A Musical Mafia! (Game over)

[pistachi0n]

I do remember a game where I was scum and itlpip was town and he was easy to mislynch...can't remember exactly why though, I'd have to look through it again. I remember him saying more than this though.

[itlepip]

the way I like doing that is by creating a large town circle.

You have done nothing to solidify your town circle.

Not true but w/e.

[SirCakez]

Might have been Basic uPick
He didn't actually get mislynched though but he got close to it

[THE WRONG WAGON]

I'll be here later, but I'm liking a lot of everyone on the last page so

[pistachi0n]

the way I like doing that is by creating a large town circle.

You have done nothing to solidify your town circle.

Not true but w/e.

Usually having a town circle requires strong reads and cooperation.

[dramonic]

I'll be here later, but I'm liking a lot of everyone on the last page so

That's... a really useless statement.
Zero opinions, just hearts for everyone, really?

[Mirhawk]

Back, I'll catch up tomorrow.

[Rob14]

Vote Count #2.10:

Skybird:

Marquis, podoboq, The Pied Piper, itlepip, SirCakez (5)

SirCakez:

Mirhawk, pistachi0n, tictac, Skybird (4)

Axelrod:

dramonic, Sakura Hana (2)

The Pied Piper:

Friendless Seniors, True Ogre (2)

dramonic:

davesaz (1)

Not Voting:

Axelrod, Cerberus v666, THE WRONG LYNCH

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

V/LA:

Marquis until 4/17.

Deadline:

(expired on 2016-04-22 21:00:00)

[Marquis]

I'll be here later, but I'm liking a lot of everyone on the last page so

That's... a really useless statement.
Zero opinions, just hearts for everyone, really?

lol irony

at least they're town!

[Marquis]

or, well, townier than u

[itlepip]

Rob cake didn't selfvote.

[dramonic]

I'll be here later, but I'm liking a lot of everyone on the last page so

That's... a really useless statement.
Zero opinions, just hearts for everyone, really?

lol irony

at least they're town!

Yes, cuz I've been VERY subtle about my opinions

[davesaz]

big post in spoiler

Spoiler: big post

If I had to consolidate, it'd be on VOTE: Axel for his posts reeking of effort concealing motivation.

Not the biggest fan of my wagonmates but I'm not too fond of the other wagons.

Still mostly V/LA; will get access again later tonight.

*furious dryhumping*

In the meantime, I'll put my vote somewhere I know it belongs. VOTE: dramonic. I get that he's a better vig target, but he's the only person I consider obvscum right now, so that's where I'm gonna park while I finish up some projects over the next two days.

Multiple people have repeatedly talked about and referenced games where dramonic does this as town as well. While I could expect a vote for uselessness, it concerns me that you seem to ignore those points and continue on with just calling him obvscum.

I know your play and I know you're not a shallow thinker. So what's up here?

He's scum is what's up

He's just scumreading the people who are attacking his play.

I'm pretty sure I called out all three of your asses before you adressed me.

VOTE: Podo Dram is actually just town this game, sry mate.

I have absolutely no idea how you came to that conclusion, and I'm legitimately confused as to how you can't see my logic.

1) I think that dram's play is unreadable by its very nature. I think that's a liability for town.
2) I think that dram's play and lack of contribution is scummy, and leads him to be an incredibly easy lynch in the late game. I think that's a liability for town if dram is town, and we should cut our losses early in that case.
3) I also think dram is obvscum based on his bad scumreads, providing no reasoning as to why they're scumreads, and not cooperating with town in any meaningful way.

Right now, any of those three reasons alone is more than enough to make me feel comfortable with dram's lynch. While dram is a better vig hit, I don't feel comfortable right now parking on anybody else, because I don't feel comfortable with the lynch of any other players without further review, which I can't get done at the moment. So if somebody gets lynched while I'm getting work done, I'd much rather it be dram than anybody else, because dram at least

needs

to be removed from this game for the benefit of town.

I understand if you disagree with any of that logic, fine. But I believe you can see where I'm coming from here, and if you scumread me for it, I'm honestly confused as to how you're drawing that conclusion.

That is one shitty excuse to vote me mate. You're "not comfortable" voting someone else without review? That is such wishy-washy bull

His reads aren't solid. I know I'm town, I don't scumread Axel right now, and I'm no longer convinced about tictac. I can see either of them flipping scum at some point, but their alignment is not obvious, and picking the three players he did as early as he did and not wavering is incredibly scummy. It's without logic, and it's proven without logic, BECAUSE HE REFUSES TO PROVIDE LOGIC DESPITE BEING ASKED TO ON MULTIPLE OCCASIONS, INCLUDING

FROM YOU

.

I'm not going to waver unless you provide a reason for me to, but every post you make just confirms my read further so...

Not only is this eight word post from dramonic useless, off base, and not used to support any meaningful dialog, but it's against YOUR SLOT, which theoretically you should KNOW is town. How could you possibly use this as evidence to read dramonic as town, enough to almost consider him obvtown?

Okay, I want everyone to take a moment to read that quote and tell me what sort of town tries to convince someone of a read by saying "But he attacked you, therefore he must be scum!"

So I guess the answer to the rest of that post would be that yeah, you're just a bad player

it's very unlikely that i'm going to want a dram lynch today, but the way he's pushing it is town town town town town town town

TPP come on

VOTE: Skybird

Whatever, I'm back here.

And after I dryhumped you for a good fifteen minutes. SHAME man.

Wow, it can talk. Who would have guessed?

UNVOTE:

I'm thinking I like the Cakez wagon, but need to do some rereading first. It's going on bedtime so that's gonna be tomorrow at the earliest.

[Skybird]

-Ranger info

Lynching Ranger will basically explode open this game in terms of reads so even though I have this sick feeling she's going to flip town lynching her is the right play here.

What I was looking for here was for you to explain this quote, not so much look at Ranger's wagon and analyze it. I'd expect that if you were as town you'd have a specific idea wrt her wagon in mind (the only way she could get lynched as town is if there was a bunch of scum on her wagon) that would explain why you'd have a bunch of reads as a result of a Ranger lynch, but, if scum, I'd expect you felt a little bit awkward about joining the wagon of someone who you town read and so you posted this to justify jumping on it. Was what you meant by that quote simply that you thought Ranger's wagon would be very analyzable? Why?

-Spiffeh

At the beginning of the day today, you said that you were going to sheep Spiffeh's reads. The reason why that felt weird to me is because you said that if Ranger was town, you wanted Spiffeh to be your voteslave (suggesting that you thought your reads were better than Spiffeh's if Ranger was town). Could you talk about that?

The cause of that vote was because of the unvote and not commenting on anything else, which I find pretty bad considering an IC just revealed who was the leading wagon which means you should be reanalyzing and Skybird didn't.

Just because a player isn't reanalyzing in the same post that they unvoted doesn't mean that they aren't going to do any reanalyzing at all.

"Just sorting someone" is an excellent excuse to join a wagon without seriously committing.

"Getting this sorted" was a reference to the Ogre-Pistach interaction which did indeed need to be sorted.

That's straight up backtracking.

Well, yeah, but I'd find it weirder if Skybird didn't backtrack on her vote after Pistach revealed to be an IC... Wouldn't you?

-Yes I did, because it was an easy wagon especially towards the end so I wanted to look into the people who had been pushing it for a while off of weak reasoning, for example Mirhawk.
-That was mostly a joke since I was getting frustrated with Spiffeh for still pushing that wagon despite my strong town read on Ranger.
-True, but she just popped in and out which is what I didn't like. 0 other comments.
-If it was I missed that. I thought she meant she wanted to sort Pist.
-It's not backtracking then if she was trying to sort Ogre v Pist, I messed that up if so.

Yes, I was trying to sort Pist-True Ogre, not just Pist.

I think you are confbiasing on me. It seems that everything I post lately you are calling scummy.

[SirCakez]

Vote Count #2.10:

SirCakez:

Mirhawk, pistachi0n, tictac, Skybird, SirCakez (5)

Skybird:

Marquis, podoboq, The Pied Piper, itlepip (4)

Axelrod:

dramonic, Sakura Hana (2)

The Pied Piper:

Friendless Seniors, True Ogre (2)

dramonic:

davesaz (1)

Not Voting:

Axelrod, Cerberus v666, THE WRONG LYNCH

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

V/LA:

Marquis until 4/17.

Deadline:

(expired on 2016-04-22 21:00:00)

@Rob is this VC correct? I never self voted.

[SirCakez]

Yes, I was trying to sort Pist-True Ogre, not just Pist.

I think you are confbiasing on me. It seems that everything I post lately you are calling scummy.

The sorting thing was my mistake, but I'm definitely not conf biasing or "calling everything you post scummy".

[Skybird]

I didn't say you were calling everything I posted scummy. I said it

seems

that everything I post

lately

you are finding scummy.

[SirCakez]

It seems that everything I post lately

you are calling scummy.

What?

[podoboq]

I didn't say you were calling everything I posted scummy. I said it

seems

that everything I post

lately

you are finding scummy.

This is semantic drivel and you don't have a leg to stand on.

How about defending yourself by actually defending what people are finding scummy.

[Skybird]

So give me a quick recap podo. What's your case on me? If you have already posted it, just give me the post number.

[Skybird]

After reading the conversation between Cakez and Mirhawk, Mirhawk is moving up on my town list. I feel he has made some good points on Cakez.

-snip-

I still kind of think Seniors is town.

You're probably right. I don't think your wagon analysis piece was going to result in anything productive;

two town counter wagons doesn't really mean much with how the scum team was behaving.

-snip-

Why is this game dead all of a sudden
Spiffeh y did you have to die with your great activity ugh
For the tictac case - just look at his posts on the last page and tell me that's not scum.

While I'll commend Cakez if he's scum here because this post is pretty decently ballsy, this post also feels pretty incredibly fake. As I've said before, I don't mind when people read into dead town's reads and all that good stuff but following them blindly when you didn't really follow the player that closely the day before is pretty fucking iffy, and these sorts of "I'll miss you Spiffeh!" posts never really ring true to me.

What do you mean by the bolded PP? How do you know how the scum team was behaving?

In the second part of the quote, I agree with the "I'll miss you Spiffeh" sentiment ringing false. Put this quote along with the "I tried to save you Ranger" quote from Cakez and he just feels incredibly scummy today.

I'm caught back up now and I think it's time to vote.

VOTE: Sir Cakez

Criminy, I spend an afternoon outside because it finally made it over 65 degrees around here for the first time this spring and you all choose now to start voting me.

I'm having a hard time finding scum this game. I've been looking at things and re-reading but I'm just not picking up on anything. I'm not sure what I need to do to find scum right now.

These are all really scummy. Especially after reviewing her ISO earlier when doing the wall for Nacho I agree this is the right vote.
VOTE: Skybird

This is what I am talking about Cakez. You took 4 of my posts in a row and called them all scummy. That's why I said it seems like you are calling everything I post lately scummy.

[podoboq]

So give me a quick recap podo. What's your case on me? If you have already posted it, just give me the post number.

I haven't made a case. In fact, I don't think I've actually said much about you. If you want, I'll go build one, but you can start by answering Marquis, since she started this push. I don't know why I have to point to you that that would be an appropriate place to start building credibility.

I'll highlight the parts I find specifically worthy of a response.

I'd be happier with Skybird than Axel; why don't you like the Cakez wagon?

Unlike SirCakez, Skybird isn't contributing to the game. Cakez at the very least presents a visble thought progression that reads similarly to his play in our Newbie game together.

But unlike dramonic,

Skybird keeps asking questions that don't lead into anything

. In other words, unlike dramonic,

Skybird is playing like she's trying to look helpful and like she's trying to figure things out

, while dramonic just doesn't care. Despite endless questions to people with no followup,

Skybird is also very limited on reads. And when she does give reads, it's when she's called out for it, and the reasons are either very general or just amount to "looks bad"

.

Spoiler: last Skybird posts since her pistachion unvote

Announcement: pistachi0n is town-aligned.

UNVOTE: pistachion

Because literally the only thing she did was pop in, unvote and leave. No comment at all on Pist being IC or how shifty that wagon was.

What's there to comment about? Pist is now confirmed town. I voted her because I have True Ogre as town. It turns out through Mod communication that Pist is town. I unvoted. Then RL intervened and I had to go do other stuff.

Dram, I think you are wrong on your Davesaz read. I feel he is town here. He hasn't been very active but he is reading the thread and asking questions.

You've commented on Axel. What about Podo makes you think he's scum?

Welcome Marquis!

Pistach, I get better as the game goes on.

What's bothering me is why you feel the need to talk about this at all.

You brought it up as a scum point against me. I'm responding with the truth.

After looking at last night's actions, how has that changed your reads?

Pist, I don't think you answered this yet. Who do you think is scum on the ranger wagon?

Pist, I don't think you answered this yet. Who do you think is scum on the ranger wagon?

Who do you think is scum? When are we going to all realise you're town?

-snip-

I'm having a hard time figuring scum out. I still think FS is scummy, but am concerned that everyone else seems to have shifted away from them. Their posting did change about halfway through D1. FS is smart enough to know that they were being scum read and to shift their comments to seem more town. I also don't think fruit (wig) vendor is AI.

I'm leaning more scum now on tictac. I read through his ISO a few days ago and didn't see much to indicate to me he was scum, but I also didn't see a lot to indicate he was town. That hasn't changed much since I read his ISO and think he could be scum skating by.

I apologize because I'm going to have to finish this up when I get back. Husband just informed me that we have to leave NOW to go look at a boat we are thinking of buying.

Welcome itlepip!

I'm not sure what you mean with post 2648. Do you mean you tried to read him and can't quite figure him out? Or did you try to engage him? lynch him? What exactly did you try to do?

who are your next best guesses for scum?

tictac

@everyone: I've been coming down with a 39ºC fever, hopefully this'll resolve soon, im not stating V/LA because i've already been inactive enough if it lasts enough to last past prod timer then i suggest i am replaced instead of prodded.

I hope you get to feeling better soon! Having a fever sucks.

Pist, I don't think you answered this yet. Who do you think is scum on the ranger wagon?

Who do you think is scum? When are we going to all realise you're town?

-snip-

I'm having a hard time figuring scum out. I still think FS is scummy, but am concerned that everyone else seems to have shifted away from them. Their posting did change about halfway through D1. FS is smart enough to know that they were being scum read and to shift their comments to seem more town. I also don't think fruit (wig) vendor is AI.

I'm leaning more scum now on tictac. I read through his ISO a few days ago and didn't see much to indicate to me he was scum, but I also didn't see a lot to indicate he was town. That hasn't changed much since I read his ISO and think he could be scum skating by.

I apologize because I'm going to have to finish this up when I get back. Husband just informed me that we have to leave NOW to go look at a boat we are thinking of buying.

True Ogre, I wanted to get back to you on this since I didn't get a chance to finish out.

I want to scum read Mirhawk but I am going back and forth on this read. Part of the reason I want to scum read him is because he is scum reading me and I agree that is a really shitty reason to scum read someone. I don't think he's right on Dave being scum. I have Dave as town. Most of the things Mirhawk has pointed out against Dave are him asking meaningless questions and not taking strong stances. But town is going to disagree on who we think are scum so again, this isn't a strong reason for scum reading him. I did like post 879 from Mirhawk. That really reads town to me. I don't agree with calling FS town just because they are a fruit vendor which Mirhawk is basically doing. If I was a mod this would be a great scum role just because most people do read it as a town role. I also didn't like that Mirhawk didn't seem to give any consideration to those of us saying Ranger was town. Anyway, this is basically the argument I am having with myself about whether Mirhawk is town or scum.

After reading the conversation between Cakez and Mirhawk, Mirhawk is moving up on my town list. I feel he has made some good points on Cakez.

-snip-

I still kind of think Seniors is town.

You're probably right. I don't think your wagon analysis piece was going to result in anything productive;

two town counter wagons doesn't really mean much with how the scum team was behaving.

-snip-

Why is this game dead all of a sudden
Spiffeh y did you have to die with your great activity ugh
For the tictac case - just look at his posts on the last page and tell me that's not scum.

While I'll commend Cakez if he's scum here because this post is pretty decently ballsy, this post also feels pretty incredibly fake. As I've said before, I don't mind when people read into dead town's reads and all that good stuff but following them blindly when you didn't really follow the player that closely the day before is pretty fucking iffy, and these sorts of "I'll miss you Spiffeh!" posts never really ring true to me.

What do you mean by the bolded PP? How do you know how the scum team was behaving?

In the second part of the quote, I agree with the "I'll miss you Spiffeh" sentiment ringing false. Put this quote along with the "I tried to save you Ranger" quote from Cakez and he just feels incredibly scummy today.

I'm caught back up now and I think it's time to vote.

VOTE: Sir Cakez

(Note: "I also don't think fruit (wig) vendor is AI."

What does that mean?

Did nobody question it?)

For example with going to a townread on Mirhawk, her reasons just read like things scum think sound good. As in, after giving basic reasons to both townread and scumread Mirhawk that anyone could have or has already noticed, she finally settles on a weak townread because "I feel he has made some good points on Cakez".

Nacho can you honestly tell me her play doesn't look like scum "scumhunting" based on... how do I put it, what scum objectively think sounds good/reasonable? And based on who seems more agreeable versus more lynchable? Basically her posts and opinions (when she actually provides them when people actually ask for them) just feel so fake, going with the flow of opinion against each player, and just... asasdffaskjhf. HER PLAY IS JUST SO APPARENTLY SCUM TO ME SINCE DAY 1 AND I FEEL LIKE I'M STARING DOWN SOME SORT OF ROBOT ALIEN HYBRID THAT NOBODY ELSE SEES.

I'm having an extremely hard time buying that her posts this game, including the most recent ones, serve more of a purpose than scum coasting and trying to at least do more than the laziest town, which may or may not be me/dramonic.

ALSO IN CAPS, WHY DO WE KEEP DOING THIS THING WHERE MULTIPLE PEOPLE AGREE SHE'S SCUM, SHE DISAPPEARS OR SOMETHING, AND THEN WE VOTE OTHER PEOPLE FOR ACTIVELY LOOKING BAD AND NOT CARING INSTEAD OF INACTIVELY LOOKING BAD BUT TRYING TO LOOK GOOD.

I just. am so frustrated by all of this. like maybe my all caps-ing looks kind of unnecessary to everyone else but I don't get how we always have this pattern of multiple likely-town players agreeing on a scumread on a player but then shiny things happen and wooo! town wagons instead and blahhhh

[Skybird]

OK, yeah, didn't realize Skybird's ISO was so short. Seems way too scattershot for my liking. I'm putting her as a scumread. If the wagon moves on Skybird, I'll jump in.

Marquis is right. VOTE: Skybird

I decided not to wait on you because I may be afk this afternoon.

I went through your ISO Podo and this is all I could find about you calling me scummy. The only thing here is you think my ISO is scattershot. What kind of thing is that to base a scum read on anyway? This is a large game with many people. Your subjective statement is pretty damn weak for calling me scum. Then you decide Marquis is right and vote me. Looks like a pretty opportunistic vote to me.

p-edit: I'll get to Marquis next.

[itlepip]

24- Kinda awkward.
128- good start but questions at end are bad.
Lot of filler questions.
697- Dram read is weird. Beeboy read could be town actually though.
711- Super bad and scummy, association based on a 1 post defense is kinda insane
829- solid
1196- awkward again, if either flip scum the other is going to be under scrutiny

Podo, Ranger and Ogre posts are pretty towny.
Cakez revote is weird.
Semantics defense is shit but I actually kind of like Sky on reread.

Sorry guys.

VOTE: Mirhawk

Pretty sure this one is actually scum though.

[itlepip]

I feel like this is the coasting scum slot. I really should have been pushing this earlier but given where the game is at right now I can't ever see Mirhawk being town right now unless I am super wrong this game.