Newbie 1700 - GAME OVER

[Hoppic]

After reading through Thatguy's posts, I suddenly have a strong townread on him. Even having 2 votes on him may be dangerous. When I tried to pressure him I didn't know it then but that was a big mistake.

Were you trying to get karnos and cytheflyguy to take their votes off him? Do you think they might be mafia?

guh.

I'm not good at cases.

Why did you say you'd make a case then?

Maybe I'm new, but I've lurked my share of games, and I've played a number of social games like this. I also feel confident I can use my head. I feel sure of things sometimes, but that doesn't mean you have to believe me. Why not attack my reasoning that the game was going to stall a bit instead of attacking my confidence? You've been attacking people's confidence a lot now that I think about it.

Why is that a bad thing to think about someone's confidence? It's interesting that you would call it an "attack" when I was just talking about it and asking questions. Why do you feel like you're under attack?

I disagree about Thatguy. I personally think that unless he is 100% sure, it may be best for him not to vote on Day 1 at all. If you pressurise him, it would probably end very badly. Despite my normally open and honest nature, this is perhaps one of the few times I will refuse to give reasons. Please do not ask me. If you can figure out the reason by yourself (and someone probably can) then fine, but remember that it may be bad to share it.

Also, Hoppic for some reason still has a vote on me. He said that the primary reason was that I was apparently confident that Cytheflyguy's tells were newbie tells and not scum tells, but now the general consensus is that Cytheflyguy did what he did because he!/ new. I'm wondering if Hoppic still has a scumread on me.

Pressurising RadiantCowbells may be a good way to get him to explain his reads. For some reason, he seems very reluctant to explain them.

Why bring up the issue if you don't want people to ask you about it? It's just drawing attention to it. I can't understand your motivation for this post.

[BTD6_maker]

I got them because a newbie cop is very likely to not vote at all without a Guilty

I've played and read a lot of newbie games with newbies from many different backgrounds and I've

never

seen this before.


I'll address the rest of the new stuff tomorrow.

As this is my first game, I was not really sure which tells are reliable. Here, I used JEEP's common tells. Are they even valid anymore?

[BTD6_maker]

Also, my town motivation to this was to try to stop the Thatguy wagon and stop people from pressuring Thatguy. Either way, by now there is one advantage to this still. It's better to give scum one player's suspicion than a claim.

[Hoppic]

It didn't seem as though you weren't sure which tells were reliable. You seemed certain. And if you weren't certain, why mention it?

[Hoppic]

So much I don't understand in this game.

[BTD6_maker]

Now I'm not sure which tells are reliable. When I got my copread on Thatguy, I thought I was pretty confident.

[Ghostwheel]

Confidence is a tone more easily conveyed through text and I don't consider it alignment indicitive except maaaaaybe in an extremely strong defense of someone who filpped town even if they were acting scummy (and even then I think that logic is wrong like 90% of the time)

I don't feel attacked,(especially not with a vote from you) so thag word choice may have been wrong but I can't help but feel like coming from you, especially after you similarly probed BTD that that kind of thing tips you off as a scumtell and that even if the questions weren't an attack they were an insinuation. I read it as reading personality as a scumtell rather than trying to scumhunt within the structure of someone's personality. Like even as scum I can't exactly play counter to who I am so I'm not really sure how this helps. Either that or you're trying to wonder if my confidence begs that I have more information than you, which you can keep asking me about and I'll give you my reasoning every time. Whether or not you believe me is entirely up to you. People bullshit a lot in this game so I find whenever I take lines of questioning like that I find arrogant town more than I find scum. But hey, that's my experience and I'm not in the business of pushing that on others or telling them how to think.

You can notice if you want that I've been confident with my opinions but not confident with my vote until now. What I think has clear progression for me, and I'm open about that thought process. But I haven't been strongly pushing people, trying to get people on my cases like I know they're scum.

[Hoppic]

I'm in two minds. On one hand, I think BTD6 and ghostmaker seem scummy, but it's too obvious. Just as, huntress thought BTD6 communicating with me was too obvious, and it was because I'm town and he wasn't trying to send me a scum message. So then I think that mafia are more likely to be laying low

The people who are laying low (in my opinion) are cytheflyguy, tojam2, and huntress. Also, radiantcowbells is doing uncooperative, which seems town but his signature makes me think he regularly makes a feature of it, so it's not a tell either way. Also, thatguy has only posted 7 times, which is the lowest of anyone. That's not really narrowing it down much, though.

[Hoppic]

Now I'm not sure which tells are reliable. When I got my copread on Thatguy, I thought I was pretty confident.

Why did you change your mind?

[Hoppic]

Confidence is a tone more easily conveyed through text and I don't consider it alignment indicitive except maaaaaybe in an extremely strong defense of someone who filpped town even if they were acting scummy (and even then I think that logic is wrong like 90% of the time)

I don't feel attacked,(especially not with a vote from you) so thag word choice may have been wrong but I can't help but feel like coming from you, especially after you similarly probed BTD that that kind of thing tips you off as a scumtell and that even if the questions weren't an attack they were an insinuation. I read it as reading personality as a scumtell rather than trying to scumhunt within the structure of someone's personality. Like even as scum I can't exactly play counter to who I am so I'm not really sure how this helps. Either that or you're trying to wonder if my confidence begs that I have more information than you, which you can keep asking me about and I'll give you my reasoning every time. Whether or not you believe me is entirely up to you. People bullshit a lot in this game so I find whenever I take lines of questioning like that I find arrogant town more than I find scum. But hey, that's my experience and I'm not in the business of pushing that on others or telling them how to think.

You can notice if you want that I've been confident with my opinions but not confident with my vote until now. What I think has clear progression for me, and I'm open about that thought process. But I haven't been strongly pushing people, trying to get people on my cases like I know they're scum.

My exact words were, "I don't understand this. You're a newish player, right? So how can you be so sure how the game is going to go, and how can you be bored so quickly? You sound here as if you're jaded from playing hundreds of games..."

I'm asking a question, because you jumped in on the first page saying you were bored. You did explain it by saying it was in response to someone's comment, but for me it didn't really justify that, so I was trying to explain why it didn't make sense to me still so you could explain it. Then you did. You say that you've read lots of games so you know how they typically go. Fair enough. As you say, it wasn't an attack, and it especially wasn't an attack on your confidence or your personality, so I'm surprised you're saying that.

I suppose whenever I ask a question, there's an underlying insinuation that you're MAFIA. Yes, it's possible. But my motivation is not only to catch scum but also to understand people in general, because it's hard to know how to weigh up what they're saying until you get a sense of what they're like.

[Ghostwheel]

Yo but for real the way huntress has been approaching this game thus far has been fishy. I can't exactly multiquote on my phone but we have:

-A case on me where I 3rd degree rolefish by reminding people that they can ask questions
-A case on BTD where BTD reminding Hoppic of my reaction test is scum coaching
-A case on BTD where he's trying to out the cop to his scum partner when under all the assumptions she makes he has no reason to do so.

And the rest is IC answering questions or I'm going to be busy fluff. To me the most dangerous behavior right now is pointing people in a direction that will lead to systematic mislynches. These cases are bad and you can make them about a number of different kinds of posts, when so much of the time scum don't need to scum coach. We're through enough game and she's got enough experience that I'm finding her toothcombing only these minor issues difficult to stomach.

[BTD6_maker]

Voting me isn't going to make me any less reluctant to explain my reads.

Why are you so reluctant anyway? Surely explaining reads and giving information is pro-Town.

It's clear that this discussion on whether or not Thatguy is cop doesn't seem like it's going anywhere. The last page was pretty much solely about my cop read. Focusing on that to the point of almost ignoring all else definitely can't benefit Town.

Otherwise, I have two moderate scum reads: RC and Huntress.

[karnos]

Voting me isn't going to make me any less reluctant to explain my reads.

Why are you so reluctant anyway? Surely explaining reads and giving information is pro-Town.

This exact same topic came up in my last (and only other) game on this site.

Explaining reads can hurt town.

For example: you misread a scum as town. The scum sees you explain why you read them as town. Now that scum knows excactly how to continue posting to keep pulling the wool over your eyes.

I'm not trying to say that in every case it's bad to explain your reads, but there are certainly cases where it can help scum more than town. Of course if all your readsd are 100% correct and you never make mistakes than it's always pro-town to explain them, but realistically everybody is going to misread occasionally.

[karnos]

As far as myself, I am still suspicious of

thatguy

. A lot of talk about why he isn't voting, very little from him. It seems that now that the attention has faded on him he has stopped participating again, which to me just looks like a scum trying to hide.

I strongly disagree that there is any huge danger in having 2 votes on him, what is going to happen? Even if both scum pile on him, it's not enough to quick-lynch, and even if that did somehow happen and he flips town we can immediately turn around and lynch the scum who did the quick-lynch.

Needless to say, for townies: if someone is at L-2 or L-1, don't be quick to lynch them unless you are positive (i.e. cop with a night read), because if you are wrong it will look very bad on you. On the other hand, if someone sits at L-1 for a day or two and discussion is generally favorable from the majority to go ahead and hammer the lynch, then go for it.

[Rob14]

Vote Count #1.5:

thatguy:

karnos, cytheflyguy (2)

Huntress:

RadiantCowbells, Ghostwheel (2)

BTD6_maker:

Hoppic, Huntress (2)

RadiantCowbells:

BTD6_maker, tojam2 (2)

Not Voting:

thatguy

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

V/LA:

None.

Deadline:

(expired on 2016-05-03 19:00:00)

[BTD6_maker]

Thatguy has not been contributing much recently. Even though the entire last page was all about him, he still has nothing to say about this matter.

As Ghostwheel said, Huntress has a list of bad cases throughout the game and apart from that she also is contributing little. She's probably a slightly stronger scumread for me than RC but I'm not sure if I should vote just yet.

[RadiantCowbells]

Voting me isn't going to make me any less reluctant to explain my reads.

Why are you so reluctant anyway? Surely explaining reads and giving information is pro-Town.

It's clear that this discussion on whether or not Thatguy is cop doesn't seem like it's going anywhere. The last page was pretty much solely about my cop read. Focusing on that to the point of almost ignoring all else definitely can't benefit Town.

Otherwise, I have two moderate scum reads: RC and Huntress.

Question: do you think that I speedvoted my partner off the bat?
Do you think that if I was intending to bus Huntress as you seem to be implying that we wouldn't have come into the day with a plan to get her lynched efficiently with me leading?

If that's not the case, you should vote Huntress who might actually be scum.
And hell, if you think we're bussing? help me bus.

[tojam2]

VOTE: thatguy Post please, it's truly painful.

Sorry town, that's all I could come up with, I went out for lunch and all my blood has gone to my stomach so I haven't picked up on much will try again this time tomorrow.

[BTD6_maker]

RC, I never said that you were scum with Huntress. I said that you two are my strongest scum reads. I actually consider it quite unlikely that you're both scum, and far more likely that one of you are scum. Also, I can't just ignore (as you seem to think I can) the possibility that you are scum and Huntress is not.

[thatguy]

I disagree about Thatguy.

I personally think that unless he is 100% sure, it may be best for him not to vote on Day 1 at all.

If you pressurise him,

it would probably end very badly.

Despite my normally open and honest nature, this is perhaps one of the few times I will refuse to give reasons. Please do not ask me. If you can figure out the reason by yourself (and someone probably can) then fine, but remember that it may be bad to share it..

I am competent, you know.

And I'm totally a cop. You know that my lack of activity indicates an invested PR amirite.

Also, my town motivation to this was to try to

stop the Thatguy wagon and stop people from pressuring Thatguy.

Either way, by now there is one advantage to this still. It's better to give scum one player's suspicion than a claim.

M8 there was absolutely no pressure. There were three players who wagoned on me for a stupid reason, and let up as soon as I pointed it out. The wagon is still resuming because I'm being an inactive shitter.

VOTE: thatguy Post please, it's truly painful.

Sorry town, that's all I could come up with, I went out for lunch and all my blood has gone to my stomach so I haven't picked up on much will try again this time tomorrow.

It's gang up on the no voter day. Whee.

I love how BTD finds it in himself to consistently put words in my mouth.

Oh, and since I'm hyperfocused on BTD:

RC, I never said that you were scum with Huntress. I said that you two are my strongest scum reads. I actually consider it quite unlikely that you're both scum, and far more likely that one of you are scum. Also, I can't just ignore (as you seem to think I can) the possibility that you are scum and Huntress is not.

I see no association between Huntress and RC, aside from light bussing, if that. How would that indicate one being scum and the other not? What's telling you that they can't be a team?

[BTD6_maker]

Assuming no information, the chances of them both being scum are 1 in 36. That is why I still consider it unlikely. The chances of at least one of them being scum are 5 in 12 and I have some strong scumreads so I think that's much more likely. Also, when did I put words in your mouth?

[BTD6_maker]

Voting me isn't going to make me any less reluctant to explain my reads.

Why are you so reluctant anyway? Surely explaining reads and giving information is pro-Town.

It's clear that this discussion on whether or not Thatguy is cop doesn't seem like it's going anywhere. The last page was pretty much solely about my cop read. Focusing on that to the point of almost ignoring all else definitely can't benefit Town.

Otherwise, I have two moderate scum reads: RC and Huntress.

Question: do you think that I speedvoted my partner off the bat?
Do you think that if I was intending to bus Huntress as you seem to be implying that we wouldn't have come into the day with a plan to get her lynched efficiently with me leading?

If that's not the case, you should vote Huntress who might actually be scum.
And hell, if you think we're bussing? help me bus.

I get a very strong scum vibe from this. This makes it more likely that you are bussing (you assumed I thought you were bussing just because I had two scumreads) and also more likely that you are trying to push a mislynch wagon (by trying to get me or even Town to vote Huntress instead of you). If you are bussing, surely it's as pro-Town to vote you as to vote Huntress.

I think you are trying to manipulate us into voting Huntress. It doesn't change my moderate-scum Huntress read (you could be bussing or mislynching) but it gives me a strong scumread about you.

[thatguy]

As in advising me and playing like I'm a puppet who will sheep your suggestions.

[BTD6_maker]

That was mostly aimed at people who wanted to pressure you to vote. I presumed that you didn't want to vote yet as you were not voting.

[thatguy]

My perception was different; thanks for telling me your intent.