A Musical Mafia! (Game over)

[Skybird]

I'd be happier with Skybird than Axel; why don't you like the Cakez wagon?

Unlike SirCakez, Skybird isn't contributing to the game. Cakez at the very least presents a visble thought progression that reads similarly to his play in our Newbie game together.

This is subjective. I have been and always will be a low post count player. Look at all my other games and you will see that I never lead the post count. To say I have not been contributing is BS because I do have posts in the game and I do give reads on people, saying who I think is town and who I think is scum.

But unlike dramonic, Skybird keeps asking questions that don't lead into anything. In other words, unlike dramonic, Skybird is playing like she's trying to look helpful and like she's trying to figure things out, while dramonic just doesn't care. Despite endless questions to people with no followup, Skybird is also very limited on reads. And when she does give reads, it's when she's called out for it, and the reasons are either very general or just amount to "looks bad".

Just because you don't see direction to my questions doesn't mean I don't have one. I have followed up on some of the questions and other questions didn't bring responses that seemed off so yeah, I didn't follow up on them.

Spoiler: last Skybird posts since her pistachion unvote

Announcement: pistachi0n is town-aligned.

UNVOTE: pistachion

Because literally the only thing she did was pop in, unvote and leave. No comment at all on Pist being IC or how shifty that wagon was.

What's there to comment about? Pist is now confirmed town. I voted her because I have True Ogre as town. It turns out through Mod communication that Pist is town. I unvoted. Then RL intervened and I had to go do other stuff.

Dram, I think you are wrong on your Davesaz read. I feel he is town here. He hasn't been very active but he is reading the thread and asking questions.

You've commented on Axel. What about Podo makes you think he's scum?

Welcome Marquis!

Pistach, I get better as the game goes on.

What's bothering me is why you feel the need to talk about this at all.

You brought it up as a scum point against me. I'm responding with the truth.

After looking at last night's actions, how has that changed your reads?

Pist, I don't think you answered this yet. Who do you think is scum on the ranger wagon?

Pist, I don't think you answered this yet. Who do you think is scum on the ranger wagon?

Who do you think is scum? When are we going to all realise you're town?

-snip-

I'm having a hard time figuring scum out. I still think FS is scummy, but am concerned that everyone else seems to have shifted away from them. Their posting did change about halfway through D1. FS is smart enough to know that they were being scum read and to shift their comments to seem more town. I also don't think fruit (wig) vendor is AI.

I'm leaning more scum now on tictac. I read through his ISO a few days ago and didn't see much to indicate to me he was scum, but I also didn't see a lot to indicate he was town. That hasn't changed much since I read his ISO and think he could be scum skating by.

I apologize because I'm going to have to finish this up when I get back. Husband just informed me that we have to leave NOW to go look at a boat we are thinking of buying.

Welcome itlepip!

I'm not sure what you mean with post 2648. Do you mean you tried to read him and can't quite figure him out? Or did you try to engage him? lynch him? What exactly did you try to do?

who are your next best guesses for scum?

tictac

@everyone: I've been coming down with a 39ºC fever, hopefully this'll resolve soon, im not stating V/LA because i've already been inactive enough if it lasts enough to last past prod timer then i suggest i am replaced instead of prodded.

I hope you get to feeling better soon! Having a fever sucks.

Pist, I don't think you answered this yet. Who do you think is scum on the ranger wagon?

Who do you think is scum? When are we going to all realise you're town?

-snip-

I'm having a hard time figuring scum out. I still think FS is scummy, but am concerned that everyone else seems to have shifted away from them. Their posting did change about halfway through D1. FS is smart enough to know that they were being scum read and to shift their comments to seem more town. I also don't think fruit (wig) vendor is AI.

I'm leaning more scum now on tictac. I read through his ISO a few days ago and didn't see much to indicate to me he was scum, but I also didn't see a lot to indicate he was town. That hasn't changed much since I read his ISO and think he could be scum skating by.

I apologize because I'm going to have to finish this up when I get back. Husband just informed me that we have to leave NOW to go look at a boat we are thinking of buying.

True Ogre, I wanted to get back to you on this since I didn't get a chance to finish out.

I want to scum read Mirhawk but I am going back and forth on this read. Part of the reason I want to scum read him is because he is scum reading me and I agree that is a really shitty reason to scum read someone. I don't think he's right on Dave being scum. I have Dave as town. Most of the things Mirhawk has pointed out against Dave are him asking meaningless questions and not taking strong stances. But town is going to disagree on who we think are scum so again, this isn't a strong reason for scum reading him. I did like post 879 from Mirhawk. That really reads town to me. I don't agree with calling FS town just because they are a fruit vendor which Mirhawk is basically doing. If I was a mod this would be a great scum role just because most people do read it as a town role. I also didn't like that Mirhawk didn't seem to give any consideration to those of us saying Ranger was town. Anyway, this is basically the argument I am having with myself about whether Mirhawk is town or scum.

After reading the conversation between Cakez and Mirhawk, Mirhawk is moving up on my town list. I feel he has made some good points on Cakez.

-snip-

I still kind of think Seniors is town.

You're probably right. I don't think your wagon analysis piece was going to result in anything productive;

two town counter wagons doesn't really mean much with how the scum team was behaving.

-snip-

Why is this game dead all of a sudden
Spiffeh y did you have to die with your great activity ugh
For the tictac case - just look at his posts on the last page and tell me that's not scum.

While I'll commend Cakez if he's scum here because this post is pretty decently ballsy, this post also feels pretty incredibly fake. As I've said before, I don't mind when people read into dead town's reads and all that good stuff but following them blindly when you didn't really follow the player that closely the day before is pretty fucking iffy, and these sorts of "I'll miss you Spiffeh!" posts never really ring true to me.

What do you mean by the bolded PP? How do you know how the scum team was behaving?

In the second part of the quote, I agree with the "I'll miss you Spiffeh" sentiment ringing false. Put this quote along with the "I tried to save you Ranger" quote from Cakez and he just feels incredibly scummy today.

I'm caught back up now and I think it's time to vote.

VOTE: Sir Cakez

(Note: "I also don't think fruit (wig) vendor is AI." What does that mean? Did nobody question it?)

For example with going to a townread on Mirhawk, her reasons just read like things scum think sound good. As in, after giving basic reasons to both townread and scumread Mirhawk that anyone could have or has already noticed, she finally settles on a weak townread because "I feel he has made some good points on Cakez".

Nacho can you honestly tell me her play doesn't look like scum "scumhunting" based on... how do I put it, what scum objectively think sounds good/reasonable? And based on who seems more agreeable versus more lynchable? Basically her posts and opinions (when she actually provides them when people actually ask for them) just feel so fake, going with the flow of opinion against each player, and just... asasdffaskjhf. HER PLAY IS JUST SO APPARENTLY SCUM TO ME SINCE DAY 1 AND I FEEL LIKE I'M STARING DOWN SOME SORT OF ROBOT ALIEN HYBRID THAT NOBODY ELSE SEES.

I'm having an extremely hard time buying that her posts this game, including the most recent ones, serve more of a purpose than scum coasting and trying to at least do more than the laziest town, which may or may not be me/dramonic.

ALSO IN CAPS, WHY DO WE KEEP DOING THIS THING WHERE MULTIPLE PEOPLE AGREE SHE'S SCUM, SHE DISAPPEARS OR SOMETHING, AND THEN WE VOTE OTHER PEOPLE FOR ACTIVELY LOOKING BAD AND NOT CARING INSTEAD OF INACTIVELY LOOKING BAD BUT TRYING TO LOOK GOOD.

I just. am so frustrated by all of this. like maybe my all caps-ing looks kind of unnecessary to everyone else but I don't get how we always have this pattern of multiple likely-town players agreeing on a scumread on a player but then shiny things happen and wooo! town wagons instead and blahhhh

On the Wig vendor being AI comment. This seems really clear to me so I don't know why you don't understand it. I have seen both scum fruit vendors and town fruit vendors. Therefore, I don't consider it alignment indicative and won't be considering their role in my evaluation of them being town or scum.

I have been very conflicted on my Mirhawk read as I pointed out in my post. At this point, I don't see enough reason to consider them scum so have them as weak town. Since you, Podo, agree with Marquis I am scum, why is it bad that I agree with Mirhawk's points on Cakez?

[podoboq]

OK, yeah, didn't realize Skybird's ISO was so short. Seems way too scattershot for my liking. I'm putting her as a scumread. If the wagon moves on Skybird, I'll jump in.

Marquis is right. VOTE: Skybird

I decided not to wait on you because I may be afk this afternoon.

I went through your ISO Podo and this is all I could find about you calling me scummy. The only thing here is you think my ISO is scattershot. What kind of thing is that to base a scum read on anyway? This is a large game with many people. Your subjective statement is pretty damn weak for calling me scum. Then you decide Marquis is right and vote me. Looks like a pretty opportunistic vote to me.

p-edit: I'll get to Marquis next.

You said you went through my ISO. You should see that for the most part, I only talk to people who are engaging with me on some level. There are quite a few people I haven't addressed significantly. That doesn't mean I'm null on them.

I don't know how you're getting "opportunistic" when you quoted a post from over two weeks ago where I said "If the wagon moves on Skybird, I'll jump in."

[podoboq]

This is subjective. I have been and always will be a low post count player. Look at all my other games and you will see that I never lead the post count. To say I have not been contributing is BS because I do have posts in the game and I do give reads on people, saying who I think is town and who I think is scum.

This is fair. But I'd like for you to respond with examples where you made a read that perhaps went against the fray, or contributed a read that didn't just look like following the flow of town.

Just because you don't see direction to my questions doesn't mean I don't have one. I have followed up on some of the questions and other questions didn't bring responses that seemed off so yeah, I didn't follow up on them.

I feel like you haven't followed up enough, but this is the kind of response I was looking for.

On the Wig vendor being AI comment. This seems really clear to me so I don't know why you don't understand it. I have seen both scum fruit vendors and town fruit vendors. Therefore, I don't consider it alignment indicative and won't be considering their role in my evaluation of them being town or scum.

Yup, I got this. I don't agree on Wig Vendor being NAI, but I understood what you were saying, and think that your belief is one that town could easily hold.

I have been very conflicted on my Mirhawk read as I pointed out in my post. At this point, I don't see enough reason to consider them scum so have them as weak town. Since you, Podo, agree with Marquis I am scum, why is it bad that I agree with Mirhawk's points on Cakez?

I think Mirhawk's recent line of questioning on Cakez is completely hollow. Specifically, his attacks on Cakez for not being active enough in support of Ranger. Being swayed by that is not something I'm very happy about, but the IC also was convinced, so it's not something I'm scumreading that significantly from you.

What strikes me as odd is that you don't comment on it enough to justify the bad read.

I agree with the "I'll miss you Spiffeh" sentiment ringing false. Put this quote along with the "I tried to save you Ranger" quote from Cakez and he just feels incredibly scummy today.

This is about all that you see with regard to a Cakez scumread today. That and "I feel (Mirhawk) has made some good points on Cakez."

This strikes

me

as opportunistic, because not only are you not providing enough reason to support the vote (which is what you're accusing me of), but you're voting somewhere you shouldn't be, claiming to sheep logic I think is faulty.

[Axelrod]

Weekend catch-up. I'm going to break this up into several posts for readability.

I wanted Cakez to case you because 1) I'm a bit lazy, and 2) I don't

know

that Cakez is town, and I wanted to see him make a solid case. If he couldn't do it (which he did), then it gives me more reason to suspect him. It was a chance to get a better read on Cakez, so I took it.

You thought that case was solid? Did you read my post where I pointed out all the misreps?

I'm thinking I'll just claim right now. I was thinking about this earlier and I think it could get confusing if I get NK'd and it's up in the air. What do you think?

I know you didn't ask me this question, but the answer is: is this information that you have more valuable known to the Town than hidden from the scum? And that's something only you can really assess.

Mirhawk ftr I'm pretty sure that cake is town here. I know he is scummy but I dare you to find a game where cakez isn't scummy as either alignments. He has moments in this game that show some real town mentality that I don't think is fakable from his slot.

TWL is a bit easier, Mala in my experience hates playing scum and fades once she's put down a few good town posts. I played with her in my first newbie where she was scum and have two or three times after that (at least one of which where she was scum in a hydra with plotinus). After a strong entry Mala just... disappeared. Ploti was always giving her excuses for it - and obviously that could *is* RL-related as I don't expect either of them to actually lie as either alignment - but the entrance here rings really familiar with that PlottinKittehs game for me. And it's just unfortunate that GM disappeared because now the slot is actually a placeholder.

So, leaning scum, but at the least want the slot to *do* something - even if that means replacing.

Grouping these two posts together just because they illustrate another problem I'm having with this game, which is the sheer amount of "meta" reading that's been going on. Maybe it just looks that way to me coming in here as essentially the "outsider" (despite having been here longer than any of you guys ), but this game seems super-inbred. Everything is "I know X, and this is how X plays (as scum or town)"; or "X always plays like this (~scummy), so it's not alignment indicative..."; or "this is just how X played in (some other game)." It's actually wearing me down. Not only is this kind of "analysis" super-unhelpful to me personally, I also happen to think it's just poor play. Because, frankly, you're probably not as good at reading whoever this other person is as you think you are. People can mimic their "town" games as scum. And people

can

totally change how they play from one game to another.

I know it's somewhat inevitable when you get a group together that has played together a lot - obviously we have this where I play most regularly - but what's going on in this game seems extreme. I think we'd do a lot better to leave most of that kind of argument at the door, and focus more on behaviors in this game.

[davesaz]

I mean in comparison to Tarot this isn't that elaborate. Very standard roles flipped here so far.

Still think this after True Ogre v. Pistachi0n?

[Axelrod]

Also I need to ask Rob a question, but if I'm right:re my role, if I'm at L-2 -- treat me like I'm at L-1 until I get further notice from Rob.

I'm just noting this for future reference. Someone remind me later if I forget.

Actually we started with 21. So yeah 4 scum at most I would think.

Ditto.

OMFG Dave

Has anyone OTHER then me looked at his iso and noted how he hasn't done ANYTHING useful today.

I have noticed.

I'm tired of scum coasting, but we can't have everything we want.

Do we have Irony Awards on this site? If so, can I nominate this post?

You and podo needs to ask Daves if he understands what coasting means so he can teach you, cuz you're both

really

missing the mark.

We appear to be lynching town. Again.
Can we not?

At risk of ruining your perfect record of ignoring me, which Town are we lynching Dram?

I still kind of think Seniors is town.

You're probably right. I don't think your wagon analysis piece was going to result in anything productive; two town counter wagons doesn't really mean much with how the scum team was behaving.

This caught me up. What do you mean here with "how the scum team was behaving?"

I'm caught back up now and I think it's time to vote.

VOTE: Sir Cakez

Egh. This vote gives me the willies. I really despise naked votes with zero explanations/justifications. Especially on leading wagons. Skybird review incomming.

If I had to consolidate, it'd be on VOTE: Axel for his posts reeking of effort concealing motivation.

?

I have no idea what this even means.

[davesaz]

I'm caught back up now and I think it's time to vote.

VOTE: Sir Cakez

Egh. This vote gives me the willies. I really despise naked votes with zero explanations/justifications. Especially on leading wagons. Skybird review incomming.

If she's town, and I'm pretty sure she is, I believe that voting the other leading wagon is the way that town keeps themselves from getting lynched.
I believe she had previously given reasons on Cakez, but am not positive on that.

[podoboq]

I'm caught back up now and I think it's time to vote.

VOTE: Sir Cakez

Egh. This vote gives me the willies. I really despise naked votes with zero explanations/justifications. Especially on leading wagons. Skybird review incomming.

If she's town, and I'm pretty sure she is, I believe that voting the other leading wagon is the way that town keeps themselves from getting lynched.
I believe she had previously given reasons on Cakez, but am not positive on that.

I will address other things when I get a moment, in class, but I believe that vote from Skybird came

before

a wagon started to form against her.

[Axelrod]

VOTE: Podo Dram is actually just town this game, sry mate.

The hell? Since when? The only thing I've heard people arguing is that Dram is "unreadable" or that he always plays like this whether he's Town or scum so what would be scummy behavior from someone else is not alignment indicative

from him

. And even if I was going to accept that - because everyone is saying it therefore it must be so - where are you getting that this is "Town" Dram? What could he have possibly done for you to get a "Town" read?

He shouldn't honestly be vigged either.

I suggest shooting between podo, tic and axel.

This has got to be the most god-awful thing suggested in this game to this point thus far. And I'm not even a huge fan of TicTac. Seriously, what the Hell?

dramonic vote for PP w/ me please

Dram no vote with me.

If either of you can provide me with a good reason to ignore obvscum Axel, then sure?

podo is probably also scum.

Jester is bastard, whoever mentioned that.
Dram who are the 3 scum?

axel podo davesaz

VOTE: Seniors

I am going to stop throwing hissy fits and actually play the game properly now

That`s a really short time to contradict yourself.

8 terrible votes on the wall
8 terrible votes~

want me to drive the wagon off them and onto you?

~M

A shitty vote up there or a shitty vote on me, what does it matter?

Dram are you townreading Seniors and Mirhawk seriously?

More than the other three by a large margin.

You'll notice that two of my three scumreads are on my wagon.
HOW CONVENIENT!~

EDIT: I don't think cakez likes me.
EDITx2: I play like this when scum is running around being obv. Why the fuck would I put an effort in the game with three scums screamin around and being ignored?

All of these posts are super towny. His reads are relatively solid, he had issues with beeboy and cakez's posts, two people who are super easy MLs, and doesn't even include either of them is his scum pile. He's not in my townbloc yet but he's isn't that far from getting in there. He never should be a vig shot and super never should be lynched today. I'll protect Dram with my life if I have to.

Zero of those posts are towny. The fact that you call his reads "solid" is laughable. They've been

consistent

, but what's solid about that? He's listed the same three people as being scum forever, never argued any of them, and said literally nothing else.

This is what kills me. This kind of play would be the easiest thing ever for scum to pull. Especially if he's known for doing nothing. If all Dram has to do to be considered "town" is pick someone to vote and then proceed to do nothing but call them scum for the rest of the game, while pointedly and repeatedly ignoring all requests for more explanation, then why the hell would he ever do anything differently?

I think podo already argued a lot of this. But, Jesus, it's driving me nuts.

Am I the only person that has a problem with this? Am I just a bad player, or is itlepip just wrong here?

You are not wrong.

Guess what, just because someone doesn't provide reasoning doesn't automatically make something NAI. Looking at what the read is and the timing of it can also give you a read. I understand if you can't read it, but when someone comes along in a generally townread slot and says, yo, this easily could be town, I'm not sure why town would doubtcast that

What is "NAI?"

Also, I don't understand the rest of this point. Who is the person coming along in a "generally townread" slot and what are they saying? How is this improving your opinion of Dramonic?

Okay, that's just not how the game works. Depending on the size of the game, scum need to achieve a certain amount of mislynches to win, with certain roles such as vig and medic affecting that number. What needs to happen for town is to get a few extra scum flips early so that if we do end up in lylo its at worst a 5p and not the awful 7p which 999/1000 times scum just win. Even if you think Dram is 100% unreadable here, unless you have nobody in the game who you think has greater than a rounabouts 4/20 something chance of being scum Dram shouldn't be killed right now. All you are doing right now is again 16/20 times just lowering the necessary mislynch counter by 1 while providing town with nothing to go off of. You are either super lazy town that doesn't want to try to solve the game or just scum

You appear to be switching up your arguments again. This is back to "Dram is unreadable, and lynching him is basically a coin-flip, therefore, any lynch where you at least have some feeling that the person is actively scum is better." That's very different from "I think Dram is Town." Also, I completely reject the idea that Dram is just a coin flip. I

actively

think his odds of being scum are higher than most other players in this game.

His reads are solid in that I can verify that they are coming from a town standpoint and this feels like townplay to me. I think that you are fairly likely to be scum here, but even if you are town here the thought process from Dram is still towny.

Town never have 100% reads,

you can't try to read people based on the accuracy of their reads, but in whether or not the reads came from town or scum.

I'm bolding your own point. What the Hell? All Dram has done is adamantly vote for the same person (me) the entire game, while declaring the same group of three people scum for the entirely of the game, with 0 wavering. You say, "Town never have 100% reads" and yet, you are declaring Dram Town?

damn it

VOTE: Axel

I don't even....

VOTE: Skybird

GI tell is a tell that GI used against me one game and then taught me and now I use it. Basically I think Axel is approaching the game in a kinda scummy way/mindset.

You are like the umpteenth person to express vague feelings of dislike about my play without pointing to anything specific that I can explain/rebut. It's actually getting a bit frustrating. And, again, I feel like it's coming from lack of familiarly and me basically being the person on the outside of the cool kids club.

I would love for you to explain this "tell" so I can show you where you're wrong. I don't know what else I can do.

I was really reading Beeboy as Town, but now I'm really not so sure anymore.

I'll be here later, but I'm liking a lot of everyone on the last page so

...

I'll be here later, but I'm liking a lot of everyone on the last page so

That's... a really useless statement.
Zero opinions, just hearts for everyone, really?

I almost agree with Dramonic, unbelievable. Except that, of course, he's being a complete and total hypocrit here.

[Friendless Seniors]

VOTE: the wrong lynch

this feels like scum. big time. The coasting feels like scum coasting over town coasting. Even yesterday was primarily just butting headss with tammy rather than actual content

[Marquis]

just vote skybird, hippy. i've already been reining in the urge to vote you.

(hint: FS is a great great vig shot, along with maybe cerb or axel)

[THE WRONG WAGON]

replace the wrong lynch with maLa.

If gm comes back I'll swap it out again >_<

[THE WRONG WAGON]

VOTE: the wrong lynch

this feels like scum. big time. The coasting feels like scum coasting over town coasting. Even yesterday was primarily just butting headss with tammy rather than actual content

TAmmy and I butt heads a lot of games.

[Friendless Seniors]

just vote skybird, hippy. i've already been reining in the urge to vote you.

(hint: FS is a great great vig shot, along with maybe cerb or axel)

1. we're pretty obviously town
2. we are active except for this weekend

give me a fucking break. I was going to vote skybird until that TWL post last page that dram posted

[Malakittens]

Actually you weren't active for the beginning of the game. You acted like a spoiled brat because you were being voted against. >.>

[Marquis]

don't care hippy. this is mala's town game, and even then we're lynching skybird.

actually now that cheetory mafia is done, i can say that you adopted the same indignant response to tunneling here that you did when we were scum together in cheetory mafia. i'm not too confident because a lot of that in cheetory mafia was on spiffeh's end, but you're on my shortlist for scum after skybird's lynch.

[podoboq]

Actually you weren't active for the beginning of the game. You acted like a spoiled brat because you were being voted against. >.>

^^ yup ^^

Still don't want to lynch FS anymore, but I mean, you're not wrong.

[itlepip]

The reason I think that Axel could easily be scum here is that all of his posts don't feel like genuine analysis but feel like he is trying to achieve a specific goal with each post. He makes sure that he has evidence for all of his claims based on some sort of theory, but its not particularly focused on game solving.

VOTE: Podo Dram is actually just town this game, sry mate.

The hell? Since when? The only thing I've heard people arguing is that Dram is "unreadable" or that he always plays like this whether he's Town or scum so what would be scummy behavior from someone else is not alignment indicative

from him

. And even if I was going to accept that - because everyone is saying it therefore it must be so - where are you getting that this is "Town" Dram? What could he have possibly done for you to get a "Town" read?

For example take this. The way that multiquoting works is that Axel knows that I explain this later. Yet because his purpose of this post is 'push pip' he leaves it in cause it looks better even though there is no way this is an actual content since I explain this later.

He shouldn't honestly be vigged either.

I suggest shooting between podo, tic and axel.

This has got to be the most god-awful thing suggested in this game to this point thus far. And I'm not even a huge fan of TicTac. Seriously, what the Hell?

Yes, because shooting between people that I think are scum is so much worse than shooting someone I think is town...

dramonic vote for PP w/ me please

Dram no vote with me.

If either of you can provide me with a good reason to ignore obvscum Axel, then sure?

podo is probably also scum.

Jester is bastard, whoever mentioned that.
Dram who are the 3 scum?

axel podo davesaz

VOTE: Seniors

I am going to stop throwing hissy fits and actually play the game properly now

That`s a really short time to contradict yourself.

8 terrible votes on the wall
8 terrible votes~

want me to drive the wagon off them and onto you?

~M

A shitty vote up there or a shitty vote on me, what does it matter?

Dram are you townreading Seniors and Mirhawk seriously?

More than the other three by a large margin.

:P

You'll notice that two of my three scumreads are on my wagon.
HOW CONVENIENT!~

EDIT: I don't think cakez likes me.
EDITx2: I play like this when scum is running around being obv. Why the fuck would I put an effort in the game with three scums screamin around and being ignored?

All of these posts are super towny. His reads are relatively solid, he had issues with beeboy and cakez's posts, two people who are super easy MLs, and doesn't even include either of them is his scum pile. He's not in my townbloc yet but he's isn't that far from getting in there. He never should be a vig shot and super never should be lynched today. I'll protect Dram with my life if I have to.

Zero of those posts are towny. The fact that you call his reads "solid" is laughable. They've been

consistent

, but what's solid about that? He's listed the same three people as being scum forever, never argued any of them, and said literally nothing else.

This is what kills me. This kind of play would be the easiest thing ever for scum to pull. Especially if he's known for doing nothing. If all Dram has to do to be considered "town" is pick someone to vote and then proceed to do nothing but call them scum for the rest of the game, while pointedly and repeatedly ignoring all requests for more explanation, then why the hell would he ever do anything differently?

It is but you have to realize that Dram knows that this isn't a style that can get him to endgame 99% of the time. When you are below a certain post marker your posts don't really matter and the fact that he was still trying to gamesolve instead of jumping on easy targets. Also the fact that I agree with most of his reads and everyone that I'm scumreading is attacking me for townreading him makes me feel pretty good about that slot.

I think podo already argued a lot of this. But, Jesus, it's driving me nuts.

Am I the only person that has a problem with this? Am I just a bad player, or is itlepip just wrong here?

You are not wrong.

Guess what, just because someone doesn't provide reasoning doesn't automatically make something NAI. Looking at what the read is and the timing of it can also give you a read. I understand if you can't read it, but when someone comes along in a generally townread slot and says, yo, this easily could be town, I'm not sure why town would doubtcast that

What is "NAI?"

Also, I don't understand the rest of this point. Who is the person coming along in a "generally townread" slot and what are they saying? How is this improving your opinion of Dramonic?

I was talking about my read on Podo not the Dram read.

Okay, that's just not how the game works. Depending on the size of the game, scum need to achieve a certain amount of mislynches to win, with certain roles such as vig and medic affecting that number. What needs to happen for town is to get a few extra scum flips early so that if we do end up in lylo its at worst a 5p and not the awful 7p which 999/1000 times scum just win. Even if you think Dram is 100% unreadable here, unless you have nobody in the game who you think has greater than a rounabouts 4/20 something chance of being scum Dram shouldn't be killed right now. All you are doing right now is again 16/20 times just lowering the necessary mislynch counter by 1 while providing town with nothing to go off of. You are either super lazy town that doesn't want to try to solve the game or just scum

You appear to be switching up your arguments again. This is back to "Dram is unreadable, and lynching him is basically a coin-flip, therefore, any lynch where you at least have some feeling that the person is actively scum is better." That's very different from "I think Dram is Town." Also, I completely reject the idea that Dram is just a coin flip. I

actively

think his odds of being scum are higher than most other players in this game.

Nope! 2 reasons. A). This is what you pulled in your first post which is 'even if I take what you guys are saying and his is 100% unreadable your play is still wrong' B. Yeah yell at me for calling him town but don't explain this, I get it.

His reads are solid in that I can verify that they are coming from a town standpoint and this feels like townplay to me. I think that you are fairly likely to be scum here, but even if you are town here the thought process from Dram is still towny.

Town never have 100% reads,

you can't try to read people based on the accuracy of their reads, but in whether or not the reads came from town or scum.

I'm bolding your own point. What the Hell? All Dram has done is adamantly vote for the same person (me) the entire game, while declaring the same group of three people scum for the entirely of the game, with 0 wavering. You say, "Town never have 100% reads" and yet, you are declaring Dram Town?

Again this is 'Axel needs to make sure that Dram is used for one of the MLs at some point and attack Pip" and he tries to base it on some kind of theory but this makes no sense. You don't read my post and come out with that analysis, this is analysis that came from a preconceived notion of what this post was going to be. Guess what, town tunnel, not only do they tunnel, but they tunnel all the time and it can be on town if somehow you are that. Saying that because a read is wrong they have to be mafia is super lazy and proba ly just mafia. Dram isn't in my towncircle, but I think we really really need a scumflip soon to be able to win this game and Dram isn't someone I think is particularly likely to do that.

damn it

VOTE: Axel

I don't even....

You should try it at some point, it's fun.

VOTE: Skybird

GI tell is a tell that GI used against me one game and then taught me and now I use it. Basically I think Axel is approaching the game in a kinda scummy way/mindset.

You are like the umpteenth person to express vague feelings of dislike about my play without pointing to anything specific that I can explain/rebut. It's actually getting a bit frustrating. And, again, I feel like it's coming from lack of familiarly and me basically being the person on the outside of the cool kids club.

I would love for you to explain this "tell" so I can show you where you're wrong. I don't know what else I can do.

The tell is that you are coming into your posts with the intention of writing what you just wrote. Instead of adapting it to what you read.

I was really reading Beeboy as Town, but now I'm really not so sure anymore.

I'll be here later, but I'm liking a lot of everyone on the last page so

...

I'll be here later, but I'm liking a lot of everyone on the last page so

That's... a really useless statement.
Zero opinions, just hearts for everyone, really?

I almost agree with Dramonic, unbelievable. Except that, of course, he's being a complete and total hypocrit here.

[Malakittens]

Marquis do me a favor and explain how this is my town game? I'm just curious because of my lack of time that I haven't really been able to give the game the time it rightfully deserves so I'm curious to see what's pinging you to this read.
(Wow I can't phrase that right. I know what I'm
Trying to say but can't say it .-.-)

[hiplop]

personality tell marquis... cmon.

I was inactive at the start because it was frustrating as hell

[hiplop]

and like sorry marquis but how are you allowed to talk about people being inactive...

[podoboq]

I wanted Cakez to case you because 1) I'm a bit lazy, and 2) I don't

know

that Cakez is town, and I wanted to see him make a solid case. If he couldn't do it (which he did), then it gives me more reason to suspect him. It was a chance to get a better read on Cakez, so I took it.

You thought that case was solid? Did you read my post where I pointed out all the misreps?

I actually just skimmed it. Went back and read it more deeply. I see what you're seeing, but I don't think they're misreps. It made me a bit more suspicious of Cakez, but not enough to flip my perspective on him. Just shake it.

[Mirhawk]

Tictac is a much higher scumread and I was trying to crack info out of Skybird. She's posted some stuff now so back to Tictac.

Shouldn't you be switching to me if that your voting criteria? What information were you hoping to get out of Skybird, did you get what you were looking for? You must have been satisfied by her response to change your vote, why were you satisfied?

[Mirhawk]

In response to Pipers 2792.

I was the one you jumped on for the comment about TWL's activity. I also feel like noting that I found your response at the time to be "fucking weird" as it was completely out of proportion to my comment on TWL in the first place. I thought my comment was a perfectly reasonable question seeing as how at that point it was not apparent that GM had disappeared and I was expecting her to help pick up Mala's slack. Your response was that I was a terrible person for even bringing it up.

Second, I'm pretty sure you're confusing me with Axel. He was the one who did the VCA, not me.

The last point is directed at both you and ogre. Cakez had already declared day one before Rangers flip that if Ranger flipped town he was going to go for Tictac. I'm not that surprised he pushed Tictac right out of the gate, and definitely wouldn't assign townpoints to him for doing something he had previously said he was going to do.

[Mirhawk]

My initial thoughts on Cakez is fairly obvious given what I've already claimed and goes to the nature of my own result. Which is why I don't really want to talk about it and I thought you'd be clever enough to pick up on it.

wtf?