched either.



I'm sorry you alt-slipped; I hadn't told nacho who you were beyond that he hadn't played with you often or recently (in the past couple years).

I keep track of people's reads as both alignments; it's one of my primary means of scumhunting. It is true that I rely more on my ridiculous chart as scum and more on ISO mapping as town but I use both as both. When I was a newbie in my first game, I kept having this problem where people would ask me what I thought and I kept saying what everybody else thought instead. I was town, I just didn't understand how to answer what I was being asked. Eventually I figured out how to turn that weakness into a strength.

I don't remember if you had us as true null or cautious townread that you don't trust as far as you can throw us. I think you were happier with nacho's posting than mine, and you're unhappy that we're hard to tell apart. If you see an american spelling you can know it's him.

[Amihan]

I've been prodded. Why aren't we lynching Ranger. Why are we going back to a dumb default lynch.

[podoboq]

I've been prodded. Why aren't we lynching Ranger. Why are we going back to a dumb default lynch.

FS is not a dumb default lynch. Could you provide some logic as to why you're seeing it that way?

[The Pied Piper]

Amihan, what do you think of Ranger's recent posts?

[True Ogre]

I remember mainly our interactions from the shitty blitz you've referenced earlier. We were both town; I didn't know how to read you; I've had other interactions with you and you've been scum and really passive and convincing and gaining my trust -- and that's what I distrust at this point. As far as Nacho goes - I like his input and it has not at all rung on my scum-radar and a couple of times in the past when he has been scum, it has. I'll go back to what I said earlier and just state that for me it is a pure gut-feel and something to do with not caring and trolling on his part. I haven't seen that from him -yet- and I'm actually appreciative of his input so I'm towning it but he's obviously subject to change especially when you two are hydra-ing.

It's a tough time reading you guys. But I'm prepared to put in some faith.

I'm guessing Nacho already knew who I was or gut-felt the interaction. Comments like "take that ogre" aren't uninformed.

[Amihan]

I've been prodded. Why aren't we lynching Ranger. Why are we going back to a dumb default lynch.

FS is not a dumb default lynch. Could you provide some logic as to why you're seeing it that way?

Because I don't see why the Ranger wagon dissolved?

I haven't read in full but I generally don't like situations like this where the lynch falls back on the first large wagon. It kind of stinks of opportunism.

[Amihan]

Amihan, what do you think of Ranger's recent posts?

I think her thought process still feels fake as ever.

[True Ogre]

Amihan, what do you think of Ranger's recent posts?

I think her thought process still feels fake as ever.

Fake, a Sever?
Or
Fake as Ever?

Just for the record. Considering both statements are equally devoid of content.

[podoboq]

I've been prodded. Why aren't we lynching Ranger. Why are we going back to a dumb default lynch.

FS is not a dumb default lynch. Could you provide some logic as to why you're seeing it that way?

Because I don't see why the Ranger wagon dissolved?

I haven't read in full but I generally don't like situations like this where the lynch falls back on the first large wagon. It kind of stinks of opportunism.

The Ranger wagon dissolved because we believe she's town.

The FS wagon is not a default wagon because FS is scum. A small number of town and probably scum, tried to push the Ranger wagon (which stinks of opportunism), and it didn't catch enough support. So we're still on FS, because it's the best option.