Newbie 1700 - GAME OVER

[BTD6_maker]

1. BTD6_maker
2. GMT
3. What is NOC exactly? Does it only refer to online communication?
4. Sometimes, but scum are rarely caught out by them.
5. No
6. Red
7. Do you think dice votes are bad during the RVS and why?
Yes, because they are against the spirit of the RVS.
Tojam2 7. This is my first MS game. In my last Meatworld game, I was Dayvig, I felt the adjacent person's arm move when Mafia Godfather was called, and was killed Night 0. Truly the most frustrating experience.

[Ghostwheel]

Hi! I'm one of the two Semi-Experienced Players in this game, it basically means that we've played at least 2 Newbie games, and 1 other game type. If you have any general game questions and Huntress (our IC) isn't around, feel free to ask us.

1. Tom
2. GMT+1 (British Summer Time)
3. None, I've only ever played on here and on another website for another game which we occasionally play Mafia together on.
4. Depends what they're about, if they're about a new game mode, fine, if they're about my last game, I'm pissed.
5. No, but who would say yes anyway?
6. Green, although it used to be purple, my favourite dual-tone is red and green.
7. What role were you in your last completed game, what powers did you have and how/when did you die?

Why not answer your own question 7? (As for me no game I was in has been completed so I won't talk about them but you can find Newbie 1694, 1696 if you are curious about my history here.)

Why RNG your random vote? That makes it literally useless.

Why choose a favorite color of green, when green is the color of the blood money handled by the Mafia?

[Ghostwheel]

1. BTD6_maker
2. GMT
3. What is NOC exactly? Does it only refer to online communication?
4. Sometimes, but scum are rarely caught out by them.
5. No
6. Red
7. Do you think dice votes are bad during the RVS and why?
Yes, because they are against the spirit of the RVS.
Tojam2 7. This is my first MS game. In my last Meatworld game, I was Dayvig, I felt the adjacent person's arm move when Mafia Godfather was called, and was killed Night 0. Truly the most frustrating experience.

NOC refers to games where you are not allowed to speak with players about the game outside of the thread. Like this one!

As I just mentioned I think RNG votes are stupid in RVS.

Why choose a favorite color of Red, when red is the color associated with the blood on the hands of the Mafia?

[BTD6_maker]

OK. Then I have not had any NOC before this. My Meatworld mafia was quite informal, with people discussing in the breaks between playing. (Due to limited time, we had to play in several sittings, sometimes over a few days. It was essentially a large Role Madness.)

Surely you can associate almost every colour with something about Mafia. Also, your favourite colour is "blood on the hands of the Mafia".

[Huntress]

Vote: Ghostwheel

It's a weak scum read, but all I've got so far.

[BTD6_maker]

Can you please explain your scum read? Exactly what tells were you looking for? Unfortunately no one can feel his arm so some basic information would be helpful.

[Ghostwheel]

Surely you can associate almost every colour with something about Mafia. Also, your favourite colour is "blood on the hands of the Mafia".

Surely you can, but only I know the correct answers to my own questions. I have no need to use my own favorite color to determine my own alignment, so if someone tries to cheat by copying my answers it won't work. There are also many other questions, so my joke/cheeky answers are just one way to expand on them.

I answer everyone's question 7, and pick apart anything of note. Or people can call me dumb and vote me and that'll start discussion anyway, which is all I really wanted to accomplish.

[BTD6_maker]

I know we are against dice voting in general, but is it a genuine (if weak) scum tell? It would seem that scum are more likely to deliberately avoid accidentally slipping up or dropping tells during RVS. P.S. Red is my genuine favourite colour.

[Ghostwheel]

Nah I think a scum would dice vote and not say it was dice vote if they were thinking about it. I think most people don't care about RVS (like me) and just want to go through the ritual of it. That doesn't mean it's not worth asking dice voters why they do it, because their answer can be more telling.

You don't add up strong or weak strong or town tells to get some kind of scum scalar, you track personality and attempt to understand motivation.

Huntress feel free to vote me if you want, but I hope you'll at least be cooperative and answer my questions. You can also press me on anything you find scummy about me and then I'll defend myself or other people can understand your vote better.

[cytheflyguy]

So with Mafia versus Town of Salem, is there a time limit to a day's length (maybe I misread it idk) or does it end only when there are enough votes for something.

Day ends immediately one player has five votes placed on them, but if that doesn't happen before the time limit for the Day (which is two weeks) runs out then we don't get a lynch for that Day. There is no need to use all the two weeks but it's worth taking most of it, at least on Day one, to get plenty of interaction to look back on after we get flips.

Ah ok

[Huntress]

Can you please explain your scum read? Exactly what tells were you looking for?

It was the opening sentence of post 19 that initially gave me a scum vibe. It felt a bit overplayed and gave the impression that he was trying to move the game on while actually delaying the movement of the game out of rvs with his questions. Often by this point we'd be starting to move out of rvs. It's not the possible delay that I think was scum-motivated, but the wanting to appear to be doing something.

The questions themselves were mostly irrelevant but the seventh one bothered me. One of the main concerns I have with this sort of general questioning is that they could be used for role-fishing. Ghost didn't include anything himself that could be used that way but his last question opened the door to someone else asking something, either intentionally or accidently, that could be used that way. What it on purpose or not? I don't know but I'm wary of it.

[Huntress]

I know we are against dice voting in general, but is it a genuine (if weak) scum tell? It would seem that scum are more likely to deliberately avoid accidentally slipping up or dropping tells during RVS.

Using any form of provable randomness is frowned on here but just

saying

you've done so, not so much, so there's no way to know whether or not a vote was genuinely random or not. I agree that scum will sometimes disown their vote by saying it's random but town do it too quite a bit so I think it's only a slight scum tell.

You don't add up strong or weak strong or town tells to get some kind of scum scalar, you track personality and attempt to understand motivation.

I agree with you on motivation, but personality is a player tell rather than an alignment tell and it takes careful use of meta to get a read off of it. Scum tells certainly exist but are never definitive; they are just one of several tools for scum-hunting.

[Rob14]

Vote Count #1.1:

karnos:

Ghostwheel, cytheflyguy (2)

cytheflyguy:

karnos (1)

Huntress:

RadiantCowbells (1)

RadiantCowbells:

BTD6_maker (1)

BTD6_maker:

tojam2 (1)

Ghostwheel:

Huntress (1)

Not Voting:

Hoppic, thatguy

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

V/LA:

None.

Deadline:

(expired on 2016-05-03 19:00:00)

[karnos]

OK I'm getting bored because apparently the scum are too smart to slip up during RVS (shocker!) and people don't even seem to be making random votes, jokes, or the absurd overreactions people are usually happy to call out for the sole purpose of advancing the game so I'm doing an RQS. Deal with it.

1. What's your name?
2. What's your time zone?
3. How much NOC (no outside communication) experience do you have?
4. Do you think questionnaires serve to advance the game or are they distracting?
5. Are you Mafia?
6. What is your favorite color?
7. If you could add one question to this questionnaire, what would it be? Answer it.

1. Karnos
2. EDT. Daylight savings is stupid and pointless with modern technology, but I have to go along with it to properly function in the area I live.
3. Lots of games on another forum, but only one previous game here. The other forum's games were run in a much faster pace and casual form, so this is a very different game experience for me.
4. I think this one is fine. I think it would be annoying if every single player had their own set of questions, but a single set of questions is reasonable.
5. I am not mafia.
6. I like orange sports cars, black computers (some would argue black isn't a color), and blue shirts.
7a. My last game I was the townie tracker. I failed to pick any mafia to track though, so it didn't help much, and then I asked for Dr protection at night because I thought I had already revealed too much in a game where we didn't actually have a doctor. Town lost.
7b. I don't see any issue with random votes on day one. The point is, in my understanding, to get people to talk. You know literally nothing about your fellow players before they speak, so any one of them is equally likely to be mafia, so a random pick is as good as any other. However, I do think singular random votes don't actually do much, the real interesting information is what you get from people at L-2 or L-1, desperation and fear can cause a scum to slip up. Case in point: while I have 2 votes against me, I am not feeling very pressured because it would take several more votes to actually lynch me. Though, I will reiterate that I am a town player and lynching me day 1 wouldn't help the town.

[Ghostwheel]

Personality is not alignment indicative but it is very important for determining what scumtells are effective and in constructing proper motivations.

I put question 7 out there as a way for there to be back-and-forth, as I said I'll answer all your questions. It also lets people be creative and scumhunt in their own way. If someone asks a role fishing question they can get called out for it. Why is it then my fault?

Call it overplayed but I've seen rvs go down a lot of times and it's never productive. I would easily call us out of RVS now so I have no clue where you were going with that.

Most of the questions seem irrelevant (1 makes quoting easier and 2 is for ease of understanding posting habits better so yeah they actually are) but the others tell me what kind of things people focus on in the early game.

I don't think I deserve to appear town for this, I can assure you that as scum I'd make an effort to play pro town, and I should be judged when I have actual opinions to make.

[Ghostwheel]

Things I find notable so far:

-Huntress, even with a clear outlet to express discontent in #4, chooses to be uncooperative.

-Tojam2's question could be read as role fishing, but likely is a way to read playstyle that I wouldn't have thought of because it's more experience based. (I try to use intuition from similar games to read people). Kinda curious what people think about this.

-After making clear that my color question was a reaction test, karnos chooses 3 colors and attributes them to objects.

-No one so far likes to be funny.

[thatguy]

I am here, and I have read nothing so far. Doing some work; will get back on tonight if I have time to actually do shit.

[RadiantCowbells]

Towny {Karnos}
Nulltown: {Ghostwheel}

Nullscum: {Huntress}

[RadiantCowbells]

I know we are against dice voting in general, but is it a genuine (if weak) scum tell? It would seem that scum are more likely to deliberately avoid accidentally slipping up or dropping tells during RVS.

Using any form of provable randomness is frowned on here but just

saying

you've done so, not so much, so there's no way to know whether or not a vote was genuinely random or not. I agree that scum will sometimes disown their vote by saying it's random but town do it too quite a bit so I think it's only a slight scum tell.

You don't add up strong or weak strong or town tells to get some kind of scum scalar, you track personality and attempt to understand motivation.

I agree with you on motivation, but personality is a player tell rather than an alignment tell and it takes careful use of meta to get a read off of it. Scum tells certainly exist but are never definitive; they are just one of several tools for scum-hunting.

I hate this post and I'm trying to work out why.

[thatguy]

Bad vibes from Karnos right now. Pings source from the bolded in the spoiler below: unnecessary town plugs, almost as a self-reassurance, and the overtly neutral reply to Ghost early on.

Spoiler:

OK I'm getting bored because apparently the scum are too smart to slip up during RVS (shocker!) and people don't even seem to be making random votes, jokes, or the absurd overreactions people are usually happy to call out for the sole purpose of advancing the game so I'm doing an RQS. Deal with it.

1. What's your name?
2. What's your time zone?
3. How much NOC (no outside communication) experience do you have?
4. Do you think questionnaires serve to advance the game or are they distracting?
5. Are you Mafia?
6. What is your favorite color?
7. If you could add one question to this questionnaire, what would it be? Answer it.

1. Karnos
2. EDT. Daylight savings is stupid and pointless with modern technology, but I have to go along with it to properly function in the area I live.
3. Lots of games on another forum, but only one previous game here. The other forum's games were run in a much faster pace and casual form, so this is a very different game experience for me.
4. I think this one is fine. I think it would be annoying if every single player had their own set of questions, but a single set of questions is reasonable.
5. I am not mafia.
6. I like orange sports cars, black computers (some would argue black isn't a color), and blue shirts.
7a. My last game I was the townie tracker. I failed to pick any mafia to track though, so it didn't help much, and then I asked for Dr protection at night because I thought I had already revealed too much in a game where we didn't actually have a doctor. Town lost.
7b. I don't see any issue with random votes on day one. The point is, in my understanding, to get people to talk. You know literally nothing about your fellow players before they speak, so any one of them is equally likely to be mafia, so a random pick is as good as any other. However, I do think singular random votes don't actually do much, the real interesting information is what you get from people at L-2 or L-1, desperation and fear can cause a scum to slip up. Case in point: while I have 2 votes against me, I am not feeling very pressured because it would take several more votes to actually lynch me.

Though, I will reiterate that I am a town player and lynching me day 1 wouldn't help the town

.

VOTE: karnos Your favorite method of RNG is guaranteed to pick on newbies? Such a bully.

I didn't realize that, but I suppose it might be the case.

I will reevaluate my plan next game, but it would ruin the experiment to change my vote right now.

OK I'm getting bored b

ecause apparently the scum are too smart to slip

up during RVS (shocker!) and people don't even seem to be making random votes, jokes, or the absurd overreactions people are usually happy to call out for the sole purpose of advancing the game so I'm doing an RQS. Deal with it.

Preflips determine that if Ghost is scum, another IC or respected player must also be scum. :^)

1. What's your name?
2. What's your time zone?
3. How much NOC (no outside communication) experience do you have?
4. Do you think questionnaires serve to advance the game or are they distracting?
5. Are you Mafia?
6. What is your favorite color?
7. If you could add one question to this questionnaire, what would it be? Answer it.

1) ThatGuy. Also responds to Guy.
2) PST
3) Bucketloads (if we're discounting the guys coaching me from over my shoulder rn :^) )
4) They serve a purpose in newbie games or, in general, games with newer players. I'll let you untangle that one since it's serving its purpose thus far.
5) Totes. :^)
6) Gray.


An the pro-town IC crap ensures, as per every newbie game in the existence of the universe. Hooray for ICs.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't understand how you have bad vibes from Karnos when they're my biggest townread thus far.

Walk me through it?

[thatguy]

He townplugs unnecessarily in the questionnaire responses. He has somewhat of an appeaser mentality when responding to questions. The RVS logic could stem from a newer mindset, but almost seems like scum setting themselves up early to dismiss low-velocity pressure vote wagons. Out of near everything I've read on these two surprisingly productive last two pages, Karnos pings me the most, Ghost a bit. Nothing else in particular thus far.

[thatguy]

Hey Cowbells, what's the difference between nulltown and nullscum?

[BTD6_maker]

I'm getting a nulltown from Ghostwheel and Huntress but a nullscum from Karnos. RadiantCowbells, can you please explain your townread on Karnos? Also, thatguy, from what I understand nulltown is a very weak townread.

[Hoppic]

Hi everyone. This is my first game.

VOTE: cytheflyguy

Here are the reasons why I think he's guilty. That comment about being innocent seems defensive, and even I know how long the day goes for, or at least I know where to look, so it's strange that he's so confident to vote for karnos (it's not entirely obvious how to do that vote highlighting thing) but asks that question.