[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Ircher]

Hmmm...

Loving Immunity

Roles

1.

Town Lover

(Knows partner)
2.

Lynchproof Town Lover

(Doesn't know partner)
3.

Bulletproof Town Lover

(Doesn't know partner)
4.

Town Lover Enabler Enabler

5.

Town 2-Shot Neighborizer

6.

Deathproof Mafia Lover

(Doesn't know partner)
7.

Mafia Lover Enabler

8.

Vanilla Townie

9.

Vanilla Townie

10.

Vanilla Townie

11.

Vanilla Townie

12.

Mafia Goon

Mechanics/Setup Details

1. The Lovers are paired and the pairing is not random: Deathproof+No Modifier is the first pair, and the Lynchproof+Bulletproof are the second pair.
2. With the exception of the plain town lover, the person a player loves is not revealed to them.

This is required for balance reasons.

3. When the Mafia Lover Enabler dies, players no longer suicide when their partner dies.
4. However, if and when the Town Lover Enabler Enabler dies, Lover mechanics work as normal from that point forward.

Note: It is imperative that this is the case, even if the Mafia Lover Enabler dies first, for balance purposes.

[JasonWazza]

1. Town Lover (Knows partner)
6. Deathproof Mafia Lover (Doesn't know partner)
1. The Lovers are paired and the pairing is not random: Deathproof+No Modifier is the first pair

Town plain lover claims D1, takes the lynch

You then bring it down to a 7/2 or a 6/2

I don't see any real reason not to, then play it like a regular game of mafia really.

I don't feel the lover interactions make that much of an impact on the game play, they just make the 9/3 into an early 7/2 by game mechanic.

[Ircher]

What if I didn't reveal the other modifiers?

[JasonWazza]

The main thing you have to change is the fact that only one Lover actually knows his partner, either all of them should know, or none of them, anything else can too easily give away a role.

Not revealing the modifier's just means that 3 will think they are town lovers, but 1 will know a partner.

[Ircher]

Hmmm...

Loving Immunity

Roles

1.

Town Lover

(Doesn't know partner)
2.

Lynchproof Town Lover

(Doesn't know partner)
3.

Bulletproof Town Lover

(Doesn't know partner)
4.

Town 2-Shot Neighborizer

5.

Deathproof Mafia Lover

(Doesn't know partner)
6.

Mafia 2-Shot Neighborizer[color]
7.

Vanilla Townie

8.

Vanilla Townie

9.

Vanilla Townie

10.

Vanilla Townie

11.

Vanilla Townie

12.

Vanilla Townie

13.

Mafia Goon

Mechanics/Setup Details

1. The Lovers are paired and the pairing is not random: Deathproof+No Modifier is the first pair, and the Lynchproof+Bulletproof are the second pair.
2. The person a player loves is not revealed to them.

This is required for balance reasons.

3. Lynchproof and Bulletproof modifiers are hidden.

Now, none of the townies know their modifier, so the game is no longer broken. No one knows their partner either.

[xyzzy]

I don't have a clever idea for a name:

2 mafia
8 townies
1 public cop

the way the public cop works is that the PC chooses an investigation target and then the result is publicly revealed, but no name is attached to it. the mafia, in addition to a night kill, also have their own public cop ability. therefore, each day, the town is given a message with either "2 town", "2 mafia" or "1 town, 1 mafia". the public cop doesn't receive any additional information about the investigation results.

obviously, the mafia can manipulate their half of the results however they like, since they already know the alignment of anyone they investigate; if both investigations are for the same alignment, the PC can be completely sure of the result, so the challenge for the mafia is to try to predict who the PC will target and always target someone from the other faction (or just kill whoever the PC targets if it's a townie).

[JasonWazza]

I don't see why you would bother with actually targeting anything but townies in that setup, because the public cop has to assume he might be hitting scum or town when he hits scum, but knows who the townies are.

And when the public cop claims it likely just comes out as a counter claim of cops situation anyway.

And in that case this turns more into a game of town hunting rather then scum hunting.

If you pick the scum to broadcast as mafia, your just playing russian roulette because, assuming the PC isn't actually announced as the PC, you have no way of actually knowing if your going to get checked, and if you do end up getting caught, your confirmed guilty right then and there.

[Sméagol]

The mafia should never claim.
The town public cop should probably only claim when he has a confirmed guilty, which is when there are 2 mafia results.
Xyzzy's intention is for the mafia to potentially thwart the cop by going for mixed results. In order to do that, they have to guess who is the likely (town) cop target. If you have a mixed result the town cop isn't sure whether it's his target who's mafia. You can discuss it, but then the town cop will be killed.
So it's basically a cop with a disadvantage.

[JasonWazza]

But again if your going for mixed results as mafia, your playing Russian Roulette with yourself.

You'd be better off killing off likely cop targets.

[Sméagol]

Actually my first thought was that mafia should only reveal townies.. Then I forgot why and invented an argument why it worked.. You're right.
So basically this role only amounts to a few confirmed townies at most.

[callforjudgement]

Well, it's a 9:2. You wouldn't expect town to have a lot of power in one of those.

[JasonWazza]

I wouldn't say town power is the problem, more Mafia's ability to stop from being steamrolled is the problem.

They need to not only survive 4 lynches (3 reaches LYLO) but eliminate a cop (or at least have killed some of his innocent results that he is likely to get, cause they will bite you in the ass)

There's only so much Mafia can do in this.

[callforjudgement]

After the Micro version of Vote for Town was tested, with the game working out pretty well, I've been considering a larger version:

Vote for Town 16p

• 11 Vanilla Townies
• 5 Mafia (no nightkill)
• Nightless, daytalk
• Instead of voting to lynch, you're voting for a player who gets to "escape" the game, helping out their faction (thus townies want to vote for town)
• Self-hammering is allowed; non-hammer self-votes are banned
• Plurality lynch at deadline (or earlier if a player is hammered)
• Town win if half the townies (i.e. 6 townies) escape
• Mafia win if half the Mafia (i.e. 3 Mafia) escape

This has an EV of 50% exactly. (This may be slightly too high, but given that the mechanic tends to "naturally" get rid of the stronger townies I'm not convinced, and adding two VTs to counteract this would have issues of its own.) The "you win if half your faction escapes" wording is something I thought up today, and produces a Flag mechanical effect in the most intuitive way I've seen. The flags are larger than normal; this is intended to counter the effect where an inactive or obvious Mafia member can make the a Vote for Town game very hard to win for scum (who can afford to "effectively sacrifice" two members). It also means that the game will last at most 8 days (compared to Vote for Town 8p's 6), so despite the size, it's unlikely to drag on.

There are a couple of other nice theoretical properties too: although I haven't found a way to mathematically quantify swing yet (which is something I'm thinking about), I'm pretty sure it's at or very close to the mathematically optimum value; and unlike most setups, it can tolerate a small amount of flaking even without the slots being replaced (which means that the game can survive just fine while waiting for a replacement).

[xyzzy]

I don't really think "can go for a maximum of 8 days!" is a selling point in a 16 player mountainous game.

[callforjudgement]

It's better than going for 14, which is what the default would be for a 16p nightless. (Or in other words: it's not intended as a selling point but as a sanity check, showing that a Nightless that large is potentially viable.)

[xyzzy]

3/4 Wager

a series of 3 person mountainous games with a total of 4 players in the setup--each round, one player is out of the game (with an ordered cycle to which player isn't in the game at any given time), and that player is told the identity of one of the town players at random.

each player begins the game with 5 points, and any time the town wins, each town player receives 1 point, and any time the mafia wins, the mafia player receives 2 points.

after the player not in that round is told the identity of a town player and before voting begins each game, each player in the game may wager 4 points that they will win that game. if a town player wagers that they will win and is correct, they will receive an additional 6 points at the end of the game, and if they are incorrect, the mafia player will receive an additional 4 points; if a mafia player wagers that they will win and is correct, they will receive an additional 12 points at the end of the game, and if they are incorrect, each town player will receive an additional 2 points. the player not in the game may wager 3 points on whether the town or mafia will win, and if they are correct, they will receive 6 points at the end of the game. players may not wager points that they do not have.

the first player to 30 points wins the game. if two players reach 30 points in the same game, the player who has the higher score wins. if both players have the same score, the one who won more wagers wins. if both players won the same number of wagers, the player who won the most games wins. if both players won the same number of games, both players win.

thoughts???

[Realeo]

My reaction ix mixed there. The series of scum hunting sounds good, but the wager is not.

Do you realize that when players are closing to the 30 points, everybody will wager everything, removing the strategic part of the game?

[Ircher]

The Circle of Peace

Role List:

2-Shot Bulletproof Peacemaker

Mafia 1-Shot Strongman

Mafia 1-Shot Neighborizer

Mafia 1-Shot Vote Silencer

Town Jailkeeper

Town 1-Shot Bulletproof

Vanilla Townie * 7

Peacemaker Abilities & Win Con:

Win: You win when three consecutive phases pass (Day, Night, Day or Night, Day, Night) without a kill.

Abilities (

1 per phase

; Resolve in Twilight or Day Start)
1) Negotiations - Choose a player to target. If successful, that player will be added to your neighborhood thread for the following 3 phases.
2) 2-Shot Diolomacy (Must be used within first 72 hrs if used in day) - Choose a player to target. If that player were to die that phase, whether by lynch or by kill, you will instead lose 1-shot of your bulletproof modifier (if any remain), and the lynch or kill will not go through.
3) Investigate - Choose a player to both role cop and alignment cop.
4) Silence - Choose a player to target. If used in the day, that player will be unable to perform any actions during the following night phase. If used at night, that player is rendered voteless the following day. Cannot be used on or before MyLo or LyLo.

Mafia 1-Shot Vote Silencer:

Night Ability: Once per game, you may choose a player to render voteless the following day. Cannot be used before LyLo or MyLo.

Other:

1) Mafia have daytalk
2) Strongman will supersede everything else.
3) If the peacemaker wins, the game ends immediately.

[Sméagol]

I think town needs more power, but more importantly;

Whether the peacemaker wins is more based on luck then anything else. It's dependent on other players not in his faction. I'm not a player, but to me this doesn't seem like it's fun to play with. Even if it does win, I suspect it would feel like a cop-out to

everyone

, including the peacemaker, if the game ends that way.

[Ircher]

Why luck?

[Postie]

1) Negotiations - Choose a player to target. If successful, that player will be added to your neighborhood thread for the following 3 phases.

Wouldn't this confirm the peacemaker as either the peacemaker or Mafia to the neighborised player?

[RadiantCowbells]

The Circle of Peace

Role List:

2-Shot Bulletproof Peacemaker

Mafia 1-Shot Strongman

Mafia 1-Shot Neighborizer

Mafia 1-Shot Vote Silencer

Town Jailkeeper

Town 1-Shot Bulletproof

Vanilla Townie * 7

Peacemaker Abilities & Win Con:

Win: You win when three consecutive phases pass (Day, Night, Day or Night, Day, Night) without a kill.

Abilities (

1 per phase

; Resolve in Twilight or Day Start)
1) Negotiations - Choose a player to target. If successful, that player will be added to your neighborhood thread for the following 3 phases.
2) 2-Shot Diolomacy (Must be used within first 72 hrs if used in day) - Choose a player to target. If that player were to die that phase, whether by lynch or by kill, you will instead lose 1-shot of your bulletproof modifier (if any remain), and the lynch or kill will not go through.
3) Investigate - Choose a player to both role cop and alignment cop.
4) Silence - Choose a player to target. If used in the day, that player will be unable to perform any actions during the following night phase. If used at night, that player is rendered voteless the following day. Cannot be used on or before MyLo or LyLo.

Mafia 1-Shot Vote Silencer:

Night Ability: Once per game, you may choose a player to render voteless the following day. Cannot be used before LyLo or MyLo.

Other:

1) Mafia have daytalk
2) Strongman will supersede everything else.
3) If the peacemaker wins, the game ends immediately.

nty

[Ircher]

Well, I just want to see a setup with a player whose goal is to get 3 consecutive phases to end with no kill.

[Sméagol]

Why luck?

It's dependent on other players not in his faction.

There's only so much a peacemaker can do to prevent deaths with the abilities you've given him (i.e. very little). Like Postie points out, it also makes the peacemaker very obvious. Since both town and mafia don't want him to win, it's the number one lynch target. Being a peacemaker sucks.

[_Max_]

There was a thread dedicated to Mafia role ideas. It has a cult leader role in it. Does anyone know where I can find this thread?