A Musical Mafia! (Game over)

[Malakittens]

Taking test tonight then I'm basically this games servant. <3

[The Pied Piper]

Frabjous news! The maximum post length has been increased again.

Axelrod 5157

Cerberus v666/millar13

_904

=953 =959 =1749 =2039 ☾ =2535 =2575 -3332 ☾ ==3875 -4297 -4425 ☾

dramonic

-720 --904 =970 v1024 --1027 -1031 -1036 -1038 -1068 -1069 -1296 -1299 -1343 --1512 --u1698 =1749 --1954 ☾ -2500 -2575 --2667 -2930 -2933 -2964 -3240 ☾ =3743 --3875 --4822 ☾

drmyshottyizsik/talah/True Ogre

==904 =923

-1299

-1357 ☾ +2500 =2575 =2640 +2928 +2930 =3013 -?3240 =3335 ☾ =3741 =3743 -+3757 ++==3875 =4823 =4824 r r ☾

dwlee99/Sakura Hana

-?=52 -56 -61 -68 -152 -288 ==904 =962 -970 =1749 -1939 ☾ -+2532 --2539 -2547 -2575 -2640 r +-+3154 =3240 +-3332 ☾ -==+3757 --3875 +4400 ☾

Flubbernugget/tictac

+152 =154 ==904 =1954 ☾ -2500 -2526 -2535 =2538 --2543 =2582 -+-2660 -2698 +-2933 +2951 +3165 ☾ =3743 r --3875 -+4400 -4434 +4822 ☾

itlepip/Jim/beeboy

-152 -155 -+288 ++904 +923 =970 -1291 -1294 -1357 -1512 =1954 ☾ r -+2533 r =2660 =2698 =2928 -2933 -2964 =3240 ☾ =3757 ==3875 ☾

Malakittens/THE WRONG LYNCH

v-29 -46 -61 -68 =73 +u152 =288 ==904 -?=1939 ☾ --2539 --2543 +2928 =2930 -2933 -=3013 ☾ -+3757 ++-3875 ☾

Marquis/Amihan

+506 -+-538 ++904 =943 =953 =1299 =1340 ☾ r +-+2528 =2535 ++2660 -2930 +3240 ☾ +3741 ++3757 ++3875 =4013 =?4015 +4487 -4734 =4735 ☾

Mirhawk

+152 +288 ++904

++943

=953 +959 ++1512

-?+?=1697

+1699

=1701 =2341 ☾ =2500 =2528 +2530 +2538 +2539 +2930 +2951 +3165 =3240 ++3409 ☾ =3743 -+3757 ++==3875

++4487

++4734 ++4735 -4744 +4822 +5157 ☾

pistachi0n

v506 u538 ==904 =943 =953 =1299 ☾ -2500

⌾

=2575 =3240 ☾ +3757 ++3875 =4734 ☾

podoboq

++833 ++904

++1300

++1343 ++1954 ☾ ++2536 +2582 +2660 -2928 +2933 =3540 ☾ +-+3757 ++3875 -4772 -4774 =4775 =4808 ☾

SirCakez

+152 =516 ++904 -1027 -1031 =1036 =1296 +1357 -1701 -1749 -1750 +1954 ☾ -2500 -2530 =2535 --2538 --2539 =2543 -2660 -2698 -2928 -2951 -3165 -3401 =3409 ☾ =3741 =3743 =3757 --3875 -4400 -4487 -4734 --4735 --4774 --4775 --4808 --v4822 -4876 u5157 ☾

The Pied Piper

-29 =33 -61 -68 =73 +152 =288 ==904 =943 =1357 =1939 ☾ =2535 =2538 =2640 -2930 ==3013 =3152 +-3163 =3166 +3240 +==3332 +=3409 =3586 ☾ -3741 -3747 +-+3757 ==3875 -4294 --4400 =4434 =4734 ☾

---

Ranger/swordsworth

--904 r +1290 -1358 -1512 -1697 -1699 =1749 +1750 +1838 =1954 ✝

SnarkySnowman

+?=298 --904 -1357 -1359 --1512 --1698 =1749 +1954 ✝

Spiffeh

=727 -==904 =996 ==1512 =1698 =1939 ✝

Tammy

++904 ++996 ++1696 ✝

Skybird

=31 ==904 +1340 =1954 ☾ --2500 -2528 -2530 -2930 -2951 =3166 =3168 -==3240 -3332 -=3335 -v3398 -=3487 +-+-3511 -3540 -3586 ✝

Friendless Seniors

-29 -46 -52 -61 -68 =73 -?+?=152 +?155 -+288 -v298 u506 v538 -+--904 +-923 =970 u1024 -1069 +1294 =1299 -1340 +-1357 --1513 -+-1697 +1699 -1702 v+1838 -1843 -1939 +1944 +1945 --+1954 -+-2038 -?2341 ☾ -2500 -2526 -2528 -2533 --2535 -2536 -2538 --2539 -2575 =2577 =2660 =3240 =3332 =3409 ☾ +3741 =3743 +3744 +3745 ==3875 -4400 -4425 -4487 -4822 --4853 -v5157 ✝

davesaz

-152 -288 --904 --943 +1024 =1068 -1299 =1343 --1512 ☾ +2500 +-==2526 =2535 -2930 =3240 -3511 ☾ =3743 ++-3875 ✝

I will write more words about this in the morning.

[pistachi0n]

Ok, so you've given us lots of numbers and interactions, and I'm looking forward to seeing more words in the morning. Ar you considering interactions initiated by the other people whose alignments we don't know, or things they said about our confirmed scum flips independent of interactions?

[Cerberus v666]

Plotinus: Is there...a key somewhere?

[Mirhawk]

Plotinus: Is there...a key somewhere?

I agree. What am I even supposed to be seeing here?

Also I agree with Dwlee to a certain degree. I expect more of a position from you on which people you think are most likely to be scum. Which of the players you've singled out do you think are most likely to be scum? Least likely? Why?

You've thrown a lot of information at us with very little analysis. I don't particularly believe that you're mulling this out as you go. You had a lot of time to do that while you made these maps, surely you have some more concrete opinions by this point.

[Mirhawk]

Is Cerb your top scumread? I'm having trouble telling. You talk about him a LOT, but I don't really see anything aside from supposition.

[Dwlee99]

mirhawk we should hydra.

[Cerberus v666]

I think it's more like I'm the easiest(well, second easiest) thing to post stuff about, since in the different tiers where they expected differing numbers of scum, I was alone in one tier(since I was left off the list). Makes sense that sorting me would be the first priority. *shrug* That's just how I see it though. Hey, Mirhawk, I've become super disconnected from this game again. Who's scum again, to you? I know it's in your ISO, but I can't remember.

[Cerberus v666]

(Other than Piper ofc, we all know Piper is one)

[Mirhawk]

I don't like giw solid and open you expect or want everyone's reads to be

I think it depends on context. I often play my reads close to my chest and I understand when other players might want to as well.

However I also believe that (within reason) anytime someone else in the game requests your position on something the town thing to do is to oblige them.

Piper is in the middle of posting a big friggin case on... someone?

I don't think its out of line to demand they actually state what direction they're going with this. Because it looks to me like they're posting a lot of reasons to scumread a whole bunch of people, but aren't apparently pushing any of them themselves. Rather they're waiting to see what everyone's reaction to this is.

[Mirhawk]

I think it's more like I'm the easiest(well, second easiest) thing to post stuff about, since in the different tiers where they expected differing numbers of scum, I was alone in one tier(since I was left off the list). Makes sense that sorting me would be the first priority. *shrug* That's just how I see it though. Hey, Mirhawk, I've become super disconnected from this game again. Who's scum again, to you? I know it's in your ISO, but I can't remember.

Yeah piper obviously, I've made my position on that fairly clear.

Cakes still irks me. I mean has anyone paid much attention to him over the last couple days? He's coasting so hard I think some of the laws of physics are being broken. I don't think I've seen pretty much anything of substance from him since mid day three, and even at the deadline yesterday he was bizarrely uncaring about the fact that his top scumread all game was about to be lynched.

I still find you mildly suspicious I guess, but you're engaged in the game and interesting to talk to so I rather like you. You're also one of the only players from the other side of the fence who's willing to discuss things with me, so that's in your favor as well.

I'm still suspicious of Pip, but he lives in deathtunnel central, and it's making it hard for me to read him. I think I'm too close to the issue to determine if I'm scumreading because he's scummy, or because he's driving me nuts.

I've lately been suspicious of Flubber. They're playing this game WAY to close to their chest and I don't know why. It makes me suspicious.

[itlepip]

I reconsider reads, and when I did that with you you were scummier ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Mirhawk]

Taking test tonight then I'm basically this games servant. <3

Mala!

Save us from bad reads!

[Marquis]

Sorry guys. This has fallen by the wayside during finals, but I should be back and catching up in the next two days.

[The Pied Piper]

legend

• + working together with somebody, townreading them, defending them, buddying them, helping them, allying with them
  
• - working against somebody, scumreading them, attacking them, pushing them, discrediting them
  
• = neutral interactions, usually quoting somebody without either attacking or defending them, sometimes these are just interactions about setup spec or passing mentions of a slot, sometimes this is responding to a case someone made against you without making it clear whether you’re scumreading them in return or townreading them.
  
• == stating explicitly that a person is a null read
  
• ? I didn’t understand this reaction. this modifies a previous symbol, so +? means “is this an interaction with a townread?” and -? means “is this an interaction with a scumread?” and +?-? means i have no clue what’s going on in that post.
  
• v votes
  
• u unvotes but only if someone says who they’re unvoting because i’m lazy
  
• ☾ marks boundaries between days.
  
• ✝ a gravestone to mark that a slot has died.
  
• R marking the boundaries where a replacement of the slot i'm mapping occurred
  
• r shows where the slot they're interacting with was replaced
  
• ⌾ marks a slot that has been tree-stumped or had their alignment revealed by the mod (IC or similar)
  
• _ conspicuous absences (the only slot left off a readslist, for example)

[Mirhawk]

mirhawk we should hydra.

Cool times, can't say as I've ever hydra'd before.

After this game or after I'm dead though.

[Mirhawk]

I reconsider reads, and when I did that with you you were scummier ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I would like to know exactly when you did this "reconsidering".

I have a specific time I think It would have happened at, but I'd like to hear it from you.

[itlepip]

Whenever I have iso dived you, so I've done it twice after catchup

[The Pied Piper]

Also I agree with Dwlee to a certain degree. I expect more of a position from you on which people you think are most likely to be scum. Which of the players you've singled out do you think are most likely to be scum? Least likely? Why?

I think that this is an unreasonable thing to ask for thanks to the whole "we are working on a reread" thing and the whole "we just posted a bunch of analysis" thing. You pointed out that Plotinus is pointing out a bunch of work on ISO maps and that you'd expect that reading can give you opinions, but the entire point of rereading is starting from a fresh slate and trying to see things that you haven't before. This was a specific type of analysis. Plot pointed out that some of it led in unexpected places and that they wanted to actually read people's ISOs before they saw how they felt about it, which seems completely reasonable to me; why isn't it to you?

Your "oh, they're just trying to see where people are going" accusation is also strange, considering the game state. The same people who have been pushing us for the past couple of days are pushing us today. Everyone else is pushing you. Do you have a huge expectation that someone is going to come out and decide to push someone else? From the main focus group in {Cerb, dram}, I'm more inclined to see dramonic as scum, but I'd appreciate clarity on Cerb. Both players are players I don't particularly expect to be able to read well except in exceptional circumstances (horrid scum play on Dram's part, great town play on Cerb's) and so these are the types of players that I focus on when scum reads are going to shit.

I don't buy the case on Cakez because it's based on an unsubstantiated coasting claim that can't really be backed up except by small stretches of inactivity here and there; it's a horrible and easy case to make, and "oh he's coasting" is why people who have played games that shouldn't get them mislynched suddenly get mislynched because they run into a busy stretch. And yes, I still think that it is very very likely the vig and would rather not make that any more obvious than it already is, although I'm sure you're in the "he's obviously wrong and thus he's scum camp!" since you believe that role speculation has something to do with our alignment.

Itlepip is a player that's also fallen off the map easily but also looked pretty good early game; I understand your frustration with him tunneling you, but I don't really think that it's alignment relevant in the way that you think it is.

[Mirhawk]

Hrm, not what I was expecting. I was expecting you to say that you reread me right before you started pushing me, as that's the largest change in your attitude towards me that I can remember.

I'm not really sure how you can say rereading strengthened your read on me though. I mean you have already said a number of rather ridiculous things previously. I mean you called me confirmed scum, and stated that I could only be town if the game was bastard. That's about as confident as you can get. Was this after one of your ISO's? I can't remember exactly when either of them happened.

[The Pied Piper]

You've thrown a lot of information at us with very little analysis. I don't particularly believe that you're mulling this out as you go. You had a lot of time to do that while you made these maps, surely you have some more concrete opinions by this point.

I think that you don't understand what we are doing here or I think that your scumread on us is strong enough where you don't actually care what we're doing. And I understand the place that you're at because I've been there plenty of times before and I understand there's not really a whole lot I can say that can shake you out of it, but I don't think you care about what we're writing.

The analysis portion provided in the latest series of posts were interactions that stood out to Plot and why they stood out to Plot. An interactions case is not a cornerstone of a full case on someone; it is another way to approach the game and find points to focus on, which is what we're doing now. Scum and town have interactions that suck, but bad interactions shouldn't guide a case on someone unless they are horrendously, horrendously obvious.

[The Pied Piper]

Is Cerb your top scumread? I'm having trouble telling. You talk about him a LOT, but I don't really see anything aside from supposition.

No. Dwlee is my top scumread. The interactions map and things gotten from the interactions map do not represent all of our reads as a whole and the entirety of our thoughts on the game as a whole, which seems to be where the confusion is stemming from.

[The Pied Piper]

I don't think its out of line to demand they actually state what direction they're going with this. Because it looks to me like they're posting a lot of reasons to scumread a whole bunch of people, but aren't apparently pushing any of them themselves. Rather they're waiting to see what everyone's reaction to this is.

Except... We don't know what direction we are going. That's the point. What piece of this reasoning is so unreasonable or irrational to you?

[Dwlee99]

For your top scum read you just about never mention me lol

[itlepip]

I think Dwlee is acting too incompetent to be scum but enough to maybe look at a policy/vig at some point.