A Musical Mafia! (Game over)

[The Pied Piper]

SirCakez - I don't like players spending too much time talking about Meta, as I view that mostly as filler bullshit that people spam when they don't have real cases. I would like to point out though that my experience with Cakez makes me aware that he doesn't have to spend most of day one with his thumb up his butt doing nothing, especially not pushing the scumread he spent the whole friggin day voting for. Have any of you paid attention to his posts today, he's spent most of the day coasting/saying Mirhawks scum/complaining about other players. He doesn't even seem to care that I'm about to be lynched, he probably couldn't act more apathetic then he is. 10/10 scum, I'm disappointed in everyone who doesn't see this.

Your dislike of meta is your dislike of his playstyle; this has absolutely nothing to do with his alignment and is a dislike that is not game-related. He didn't spend "most of Day 1 with his thumb up his butt doing nothing"; at the time, I thought a lot of it didn't really make sense, but saying that he wasn't doing anything at all is pretty much completely wrong if you make the effort to read his posts. If you'd like to disagree with this, go right ahead and I'll start happily dumping quotes as long as you need me to. Today, he's been reiterating his townreads on us/FS and scumreads on you/Axel. This is not really different from what every single player this game day has been doing; it's been a lazy as fuck game day where the only thing that seems to happen is people keep reiterating shit they already said, so Cakez isn't exactly some shiny amazing scumread that everyone are idiots for missing for doing something that everyone else has been doing all day.

[Cerberus v666]

Not voting piper or Mirhawk ftr

How about Axel?

@Dram: Its an understatement, but the majority of the pressure on TPP today has arisen from the whole softed innocent thing.

[dramonic]

I'm not trying to convince

you

of your own alignment. My ISO is there if you need a refresher and it's not a long read.

EDIT: @Cerb: I'm not saying some people aren't purely focused on that, I'm saying "ITS ALL BECAUSE OF THE CLAIM!" is (yet again) bull from the tpp slot.

[The Pied Piper]

dramonic - Doesn't say a lot, but is consistent in his reads. Engaged much more in day three and whenever he does make substantial posts they seem pretty good. Other then the fact that I wish he offered his opinions more freely instead of waiting for people to press him on them I find him fairly townish.

Consistent, yes. Good? No. I'm also struggling to see where you're seeing substantial posts in his ISO; could you be hallucinating them? For fun, let's just take a glance at a substantial dramonic post:

*furious dryhumping*

In reference to Marquis voting a scumread. This is no different than what he's been doing every time someone votes one of dramonic's very consistent scumreads.

He's scum is what's up

"My scumread is scum". No different than anytime he mentions one of his scumreads, isn't that just remarkable???

I'm pretty sure I called out all three of your asses before you adressed me.

"My scumreads aren't OMGUS because I called you out first!" - Probably not false, definitely not substantial or "pretty good".

That is one shitty excuse to vote me mate. You're "not comfortable" voting someone else without review? That is such wishy-washy bull

"You're not comfortable voting anyone else but me? You must be scum!" - dramonic. Substantial? Good? No.

I'm not going to waver unless you provide a reason for me to, but every post you make just confirms my read further so...

"You are scum!"

Okay, I want everyone to take a moment to read that quote and tell me what sort of town tries to convince someone of a read by saying "But he attacked you, therefore he must be scum!"
So I guess the answer to the rest of that post would be that yeah, you're just a bad player

This is the best and most substantial thing dramonic has posted the entire game, but is unfortunately horrendously wrong and shows that he either doesn't know how newer players tend to approach the game or doesn't care.

TPP come on

"You disagreed with my scumread! You suck!"

And after I dryhumped you for a good fifteen minutes. SHAME man.

"You disagreed with my scumread! You suck!"

[dramonic]

the selective quoting is a nice touch, gotta admit.

[The Pied Piper]

I'm not trying to convince

you

of your own alignment. My ISO is there if you need a refresher and it's not a long read.

EDIT: @Cerb: I'm not saying some people aren't purely focused on that, I'm saying "ITS ALL BECAUSE OF THE CLAIM!" is (yet again) bull from the tpp slot.

I wasn't asking you to try to get you to convince everyone of my alignment. I'm trying to get you to show the people how terrible your read is in your own words; all I can read from your ISO in thinking that we are scum is because we sound fake and some garbage logic that has to do with the claim stuff. Am I wrong or does that summarize your read on us pretty solidly?

All of the people who aren't purely focused on that (Dwlee, Friendless Seniors) have garbage reasons for scumreading us that don't have a chance in hell of gaining any sort of traction whatsoever. The reason there is lynch pressure (which you + Dwlee + Friendless couldn't create in just your little trio alone) is because of the crumbing situation. I suppose there's also a situation in which True Ogre could maybe create lynch pressure on us given sufficient time and paranoia but I also have no idea what his reasons for scumreading us are other than "I love Nacho's town play but I don't love Nacho here" and don't think that's a very rousing and inspiring case.

[Cerberus v666]

This is Nacho, yes? The whole colorcoded post from your hydra with the interpretation he has of everything was indeed pretty substantial.

I'm interested in what your objective is here. What are you trying to say about dramonic?

[The Pied Piper]

What are you trying to say about dramonic?

He's annoying as hell.

[The Pied Piper]

The whole colorcoded post from your hydra with the interpretation he has of everything was indeed pretty substantial.

I will enjoy this very much.

[The Pied Piper]

that "we're good so don't question us" asbsurdity...

This is part of why you don't understand what we were doing.

This was in response to Mirhawk saying that he didn't understand what the wizard stuff was about. Plot said "yep, you don't understand what we're doing". Can you explain how this is suddenly "we're so good so don't question us" to me, Cerb?

[The Pied Piper]

that "we're good so don't question us" asbsurdity...

It sounds like you think that we're town, and you know that we're not village idiots, and therefore it is not too much to ask for you to have extended some measure of trust towards us that even if you couldn't fully understand why we're doing something, we're doing it for good reason that will make sense in a day phase or two.

Mirhawk said that he believed us, and that we handled it awkwardly. He was asking what the town benefit in exaggerating the number of PRs was. The response was "give us a little trust, it will make more sense later". Does this sound nothing like "we're so good don't question us?" or is this just me?

[Cerberus v666]

What are you trying to say about dramonic?

He's annoying as hell.

Eh, that's not really relevant to anything. He's the least intrusive type of annoying there is, and it says nothing about how you feel about his alignment. Why are you wasting time on it?

Pedit: It sounds to me like he got the impression that that comment was ego fuelled, rather than an honest description of the situation . It could easily be taken to mean plot was implying that Mirhawk wasn't capable of understanding what they were attempting, rather than meaning (as is clear to me) that Mirhawk lacked the appropriate frame of reference to interpret what they were doing, because he had no experience with what they were referencing..

Peditx2: that line does sound like it a bit, honestly. There is an implication there that you're so good that whatever you're doing won't be picked up on by scum, so it'll definitely pay out, and when it does, it'll all make sense.

[The Pied Piper]

that "we're good so don't question us" asbsurdity...

You don't understand how newbies think. The rest of us know that you only need five completed games to be an IC and we think "five games? that's not that many. i was practically a newbie myself when i only had five completed games! oh man I was so dumb back then."

Plot's argument was that newbies tend to have a skewed perception of what an IC is, and that they didn't think that tictac would go from newbie game as town immediately into neighborizing their IC. I understand where this argument is coming from although I do disagree with it. The problem with it is nowhere near "we're so good don't question us" unless you are a person who is completely incapable of reading which, although you couldn't tell from this game, dramonic isn't.

[Cerberus v666]

Let me clarify, that ISN'T what I got out of the posts, but I can understand why others may have gotten different impressions..

[The Pied Piper]

Eh, that's not really relevant to anything. He's the least intrusive type of annoying there is, and it says nothing about how you feel about his alignment. Why are you wasting time on it?

Why am I wasting time on it? Because people are going "wow, look at dramonic's posts, they make so much sense and they are great!" and I am annoyed at reading things like that. I'm tired of being railed on for shitty reasons and I'm annoyed as hell at this game so my alternatives are currently "rip the annoying people apart until they shut the hell up" or "go back to lurking because I hate how much this game pisses me off". Which would you rather me do?

[Cerberus v666]

Eh, that's not really relevant to anything. He's the least intrusive type of annoying there is, and it says nothing about how you feel about his alignment. Why are you wasting time on it?

Why am I wasting time on it? Because people are going "wow, look at dramonic's posts, they make so much sense and they are great!" and I am annoyed at reading things like that. I'm tired of being railed on for shitty reasons and I'm annoyed as hell at this game so my alternatives are currently "rip the annoying people apart until they shut the hell up" or "go back to lurking because I hate how much this game pisses me off". Which would you rather me do?

Obviously the first, or the unlisted third option of not wasting your time and instead outline your thoughts on people who aren't FS, because even if you're right about them, there are still two other scum out there!

[Cerberus v666]

MINIMUM! There might be 3! Or more in some weird universe with multiple scum factions and protectives and shit.

[The Pied Piper]

Pedit: It sounds to me like he got the impression that that comment was ego fuelled, rather than an honest description of the situation . It could easily be taken to mean plot was implying that Mirhawk wasn't capable of understanding what they were attempting, rather than meaning (as is clear to me) that Mirhawk lacked the appropriate frame of reference to interpret what they were doing, because he had no experience with what they were referencing..

"It sounds like you think that we are town" - where is there ego in this comment?
"You know that we're not village idiots" - saying that we aren't idiots is a pretty far cry from "omg we're the greatest people alive you could never understand what we're doing because we're so advanced!", no?
"therefore it is not too much to ask for you to have extended some measure of trust towards us" - trust us. that's all this line is saying is to please trust us for once. is that ego driven? is that "you can't understand what we're doing because we're an idiot?"
"that even if you couldn't fully understand why we're doing something, we're doing it for good reason that will make sense in a day phase or two." - even if you don't know what we're doing right this second, you will understand it soon. that doesn't mean we're saying that mirhawk is dumb. that doesn't mean we're saying that we are smart. that means we are operating from a different frame of reference that will become clearer in a day or two. where does that say that we are ego-driven and fuck you because you don't understand what you're saying?

It's clear to you that the comment isn't ego fueled because you're reading and understanding what we are saying. Do you really think that anyone who reads that comment and actually thinks about it reaches the conclusion that it's ego driven? No, you don't, unless you think the player in question is an idiot, and dramonic isn't an idiot. He just isn't reading.

[The Pied Piper]

and looks like i was responding to the wrong comment which means that you actually agree with dramonic - do you mind explaining this to me a little bit? where in that second comment did plot sound like they were saying that they were smarter than Mirhawk and Mirhawk just couldn't understand where we were coming from with our awesome play and he shouldn't bother to question it because he didn't understand?

[The Pied Piper]

Pedit: It sounds to me like he got the impression that that comment was ego fuelled, rather than an honest description of the situation . It could easily be taken to mean plot was implying that Mirhawk wasn't capable of understanding what they were attempting, rather than meaning (as is clear to me) that Mirhawk lacked the appropriate frame of reference to interpret what they were doing, because he had no experience with what they were referencing..

Where did Plot imply that Mirhawk wasn't capable?

[Cerberus v666]

(This is somewhat unrelated, but....I only have 5! solo games on site, WDPT, UNIMUM, FFVII, Inorganic Chemistry, and Open 623. And I have 6 hydra games. So, the idea that someone should still be considered "new" after 5 games, is a little foreign to me. I guess it depends on the nature of those games.)

Pedit: I already explained it? I don't agree with it, but I CAN see how someone could get the wrong impression from a post that is essentially saying "yes, you don't understand what we're doing".

[Cerberus v666]

He didn't, but people are sensitive and stupid Nacho, you know that! They will always interpret things in the worst possible way, unless given a reason not to!

[The Pied Piper]

Obviously the first, or the unlisted third option of not wasting your time and instead outline your thoughts on people who aren't FS, because even if you're right about them, there are still two other scum out there!

I've explained why I'm doing what I'm doing. Me doing this doesn't mean that I'm not going to comment on anything else, but it does mean that I'm going to confront people that have been pissing me off. I've tried ignoring them and doing other things, and that lead to 2. I'm taking another approach. Why are you talking to me about my approach instead of taking your own advice and outlining your thoughts on people?

[The Pied Piper]

Pedit: I already explained it? I don't agree with it, but I CAN see how someone could get the wrong impression from a post that is essentially saying "yes, you don't understand what we're doing".

I can too, or else I wouldn't be telling dramonic he was annoying the shit out of me. I would be telling him that he is scum.

[Cerberus v666]

He didn't, but people are sensitive and stupid Nacho, you know that! They will always interpret things in the worst possible way, unless given a reason not to!

Especially if that interpretation supports a pre-existing position on someone's alignment!

Pedit: cause I'm lazy yo, and quite literally the only two people who I'm actively scumreading are the two top wagons.

I have no idea who the fourth/fifth are if I'm right about them.