Newbie 1700 - GAME OVER

[RadiantCowbells]

You're arguing with someone that you claim to think is scum that they're being anti-town in a way that only makes sense if I'm town.

you are scum.

[BTD6_maker]

What did I say that implied that you are Town? I implied that if you are Town your posts are detrimental to Town. I explicitly acknowledged the possibility (which I now think is probable) that you are scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

You're scum and not particularly good at it.

just stop.

[BTD6_maker]

I don't see why someone would want to present such a strong scumread with no reasons. Unless, of course, you claim to be a PR with some guilty result on me.

If you do claim such a PR, bear in mind that if you are fakeclaiming, the real PR will counterclaim and you will die. I know that you are lying if you claim a guilty on me so if you somehow claim PR and get me lynched, you will also die. Besides, you explicitly told the PR not to investigate me so why would you do it?

Otherwise, if you do not claim to have a guilty on me, please explain. More discussion will help the Town.

[RadiantCowbells]

bear in mind that if you are fakeclaiming

scum.

[BTD6_maker]

Are you trying to claim PR with guilty on me? Every town player knows someone is lying if they claim a guilty, do saying that is in no way a scumtell. If you are claiming PR with guilty, that's fine. In fact, I really don't want the real PR to counterclaim. If you do claim guilty on me then if I'm lynched, I'll be perfectly happy. We'll have a guaranteed scum at LyLo, with the real PR unclaimed.

If you want to claim PR with a guilty on me, claim in your next post. (If you want to claim PR without a result on me, then there is no need to claim immediately)

[Ghostwheel]

^Now THIS is rolefishing.

Also BTD saying he wants to follow Huntress with a town perspective, and then immediately turn around and just vote RC again is hilarious.

I've seen town get twisted up in their own self doubt like this "I scumread you but if you are town then it means you're doing this" kind of language that RC is calling him out on, but not often. I'm feeling better about this one, I'm not going to lie.

[BTD6_maker]

This is not intended to be rolefishing. I am merely trying to show that RC is NOT a PR and thus cannot be certain about his read on me. The purpose of this is force RC to make a choice. If he claims PR (with guilty on me), the real PR should not claim. I will probably get lynched but then RC is confirmed scum.
I actually strongly think that RC will not claim PR, and I am certainly not looking for the real PR. My aim is to show that there is no way RC can be certain about his scumread, and ultimately make him give reasons for his read. All he has done toDay is state that I am scum, without explanation.

I acknowledge my own self-doubt, precisely because I do not have absolute 100% proof that RC is scum. No Townie (except PRs following an investigation) has 100% proof so acknowledging the possibility of my being wrong cannot be a scumtell.

I will reread Huntress once I get the time. At the moment I am trying to get reasons from RC (which so far has been futile).

[RadiantCowbells]

You're transparently scum concerned that I have an actual guilty on you and are trying to fish it out.
Town wouldn't feel the need to ask me whether I'm actually guiltying you.

And that 'real cop doesn't CC' comment is just making excuses for why no one would CC me if I did guilty you.

[BTD6_maker]

I am Town and I am saying that there is no other way in which you could be 100% certain or wouldn't need to explain. If you did guilty me and I was lynched and flipped Town, you would be confirmed scum.

I am asking in order to prove that up you are not 100% certain and thus need to explain your reads. I know that if you do claim a guilty, you are fakeclaiming. However, Town doesn't know that. Thus I must rule out the possibility.

Essentially, I am saying nothing about whether you are in fact a PR or trying to fish you. What I am saying, though, is that you should explain your reads.

[Hoppic]

That's interesting that they picked thatguy to kill. Ghostwheel and radiantcowbells both said that they didn't think he had a power role, so one theory could be that the players who did think he had a power role killed him. That leaves tojam, karnos, cy and btd6.

The other theory I have is that radiantcowbells is scum because he took care to mention that he didn't think thatguy had a power role when we were in twilight. That might have been cover because he'd already intended to kill him. Also, he said that he was killed n1 in 9 out of 10 of his last town games, and hinted that he was cop (he said that he wouldn't even bother to investigate BTD6), and he's very experienced, and he's still alive.

About my "quick" hammer, I think huntress was at L-1 for five DAYS before I hammered. If I'm reading the times correctly. Three other people had said they were willing to hammer her. Nobody apart from me was defending her, so it's not exactly quick.

Both thatguy and huntress were pinged by karnos, whatever that means, and he put huntress at L1 to make her claim.

VOTE: karnos

[Hoppic]

Townies, can you please talk more about what you think. Karnos, if you're town, can you please say more about why you put huntress at L1, what you think about the thatguy killing last night, who you think is scum, etc.

[RadiantCowbells]

we're not lynching anyone who isn't BTD6.

[karnos]

Townies, can you please talk more about what you think. Karnos, if you're town, can you please say more about why you put huntress at L1, what you think about the thatguy killing last night, who you think is scum, etc.

Timing has been bad for me. I was away from the forums for a bit and came back to find it was night and the doctor had been lynched, and now I get back to this crazy mess.

Why did I put huntress at L-1? Primarily it was exactly as I said earlier- she was arguing that pressure wouldn't do anything, and I kinda thought "well if pressure isn't working, we aren't using enough" and added my vote. Indirectly, I was trusting RC's post #222, it sounded logical to me and made a lot of sense, but since I don't have personal experience playing with either player it was a bit of a leap of trust.

However, now with the benefit of knowing that Huntress was indeed town, it makes me very suspicious of RadiantCowbells. #223 immediately after, read with the knowledge that Huntress is Town, looks like a scum with "oh wow, look at this huge wagon, we can probably easily miss lynch Huntress tomorrow so lets switch and lynch someone else today first" Crazy? Maybe, but that is my first thought upon re-reading the post knowing what we do today.

Ultimately, there is something going on with BTD and RC. If BTD is indeed scum, well then my whole suspicion on RC can drop. But if RC is scum, BTD is certainly just another townie, would a scum dare be so blatant? I think so. Looking at posting history, while I feel for the story myself and voted huntress, I see a lot of posts where RC claims "so and so is obvious scum!", to the point that I wonder if he was really scum hunting, or just a scum hunting for an easy miss lynch.

Obviously I also wonder if the whole attempt to get off or change the wagon was just an attempt to deflect attention from who actually started it once RC realized Huntress was getting lynched pretty much for sure.


Still, while I have a lot of suspicions in mind, I am not even going to place a vote yet, I need to re-read the last few days posts before making a decision, and currently I am a little hyped up because I just watched Game of Thrones.

On the subject of thatguy, there are several possibilities. It's really not too shocking IMO. RC thought he would get lynched, but no rational scum would kill a townie who just led a massive miss lynch - nor would a scum kill another scum, ever. So he is out. I kinda thought I might get killed at night, if my theories were too close to the truth, but I didn't- maybe that means my previously posted suspicions were nowhere near correct, or maybe it means nothing. Other than RC and myself, thatguy is next obvious kill target, simply because of the BTD's comment implicating him as a cop. The doctor was lynched, so no reason to shy away from killing him in fear of protection. It could have been because the scum legitimately thought he was actually a cop, or it could have been because the scum wanted to make BTD look bad, and killing thatguy could certainly do that because of prior comments about how BTD outed him and now he will get killed at night. It makes me slightly less suspicious of BTD simply because if he was scum, he would want to stay far away from killing thatguy and bringing up the whole incident again.

[karnos]

Ok, Hoppic has claimed scum with that move and should be lynched for it Day two, so at least some good has come out of it.

Interesting point here.

Why not wait, Hoppic? What did you think was to be gained by hammering so early before the deadline?

[karnos]

@Huntress:

2. Exactly, why would he post at 4 a.m. except for those reasons, I think I mentioned that he could be worried about getting lynched as scum.

How well do you know karnos? Is that a meta thing for him?

@ karnos:

What do you think about what tojam is saying about you here and in 188?

I'm not even sure what this means. (Yes, responding too late for huntress, but maybe other readers of the thread are afraid I am dodging the question).

What post is this referring to? 4AM what time zone? Without knowing what exact post this is about, I can say that sometimes I post early my time while bored at work, which is around 7:30AM EDT at the earliest. Usually I will be asleep from 11PM my time until 6AM or so, so if I did post at 4AM my time it was very an unusual situation for sure.

I don't even know how the time stamps work on this forum, I guess I'll look and see what time this post shows after I submit.

[karnos]

Okay, I see. Time was off by an hour because I didn't check the box for daylight savings time. It's correctly showing posts by my time now for me, at least I have that figured out.

[cytheflyguy]

I need to read this and comment tomorrow lol. I'm so not in the right mind (tired af) to say anything. I'm just letting y'all know this so no one will say I'm lurking ^^

[Rob14]

Vote Count #2.1:

RadiantCowbells:

BTD6_maker (1)

BTD6_maker:

RadiantCowbells (1)

karnos:

Hoppic (1)

Not Voting:

cytheflyguy, Ghostwheel, karnos, tojam2

With 7 players alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

V/LA:

None.

Deadline:

(expired on 2016-05-15 12:45:00)

[BTD6_maker]

Despite all my efforts, RC still refuses to explain. He has no grounds whatsoever for not explaining.

Karnos has brought some interesting points. At the end of Day 2, it looks like either me or RC will be lynched.
Also, lynching so early has cast suspicion onto Hoppic, who I think may be scum with RC.

After it was pointed out I never really believed in my copread. It is possible either scum tried to incriminate me or scum actually believed my copread.

Hoppic is a weak-moderate scumread of mine and RC is a strong scumread.

[tojam2]

1. Wtf was that RC?
VOTE: RC
2. Sorry, I'll put my hands up for that lynch, she should have claimed that role though, would have bought town time.
3. Quickhammering is indicative of nothing but the person doing it is a newb.

[BTD6_maker]

I'm not so sure if it's actually scummy but quick hammering hurts Town. It may seem more likely that scum does it to eliminate a Townie. Town dan do it but scum may be more likely so in my opinion it's a weak scumtell. Of course, it's also a strong newbtell.

[karnos]

After a night's sleep, I have a few more thoughts.

Thinking about the possibilities...

1- RC is town, BTD is town.

RC for some reason is super suspicious of BTD to the point that he is sure he is scum, and is demanding the lynch. This is a worst case scenario. It's almost certain one of them will end up lynched, and we will be down another town player, and town will likely want to lynch the other one tomorrow, putting the nail in the cofin for town. I hope RC isn't foolish enough to risk the whole game on a tiny hunch that BTD is scum.

2- RC is scum, BTD is town.

I could see this being the case. Yes, RC risks being counter lynched tomorrow, almost certainly, but that leaves 1 scum and 2 townies alive the following day (since doctor was lynched the scum can be certain of getting a kill every night), and if either townie miss votes the scum can hammer and win.

3- RC is town, BTD is scum.

This could either be because RC is a power role and actually knows for a fact that BTD is scum, or this could be similar to case 1 above, except RC got lucky and his hunch that BTD is scum is true. This could be great for town, if we do lynch BTD, as that could confirm RC's trustworthiness.

Ultimately, after thinking through each case, I'm not comfortable voting either just yet. The game matrix makes it clear- we either have a cop & mafia has a role-blocker, or we have a tracker and 2 regular mafia goons. Situation 3 could be correct if RC is the cop or the tracker.

I guess I'll just throw it out there. RC, if you are a power role with a hit on BTD, come out and claim it. If BTD is scum and town lynches him, I can't see any scenario where you don't get killed at night anyway. There is no reason to be shy of claiming, unless this is all a big ploy and you are really scum.

[karnos]

Hey, if the role-blocker could claim too that would really help town

[cytheflyguy]

After a night's sleep, I have a few more thoughts.

Thinking about the possibilities...

1- RC is town, BTD is town.

RC for some reason is super suspicious of BTD to the point that he is sure he is scum, and is demanding the lynch. This is a worst case scenario. It's almost certain one of them will end up lynched, and we will be down another town player, and town will likely want to lynch the other one tomorrow, putting the nail in the cofin for town. I hope RC isn't foolish enough to risk the whole game on a tiny hunch that BTD is scum.

2- RC is scum, BTD is town.

I could see this being the case. Yes, RC risks being counter lynched tomorrow, almost certainly, but that leaves 1 scum and 2 townies alive the following day (since doctor was lynched the scum can be certain of getting a kill every night), and if either townie miss votes the scum can hammer and win.

3- RC is town, BTD is scum.

This could either be because RC is a power role and actually knows for a fact that BTD is scum, or this could be similar to case 1 above, except RC got lucky and his hunch that BTD is scum is true. This could be great for town, if we do lynch BTD, as that could confirm RC's trustworthiness.

Ultimately, after thinking through each case, I'm not comfortable voting either just yet. The game matrix makes it clear- we either have a cop & mafia has a role-blocker, or we have a tracker and 2 regular mafia goons. Situation 3 could be correct if RC is the cop or the tracker.

I guess I'll just throw it out there. RC, if you are a power role with a hit on BTD, come out and claim it. If BTD is scum and town lynches him, I can't see any scenario where you don't get killed at night anyway. There is no reason to be shy of claiming, unless this is all a big ploy and you are really scum.

Ok, looking off of this, I honestly think this is a very non-baised way of looking at this situation, and I have a few things to say because of it:

1. In the event that BTD is scum, that would mean two things: A) RC has to be cop to have basis on their claim. B) RC will be killed tomorrow.

2. If neither is lynched today, and one of them has died the next night, MORE THAN LIKELY (not saying this is fact) the other person is town as well. Why? Because is BTD has died, and RC has been gunning for them the entire day, that would paint a target on RC's back (though that is something that I will cover later), while if RC has been killed, as BTD isn't as...flamboyant about lynching, it would seem odd that he would proform a night kill, which would only make them look more sus. Of course, if RC is proved Cop after death, the natural thing would be to lynch BTD as he (RC) had a valid claim to lynch BTD. In this case, it is in (in case of scum) BTD's best interest (and the town as well) not to kill RC, as in any instant that RC is cop, BTD will be lynch the next day. (Tell me if this makes sense or not lol)

3. If either is town, they need to show in some way both are town. There should be no real need for pressure, as I feel really it's between RC and BTD. We don't need a Huntress repete here ^^;;

4. RC

really

needs to explain on his certainty. I refuse to vote for BTD unless I feel there is proof.

5. Honestly, everyone else should focus on both of them. As I said earlier, more than likely the vote is between them. We need to, as a group, investigate, poke, and prod both of them until we have come to a solid conclusion. If we find it's niether and move to someone else, then we'll more than likely move to the senario suggested at number 2 of my list.

I hope what I said made sense lol. Let me know what y'all think about what I said. We already have a few loose leads and we need to act apon them accordinly.