A Musical Mafia! (Game over)

[pistachi0n]

yeah the reads list seemed a little forced.

although, most reads lists do.

how do you not have a read on cerb?

[Cerberus v666]

yeah the reads list seemed a little forced.

although, most reads lists do.

how do you not have a read on cerb?

Do you? O.o

[pistachi0n]

Weakly scum, why are you surprised that I have a read on you?

[Cerberus v666]

I just haven't seen you express one overtly. It's about what I expected.

[Mirhawk]

You know what, I honestly believe that there is a reasonable chance that maybe flubber isn't a neighborizer but is playing along just to fuck with us...

There is no way that would be happening unless flubber was scum, probably Piper too in that case.

I think it's pretty certain that Flubber is either a neighborizer, or their both scum.

[Mirhawk]

/s

lol nevermind.

[Mirhawk]

They stated that they couldn't disclose why they thought Tictac was town "without outing a bunch of PRs for no reason" (exact wording) in 3920.

They later admitted that the only PR they would have to out was Tictac himself. This was in 4302.

To be perfectly honest I think they could have done that without giving as much of Tictac's role away as well, but that's more opinion then anything else.

So... Is this a case you're making for Piper-scum, or a matter of opinion?

(no need to respond to this, Dwlee)

Only the last line is a matter of opinion.

I guess I am making a scum case on Piper. That wasn't my original intent when I chipped in on Dwlee's argument, but I guess it's more or less become that.

[Mirhawk]

Ugh, 4590.

[Mirhawk]

I'm not sure what that wizard stuff is about

This is part of why you don't understand what we were doing.

Then what were you doing? Because the way I see it is that you created an elaborate lie to justify not revealing information about Tictac FOR NO BENEFIT AT ALL. This is not a town attitude, why would town even do this.

I do however still have problems with the "exaggeration" over how many PR's were on the line.

Nacho didn't out every single person that we have a PR read on. You pushing at this angle bothers me because the only way that we can prove we weren't exaggerating is to list the rest of them and that would be anti-town as hell. Nacho was able to talk about it without saying everything but I wouldn't have been because I only have two modes: cryptic and verbose and I can't choose between them very well. The entire thing is a lot of threads tangled together in my head and I can't just pull one thread out and show it to you because of the way it is all interconnected.

You were exaggerating. I'm only using that word to describe this because that you you said you were doing several pages ago. I don't want to hear about you "other PR's" anyways I've never asked about them and I don't care about them, they're probably a terrible mishmash of shitty crumb guesses and meta junk anyways as that's the bulk of what I've seen from you this game.

My problem here is obviously that you claimed you couldn't talk about Tictac without outing a whole load of PR's, then when you were catching a lot of flak over it you did exactly that and DIDN'T have to out a bunch of PR's to do it. You created an elaborate lie to explain why you couldn't do something, when apparently you always could do it in the first place.

I also don't like the fact that you're trying to make this out to be me fishing for PR's, when I'm not pressuring you for that information at all.

I do however believe that any lying being done to other members of the town does have to be for some kind of tangible benefit. If you can't trust the word of other townies the game become exponentially more difficult for town.

It sounds like you think that we're town, and you know that we're not village idiots, and therefore it is not too much to ask for you to have extended some measure of trust towards us that even if you couldn't fully understand why we're doing something, we're doing it for good reason that will make sense in a day phase or two. I don't think everyone pushing us to reveal information that we hinted would be anti town to reveal is town, but a number of you must be town and it's baffling.

No I don't think you're an idiot, which is why I'm concluding that you didn't something this dumb as town.

If I came to you after I got caught lying about something in the game and tried to wave it off by saying you should trust me maybe in a couple days you'll find out why I did it, Would you let that slide? I don't think so.

You know, by my reckoning Tictac should have used their investigation night two. I don't recall Tictac or Flubber ever saying they had used one. Did I miss this?

They were pretty obviously getting vigged night 2 so they needed to use their bulletproof shot instead to have a chance at surviving long enough to investigate. That's part of what we were doing on day 2 with implying that they were town in a way that could be construed as an inno: trying to prevent them from getting vigged.

This actually was me misunderstanding Joat's. I didn't realize at the time that a Joat had to pick a night to use for their BP. I figured that it simply triggered when they were shot.

[Mirhawk]

I can't remember who was certain early on, like early day 2, that there is a sk or vig. And it's not something which is easily searchable. Anyone know who that was?

Sometime at the beginning of day two someone said that if there was a SK they were trying to look like a Vig.

I don't remember who said it though.

[Mirhawk]

The point of the post was somebody said that I was lying and tried to use social pressure to get me to reveal more information than I wanted to reveal and I was refusing to give way.

You did lie.

I'm not trying to squeeze anything out of you about other players, I WANT TO KNOW WHY YOU LIED.

[Mirhawk]

Oh yeah Mir where the fuck has your Cakez push been in the last few pages cause A). Cakez is obvTown B). You haven't done shit to push it.

Seriously screw you. Do you even read my posts.

[Mirhawk]

Also Cakez, it'd be super cool if you didn't shoot me if you are the vig.

You never say this to your top scumread ftr. Mir is just outed, we have a few days before deadline, can we get him to claim yet and do final readlist thing and questions soon.

Pedit: in case you didn't notice Skybird flipped scum.

I'm apparently outed here, and even if that wasn't the case I could only apparently be town if the game is bastard.

Don't pretend to be concerned about my reads now.

[Mirhawk]

On that note people don't forget that FS was a couterwagon to town d1

What town was Seniors a counterwagon to? His wagon was going pretty much the whole day.

[Mirhawk]

Everything is blending together ahhhhhh
I've been skimming a lot but the tl;dr looks like Dwlee still wants to murder TPP and TPP makes a lot of really long posts

Dwlee - do you often deathtunnel as town? Can you give me examples if so?

It would make me feel better that everyone apparently thinks your town if you at least tried to act like it.

Even a token attempt at scumhunting would be better then what you're doing.

[Mirhawk]

Blue: someone accused me of exaggerating when I wasn't.

Yes you were. You're the one who said that that's what you were doing.

[True Ogre]

They stated that they couldn't disclose why they thought Tictac was town "without outing a bunch of PRs for no reason" (exact wording) in 3920.

They later admitted that the only PR they would have to out was Tictac himself. This was in 4302.

To be perfectly honest I think they could have done that without giving as much of Tictac's role away as well, but that's more opinion then anything else.

So... Is this a case you're making for Piper-scum, or a matter of opinion?

(no need to respond to this, Dwlee)

Only the last line is a matter of opinion.

I guess I am making a scum case on Piper. That wasn't my original intent when I chipped in on Dwlee's argument, but I guess it's more or less become that.

Well I'm just wondering how the top two points are scum-indicators. Like, at some point you're going to have to give a solid reason why they get a scum-benefit from that. imho at least.

I can't remember who was certain early on, like early day 2, that there is a sk or vig. And it's not something which is easily searchable. Anyone know who that was?

Sometime at the beginning of day two someone said that if there was a SK they were trying to look like a Vig.

I don't remember who said it though.

That was itle actually, and I agreed. SK targetting Snarky == vig, or SK acting like a vig.
Him saying that was where I got my first townping on top of beeboy's play.

Blue: someone accused me of exaggerating when I wasn't.

Yes you were. You're the one who said that that's what you were doing.

Absolutely agree here actually. And the fact that Ploti apparently wants to make like we're having some unfortunate and incontrovertible argument that is detrimental to town won't stop me from pointing it out.

Piper (mainly Nacho I think) gleefully decided to soft up a storm and refer to that and other crumbs for days on end and now for some reason they're butthurt that it's an issue and are blaming everyone but themselves for causing the discussion.

I don't really want to lynch you today Mirhawk - Cerb's going nowhere and I'd have to do work to check his story - so for me, the two best lynch choices are actually Seniors and Piper.
I wouldn't have thought that lynching Piper was a good idea even a couple of days ago but frankly I'm so irritated at the hydra's behaviour today that their flip might be beneficial just to find out where they're coming from. There might be scum in there harping on about their crumbing, or defending it, but if so they're making no effort to identify which is which. I'm not opposing a Piper lynch anymore.

Also, I'm not going to oppose your lynch either Mirhawk. If you have town-stuff to say then you can act like it and leave your legacy.

Anyway, maybe it seems like I'm having my cake and eating it too, but here it is:

VOTE: Friendless Seniors

[Mirhawk]

It's cool. I think I've made my reads pretty clear at this point, if anyone want's details on any of them they can ask though.

There lots of potential scum advantages that could be gained from misleading town in this manner. They range from trying to accumulate towncred, to softing a PR role for later, to trying to assume a town leader position.

These aren't all things that wouldn't necessarily be advantageous for town players as well, but I have difficulty believing that Piper would have though that the best way to go about it was to lie to everyone about it. I mean lots of those benefits are thing town players can normally accumulate simply by good town play, there should be no need for town to lie to try and gain those benefits.

[True Ogre]

Mkay. Did you crumb or claim your musical yet?

I'm thinking of having that discussion soon. Flavour tentatively points to seniors-scum.

[Mirhawk]

Nah I haven't done either of those.

I've mentioned that my role is not related to my flavor though.

Do you want a flavor crumb? I don't see how it could be helpful, but I could provide one if you want it.

[True Ogre]

I've been in flavour-mindset ever since the first set of flips, but as far as crumbing or claiming, it's up to you.

I think it helps town to know in advance because of the fact that Skybird had zero self-consciousness about claiming her actual flavour and to me that speaks of a scum faction that have no awareness of the current flavour patterns. But conversely it could inform any fakeclaims from scum later. Although I think that's risky business considering the claim could conflict with another existing musical.

[SirCakez]

I'm aware I'm not scumhunting right now Mirhawk and it's largely because everyone wants TPP/FS dead and those are both fairly strong town reads of mine so its making it difficult.

I'd really like an Axel wagon

[SirCakez]

VOTE: Axelrod
You guys should join this! I know there's a bunch of people with scumreads on this guy and he's basically coasting.

[podoboq]

I'm aware I'm not scumhunting right now Mirhawk and it's largely because everyone wants TPP/FS dead and those are both fairly strong town reads of mine so its making it difficult.

I'd really like an Axel wagon

You could always make a case on Mirhawk, you know, the leading wagon, which you were voting for. But instead you're complaining about how we're all voting for town (when you're on the leading wagon), and then starting a new vanity wagon with three days on the clock.

What?

[podoboq]

Yesyesyesyesyes
VOTE: Mirhawk

Why is it so hard to form a Mirhawk wagon all of a sudden? Marquis has a pretty solid case.

I'm aware I'm not scumhunting right now Mirhawk and it's largely because everyone wants TPP/FS dead and those are both fairly strong town reads of mine so its making it difficult.

I'd really like an Axel wagon

VOTE: Axelrod
You guys should join this! I know there's a bunch of people with scumreads on this guy and he's basically coasting.

What changed?