↑Cerberus v666 wrote:Crumbed shooting snarky is a really bad reason to think cakez is the vig, since several people kept saying he should be vigged........unless there was something he said that was a more obvious crumb, I guess. Feels like a weird conclusion to arrive at with that evidence.
Also kinda ridiculous to expose your hood. For...no benefit? Oh, and another slots BP, also exposed.
...
I don't understand the info dump.
I could expand the reasoning of course but this seems like one of those things that isn't a great idea.
↑podoboq wrote:Also, yeah, if anybody is discrediting dwlee because he's young, fuck you, because that's bullshit. Dramonic's posts are far less coherent and mature than dwlee's.
True, true.
I'm not discrediting Dwlee's posts for him being young; I'm discrediting them for being ridiculously fake. Anyone who reads that ISO and gets a conclusion other than "he chose Piper's name out of a hat and chose to push them because ~fun~!" are people who are not reading the same game I am.
↑Cerberus v666 wrote:Don't think it really matters though, except I kinda do want to lynch you, but I don't think anybody else does. Like, does anybody else see dwlee as potentially scum here? I really feel like we need to look outside the established "probtown" group and the people that have been getting consistently pushed to the edge of being lynched.
I do!
Except we're in pretty differing positions in that I'm pretty ready for the day to end and I'm pretty ready for the day to end on hiplop while you want to go on adventures elsewhere. I will say that I do understand all of this frustration about you not being yourself and want to click into engaged mode - just channel something, relax, have a little fun. I feel like we've all been spinning our wheels a bit while
nothing actually happens
, so it's not like the game couldn't use posty Cerberus.
↑Cerberus v666 wrote:Also, I'll be pissed if FS turns out to actually be scum(and man, if they are, I am going to LOVE it when someone uses this EXACT post and calls me out on laying out the groundwork for dealing with an eventual FS scum flip), since I've spent basically all my effort this game working to keep them from getting lynched.
Then spread your wings, fly; leave that FS-townread in the dust where it belongs. You won't be a hero if FS is town and you keep them from getting lynched today, but you can be a hero if you dig your heels in now and do cool ~other~ stuff!
I only realized now how weird of a mood that I'm in right now, apologies.
↑Mirhawk wrote:I do however still have problems with the "exaggeration" over how many PR's were on the line. Not only that, but there wasn't much reason to out Cakez just now, as it's more of a matter that they think he's the vig rather then they know. Pretty much everyone and their dog was calling for a hit on snarky so I dunno.
The exaggeration was in essence a lie. A lie told to the rest of town for what benefit precisely? I'm not sure what that wizard stuff is about or how they thought it would help town, because I don't really see how it would. Just like I don't get why you would out Cakez just now when you could have just as easily defused Dwlee's argument without doing that.
I don't know why you want me to expand on these things or how you expect me to at this point.
I also don't know why you want me to expand on the exaggeration point - the motivation you had for us lying as scum about that was to avoid outing that info, and look! Info outed.
↑dramonic wrote:I'm not "not going to put in any effort", but TPP is so obvscum with every post and people are apparently giving them a free pass of trashplay because "well they're not sloppy!~<3"
Take my position, if I were to claim scum right here, right now, and people called me town, would you be pleased?
Very much so - it would mean that I'd have to do a little convincing and then we'd have dead scum!
Marquis, I think that you overplay mirhawk's position on Cakez, unfortunately. I'll check out what's happening on Skybird later when I'm feeling more mafia-esque later.
I think that I'll probably speak more and clearer later when I'm in the mood for this game, but if anyone actually believes that FS's "oh marquis convince me! oh i guess i could be wrong about something!" shtick is bussing then they need to come talk to me because otherwise Mirhawk's flipping town (and has looked better recently). I want to make progress with the game, and I don't feel like we'll make progress unless one of us/FS dies.
Look at this from scum FS's perspective. A wagon is building on some random guy that isn't them but that they have been pretty staunch in defending the whole game. Their reaction is to vote them, claim no hard reason for voting them, and then in the next vote call the whole thing likely that Mirhawk is town but w/e. If we actually lynch mir and the mod decides that this game is bastard and he flips town, then we would auto-lynch FS for being this shittiest scum ever for voting and white knighting at the exact same time. The reason that FS isn't worried about their reason for voting Mir is b/c mir is scum.
↑itlepip wrote:Wow that fucking sucks. Seriously wtffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
Did Dwlee pushing you really scare you that much. Wioja;jas[do kjsd;vksja;vjasdh;sfhds;fjkhapsdfkjsadfjkas;dlfkja[goijgpjnoiwjfas;dfjn;aslkefjowiejfas;dfka[soin[adfvn[vna[dfiopdfivapiv[eofq[oewi[woeirqpiowerqowieruqeiortweiruotdfghskdfgmcxvn,mnxcvkjdfgadhg[iowerqjfpjibnpgifjsadjkfjaksdfo[iqwerioqweuwerutewiurtojkfalsjkdfhsajkldhfpqiweroqirhtpkjdasidfhpasjghpqutq[erituhdfjdjjahksdjklhfdsjklhasdfjkhldfsahjklasjhklfsadjhklfdsajhkfsdjhklafjhadfsjkhasfjhkadfsjhklsdjflhkafsdjklhasdf
Like seriously, just say that Flubber is a 1 shot neighborizer, and bullshit like that and don't reveal the fucking rest. UGH. And now we need to save cakez b/c he was already in the auto circle adsf;akldfj;ah;aihs;fajs;fkwiofhas;dfjakdsfasdfalsjdhfa;sgashf;kfhjas;ifuhase;fhjsd;fk
I probably could have and would have gone about it a better way if I wasn't tired and cranky, but the "role bullshit" talk was more than just Dwlee; it was a pretty decent chunk of the town that was frustrated with it and I always feel that a united town is better than a divided one, and, welp.
There are not enough vigs on MS to shoot this post enough times.
This has got to compete for most transparently fake BS appeasement post 2016.
I'm a hoot
Stream: twitch.tv/dramonic
-If you stick your ear close enough to the game thread you can actually hear dram suffer in real life.-Beeboy
-Being obtuse is not a consequence of being a mod, it's a prerequisite. I think you may just have overestimated my intelligence before.-Korts
↑Cerberus v666 wrote:Crumbed shooting snarky is a really bad reason to think cakez is the vig, since several people kept saying he should be vigged........unless there was something he said that was a more obvious crumb, I guess. Feels like a weird conclusion to arrive at with that evidence.
Also kinda ridiculous to expose your hood. For...no benefit? Oh, and another slots BP, also exposed.
...
I don't understand the info dump.
I could expand the reasoning of course but this seems like one of those things that isn't a great idea.
You already pretended to have info that turned out to be bull as a method of self-preservation once, I STRONGLY SUGGEST not trying the same dumb trick again!~
Then again, it would work on this town.
I'm a hoot
Stream: twitch.tv/dramonic
-If you stick your ear close enough to the game thread you can actually hear dram suffer in real life.-Beeboy
-Being obtuse is not a consequence of being a mod, it's a prerequisite. I think you may just have overestimated my intelligence before.-Korts
This thread is getting painful to read
All of the shit flinging between TPP, FS and Dwlee makes me want to rip my hair out
Meanwhile we have obvscum like Axel floating by
At least scum Mirhawk is the leading wagon
↑SirCakez wrote:This thread is getting painful to read
All of the shit flinging between TPP, FS and Dwlee makes me want to rip my hair out
Meanwhile we have obvscum like Axel floating by
At least scum Mirhawk is the leading wagon
Don't worry Cakez, you can just shoot Axel tonight right? :p
↑SirCakez wrote:This thread is getting painful to read
All of the shit flinging between TPP, FS and Dwlee makes me want to rip my hair out
Meanwhile we have obvscum like Axel floating by
At least scum Mirhawk is the leading wagon
Agreed and I like my hair.
No matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
And maybe, just maybe, that'll take you right where you were supposed to be.
↑Cerberus v666 wrote:
The fact that I can't prove that it was terrible, doesn't mean it wasn't. It was what it was, regardless of what I am capable of proving. And yes, you are correct, the only important thing is whether or not he sincerely believed it, which is why I backed off in the post you're talking about, and noted that it may have simply been bad town play, rather than scum.
I have a problem with this though. Nine times out of ten Information like what Piper had comes from a PR, your assertion that Dwlee was scummy or making a bad play is ridiculous seeing as how it's far more reasonable for him to assume that Piper being a PR was the source of the information rather then assuming it was from some other hijinks.
↑Cerberus v666 wrote:
The sloppy play on the part of TPP as scum would have been the reveal of a bunch of information for no benefit. Information which was unlikely to have been gained by a single slot through usage of that slots powers, and which was therefore NOT easily explained away. The only aspect of in the information they shared which was relevant to their tictac read was his neighborizing, which is clearly not something which should have been revealed given the lack of pressure on both them and tictac at that point. This is, again, speaking as if they were scum. The softed innocent/oversell of their read on tictac, due to his role? That was clearly a setup for a future date where they could pass on an innocent/guilty gained via tictacs investigative power without outing him.
See, that's the thing. In that whole sequence, I see town motive for at least the soft on tictac, if not for the PR knowledge claim, but I don't see scum motive for any of it, and it's all really quite sloppy as scum play.
I more or less agree, but I think it's just as sloppy for town as it is for scum.
↑Cerberus v666 wrote:
I mean, simply put, the majority of what's been used as reasons to believe FS is scum, is crap. None of the cases presented have resonated with me at all.
I've felt this way all game about pretty much every major wagon.
↑Marquis wrote:(psa this is going to be pretty anticlimactic because i just realized i'm going to be late to work if i full-expand now but)
↑Mirhawk wrote:If Marquis is a cop then he checked the right people.
Low activity people who scum probably won't leverage a NK against are good targets.
okaaaaaaaay guys here's where the fun actually begins. Mirhawk making this "~if~ marquis is a cop" post pushed me to do an ISO dive on him to check if this really weird unnecessary qualifications placed when talking about my role had any precedent (basically matching it up against how scum do that thing where they're all like "iffff this player is this role" to make it look like they're uninformed town who doesn't know if, whereas town surprisingly often forego that "if" and auto-assume something this believable to be true)
VOTE: Mirhawk
and while his "skeptical" stance on me post-my-claim today matches up somewhat (except him dropping my innocents as scumreads and pushes entirely, despite supposedly not fully believing my claim) I'm reasonably confident that Mirhawk is scum due to really really weird inconsistencies in his reads onnnn
Spoiler: skybird (which his read on seemed to change as the support for it did, including mentions of her in between the inconsistencies without any sort of indication of read on her)
↑Marquis wrote:My strongest scumread is still Skybird - who just jumped in, quoted the mod innocent, and unvoted (again, scum just doing the bare minimum to try and look town, with no trajectory of other reads or where to revote).
you're looking at 2534 as a scum indicative post right now. And I'm having a hard time believing that you actually believe that.
Sure, some of skybird's stuff D1 was not good stuff but how is unvoting an IC alignment indicative at all? How would Skybird reasonably expect to think that she was looking town from that move? How does the amount of effort that Skybird puts in indicative?
you're either hard confbiasing right now or just trying to get skybird lynched based on faulty premises.
Yeah, Skybird never stopped being scum. I still support this.
↑Mirhawk wrote:@Marquis
You can count me as being on the Skybird wagon. My vote isn't there, but I definitely support it.
I just don't really want to move off Cakez because I feel like if I let him slip away I'm not going to get another chance because somehow everyone isn't seeing how obviously scummy he is.
↑SirCakez wrote:So you're saying
Every single person who has a high scumread on someone needs to go indepth on their scumread on them, keep pushing the wagon forward and continuously analyze your posts? That's terrible, not every read is going to get a ton of justification.
I've never pushed wagons on Pist (except for the Miller CC, but that wasn't a scumread for anything else) or Piper, and Skybird isn't attacking me right now.
You made a hundred and fifteen posts before you got around to your justification. That's not failing to go in depth, that's failing to do anything.
What serious scumhunting did you do during that time frame that required you to not push your top read? There was none, you just kept a running commentary on the game.
The fact that skybird any pistachio aren't your scumreads is my point. You keep trying to paint this situation as you being exclusively attacked by your scumreads, and that isn't true.
↑Mirhawk wrote:I was going to make a joke about eating cake after chicken or something like that, but then I realized that was dumb.
I can play ball on this, other people are supporting this wagon now so I'm not as worried about it dying out overnight. Not to mention I'm having a hard time believing I can scrape five more votes up by the end of the day.
Unvote
Vote: Skybird
and
Spoiler: sircakez, who i'll pull up more quotes on later bc i'm rushing right now
↑Mirhawk wrote:Going to admit I've been avoiding the game because I don't want to reread day one. I'm thinking I'll just not do it, that'll help. I'm not super enguaged with what's going on today in any case. Marquis killed both of my secondary scumreads leaving me with only Cakez, and to be honest I'm getting tired of pushing him. He's obviously scum but you all have your heads up your butts and don't want to see it or something like that.
↑Mirhawk wrote:I more or less believe Nacho's response, at least in regards to the joat/neiborizer bit. I think that they handled the whole thing super friggin awkwardly but I do believe it.
I do however still have problems with the "exaggeration" over how many PR's were on the line. Not only that, but there wasn't much reason to out Cakez just now, as it's more of a matter that they think he's the vig rather then they know. Pretty much everyone and their dog was calling for a hit on snarky so I dunno.
The exaggeration was in essence a lie. A lie told to the rest of town for what benefit precisely? I'm not sure what that wizard stuff is about or how they thought it would help town, because I don't really see how it would. Just like I don't get why you would out Cakez just now when you could have just as easily defused Dwlee's argument without doing that.
I don't believe in lynch all liars, as it's stupid and inflexible in general. I do however believe that any lying being done to other members of the town does have to be for some kind of tangible benefit. If you can't trust the word of other townies the game become exponentially more difficult for town.
I'm not seeing a benefit in saying you had to out multiple PR's to explain your read on Tictac, would you care to explain it to me.
Also pushing Dwlee for this is dumb. He noticed a clear discrepancy in the information Piper was providing and pushed it. Saying he should have made an intuitive leap and known that Piper wasn't saying their information came from their role is stupid. It's so much easier to say it was obvious in hindsight and everyone who's saying he should have noticed it is being scummy as hell, if it's so obvious why weren't any of you saying anything about it over the last couple days.
↑Mirhawk wrote:Also Cakez, it'd be super cool if you didn't shoot me if you are the vig.
...who mirhawk goes from
>a massive push and top scumread when skybird was gaining traction
>to word for word "to be honest I'm getting tired of pushing him [sircakez]. He's obviously scum but you all have your heads up your butts"
>to somehow immediately believing tpp's crumb pickup claims despite scumreading tpp intensely, immediately treating cakez like town, and practically catering to cakez with like no mention of any paranoia or anything, which makes no sense given he was your biggest scumread toward the end of day 2
i have to go but like what the heck how was this not visible before
his treatment of skybird + tpp + cakez + me_and_my_innos is inconsistent and nonsensical to various degrees
Oh hey, this is terrible and wrong.
The if thing is... well... if you want to believe it be my guest. I think it's stupid, as you're talking about someone who routinely edits their own posts to make sure they're factually correct and corrects their own spelling and grammar in follow up posts. However if you want to believe this isn't a thing I wouldn't normally do all the power to you.
I was responding negatively to skybird from their very first post. I had voted for them by halfway through day one and was reasonably sure they were scum in the same day. This is not a read that I changed at any point throughout the game so I really don't know how you could think my read on them is inconsistent. They were only my top scumread for a short stretch of day one, but they were A scumread for the whole damn game.
Cakez is still my biggest scumread. I literally don't know how you could read my posts and think I was 100% buying into Pipers crumb junk. I was considering it, as it would be stupid not to, but I was in no way convinced. I'm pretty sure I said as much to Piper as well. My comment to Cakez was a joke, does anyone have a sense of humor where your from?
In the same vein why wouldn't I drop my scumreads on your cop clears? It's stupid not to. Just like its stupid to assume that you are confirmed as town for giving them. The only thing that matters here is if you are what you say you are. If you're town then they are cop clears, if you're scum they aren't. I literally don't understand why you think I would keep pushing them as that would clearly be a terrible fucking play.
To be perfectly honest I'm kind of insulted by the last two points I addressed here, as the only way for me to be scum based off those is if I was either terribly gullible or a complete idiot.
