Mini 1770: College Mafia! (Game Ovah)

[SirCakez]

I can go find it (and will, but tomorrow since I'm tired), I just find your resistance to this really pointless and untownie.

[GuiltyLion]

If that's the case, how on earth do you get to NH-scum? It would seem to me that, if you believe NH-scum, there's no real reason to believe there's a scum-RB.

Shaddowez and Fire both claimed to be roleblocked.

Are you paying attention? I can't imagine how you'd forget that if you were trying to solve the game

[GuiltyLion]

titus is yet to read but they told me they wouldn't cry if I voted zefiend ;D

Ew

zefiend is literally the towniest player to me right now

[Night Hunters]

titus is yet to read but they told me they wouldn't cry if I voted zefiend ;D

Ew

zefiend is literally the towniest player to me right now

guiltylion pls

[GuiltyLion]

Pls what? Why is zefiend scum?

[Night Hunters]

1. I cant recall them doing anything in the game.
2. Their post calling our flavor scum-aligned is reaching, terrible logic, and the tone is way off in the post.
3. Titus was scum reading them last night as well so they have more reasons but these are the ones I have realized.

[Night Hunters]

just throwing out there from reading ISOs I don't understand why titus and I considering all the possibilities and not just instantly assuming GL is scum and voting them is seen as scummy? Hate towncasing but why wouldn't we have pushed for the GL lynch yesterday (especially with nahdia townreading us [side not convenient they died being the only person townreading us] we could have tried to do that) so I guess my question is why didnt we try to lynch them?

no one has answered this

[massive]

Shaddowez and Fire both claimed to be roleblocked.

Are you paying attention? I can't imagine how you'd forget that if you were trying to solve the game

I didn't forget. I asked "where's the proof?" I'm pretty sure mathematically it's been proven that Fire at least lied about N1, which means that both he and Shaddowez can be explained by Fire's own "results." Or do you think Fire was telling the truth? If you do, why is NH claiming Fire lied just "ridiculous" (1519) and not flat out scummy?

[SirCakez]

I am intrigued that as I come in and start a hard push on scum the massive wagon disintegrates and the Cake wagon builds.

Thor comes in, WKs my wagon, and pushes STRONG on Firebringer, which leads me to think Firebringer is most likely town. But Thor makes references throughout D1 about SirCakez, about how (for instance, above) Cakez shouldn't be the counterwagon to my D1 wagon, but Firebringer should be.

He has some late interactions with Cakez after that, but it's almost always in context of the Firebringer push. He waffles about Cakez (eventually putting him to scum on par with FB but doing nothing about it), but abandons it at the beginning of D2 to chase Jeanne.

So I guess I go back and reread Cakez's wagon from D1 and then from there.

------

GL:

Why does scum-Aristophanes neighborize scum-NH?

Massive - this is your case for Thor being scum with me yeah?
These are all about posts from Thor, nothing from me. What is there for me to defend against here? It's all Thor's posts.

[ɀefiend]

Too busy right now. I'll hop on later.

[Night Hunters]

@GuiltyLion, Look how zefiend treats us.

He makes a post about how the flavor we claimed D1 is linkable with Crippling Debt (the scum flavor). Aside from it not being true (parents help relieve students from debt and get all in your business), it also

assumes we're telling the truth

. Why would a town player suppose a scumread is honest about flavor?

There's plenty of inconsistencies like that, although inconsistencies may not be the 100% right word.

~Titus

[Night Hunters]

Since no one is talking I'm thinking of voting zefiend. :3
~Dwlee

[ɀefiend]

Well, this is gonna be a bombshell, but I have had a change of heart.

I believe NH is legit tracker. I believe GL is ascetic (possibly +roleblocker).

Several reasons for this:

1) At first I thought that NH was adapting the story of events to match whatever agenda he had, because of his interactions with GL, firebringer, and Jeanne. But re-reading, I think I was blinded by the fact that firebringer and jeanne (who are conf-town now) were providing logical frustrations with NH story. Now my attitude is that NH was actually coming from a "figure-everything-out" mind set. Nahdia alluded to this and I give deference to her because she replaced-in. She is conf-town and would have read things differently than me (who has been part of the game since the start).

2) I don't think Firebringer lied. He had no reason to, and both times he revealed his actions his posts were very straightforward. Here's what I think happened:
fire jails jeanne
nh tracks shadowez
shadowez neighbors GL

GL ascetic means shadowez visits no one meaning nh gets no result

fire jails thor
nh tracks fire
GL blocks fire

GL blocking fire means nh gets no result

I think GL (or his partner) blocked Fire hoping that they would stop him from interfering from with their own night kill. At that point in the game, nobody knew there was a multi-kill possibility, so mafia weren't worried about Aristo messing up their plans. The block on Fire backfired hilariously.

The above scenario explains all the actions and accounts for a RB-ing and ascetic power on the mafia side, and occam's that Fire told the truth.

3) NH's reaction to my theme-speculation. I read it as genuine townie-frustration about not being believed. Also, during my re-read I found that NH's generally frustrated tone about trying to prove himself legit tracker/explain night actions has been consistent. I don't think it's faked.


The only thing that bothers me is why shadowez was blocked. On the other hand, this WIFOM didn't enter my mind until GL mentioned it in #993.

I am still conflicted between Cakez and massive.

Rereading all the remaining players' isos has made my head hurt.

[Night Hunters]

Not sure if that is a townie actually realizing how much they dun goofed or if youre trying to avoid our scumdar..
~Dwlee

[SirCakez]

Still think NH is scum despite that wall.
Kinda tempted to go for massive instead of them today though.

[Night Hunters]

@Zefiend, please explain how blocking Fire generates no result instead of "Fire goes nowhere"

[Night Hunters]

Still think NH is scum despite that wall.
Kinda tempted to go for massive instead of them today though.

^^^ This is still scum too.

[GuiltyLion]

I didn't forget. I asked "where's the proof?" I'm pretty sure mathematically it's been proven that Fire at least lied about N1, which means that both he and Shaddowez can be explained by Fire's own "results." Or do you think Fire was telling the truth? If you do, why is NH claiming Fire lied just "ridiculous" (1519) and not flat out scummy?

How has it been proven that Fire lied? Walk me through that one.

NH claiming that Fire lied IS ridiculous. It's rejecting information coming from a proven town in order to justify their own claim. It should be obvious to you that that's scummy, I don't know why you're acting like I'm supposed to explicitly state as much.

[GuiltyLion]

zefiend, why are you town reading NH just because they are "consistent" in their claim and their frustration? I find scum is usually more consistent than town, both in projected persona and content.

Also you're claiming that I'm both ascetic and there's a role blocker? How does that make sense? Shaddowez being role blocked fits if you assume NH is not actually a tracker. Otherwise I don't know why scum would let NH get a free action, if they were town.

[Night Hunters]

i was thinking scum jailkeeper for that scenario but gl is right it doesn't explain us not getting roleblocked in favor of a shadow block. And there is no way they could have known who we targeted because no one in the neighborhood was group scum.
Part of me just wants to lose and get this game behind me so I can stop trying to figure out how the fuck this setup makes any sense.
~Dwlee

[Night Hunters]

I have a 50-50 chance of hitting scum though so woop.

Are we seriously going after another pr!?

Why does them claiming a PR matter in any way at all?

Because I knew they were sifting a PR from the get go with their "Mom" and "Dad" post signing. I had them as a strong townread because of this and due to their play!

Tojam is just giddy to kill a good PR so he can become them.
I have seen scum backups before, so I'm not buying that he is town by role.
That's also why I had them in my scum pool before. Because their play was scummy, and their claim dubious as well as unprompted.

VOTE: Toejam

Thank you.

Now I can stop flavorcrumbing being married to a kid half my age. It felt creepy.

But do you think the last sentence is faked by titus?
We have been crumbing our flavor since very early on (I think it was after a couple of posts from us) when we decided we had to have a way to sign and that we could crumb at the same time.

[ɀefiend]

@Zefiend, please explain how blocking Fire generates no result instead of "Fire goes nowhere"

The same way that shadowez being blocked generated a no result for you. See, if the mechanics of tracker vs. person-visiting-ascetic were crystal clear in this game as outlined in the wiki, then I wouldn't be giving you this chance. But the mod answered some of my questions about these interactions and a couple of them are not in agreement with the wiki/NAR.

Perhaps the scum roleblocker also asceticizes the target that night?

[ɀefiend]

Shadowez doesn't need to have been actively blocked to explain all the blockage, if GL is ascetic anyway.

If GL is ascetic, Shadowez gets blocked reflexively. The same night, NH is targeted by the RB'er.

The next night, it's legitimate to think that scum have more to gain (guaranteed NK barring other shenanigans) than lose (being followed to the kill) by blocking the JKer instead of the tracker.

[ɀefiend]

GL, I agree with you that Fire didn't lie. It's bizarre that NH is still trying to run with that. But Fire not lying means that the lynch today should unequivocally cross between you and NH. This is interesting because NH still has reservations about voting you, SirCakez wants to lynch massive, and massive hasn't given a firm stance on the cross yet. Basically, there's a wrench being thrown somewhere by someone and I haven't figured it out yet.

[Night Hunters]

why as scum aren't we / didn't we just get gl lynched yesterday?
I've asked this multiple times but no one responds.