I've personally been restraining myself from interacting with you whenever possible because I don't think it's a productive path to follow.In post 5598, Dwlee99 wrote:For your top scum read you just about never mention me lol
Then What's the point other than to flood the thread with...stuffIn post 5597, The Pied Piper wrote:Except... We don't know what direction we are going. That's the point. What piece of this reasoning is so unreasonable or irrational to you?In post 5584, Mirhawk wrote:I don't think its out of line to demand they actually state what direction they're going with this. Because it looks to me like they're posting a lot of reasons to scumread a whole bunch of people, but aren't apparently pushing any of them themselves. Rather they're waiting to see what everyone's reaction to this is.
In post 5593, The Pied Piper wrote:but the entire point of rereading is starting from a fresh slate and trying to see things that you haven't before.
In post 5595, The Pied Piper wrote:An interactions case is not a cornerstone of a full case on someone; it is another way to approach the game and find points to focus on, which is what we're doing now.
For the record I don't really think that there's a such a thing as starting from a blank slate here. It's almost impossible to prevent your previous opinions from tinting any new reads. This isn't really central to any actual point, I just would like to point our my opinion on that.In post 5593, The Pied Piper wrote: I think that this is an unreasonable thing to ask for thanks to the whole "we are working on a reread" thing and the whole "we just posted a bunch of analysis" thing. You pointed out that Plotinus is pointing out a bunch of work on ISO maps and that you'd expect that reading can give you opinions, but the entire point of rereading is starting from a fresh slate and trying to see things that you haven't before. This was a specific type of analysis. Plot pointed out that some of it led in unexpected places and that they wanted to actually read people's ISOs before they saw how they felt about it, which seems completely reasonable to me; why isn't it to you?
Your "oh, they're just trying to see where people are going" accusation is also strange, considering the game state. The same people who have been pushing us for the past couple of days are pushing us today. Everyone else is pushing you. Do you have a huge expectation that someone is going to come out and decide to push someone else? From the main focus group in {Cerb, dram}, I'm more inclined to see dramonic as scum, but I'd appreciate clarity on Cerb. Both players are players I don't particularly expect to be able to read well except in exceptional circumstances (horrid scum play on Dram's part, great town play on Cerb's) and so these are the types of players that I focus on when scum reads are going to shit.
I don't buy the case on Cakez because it's based on an unsubstantiated coasting claim that can't really be backed up except by small stretches of inactivity here and there; it's a horrible and easy case to make, and "oh he's coasting" is why people who have played games that shouldn't get them mislynched suddenly get mislynched because they run into a busy stretch. And yes, I still think that it is very very likely the vig and would rather not make that any more obvious than it already is, although I'm sure you're in the "he's obviously wrong and thus he's scum camp!" since you believe that role speculation has something to do with our alignment.
Itlepip is a player that's also fallen off the map easily but also looked pretty good early game; I understand your frustration with him tunneling you, but I don't really think that it's alignment relevant in the way that you think it is.
Why do I have to keep saying this to you. You've accused me of saying things I've right out never said several times now.In post 5605, Mirhawk wrote:Also I have NEVER said that role speculation has anything to do with your alignment. You're flat making that up. I challenge you to find the place where I said it.
I get what you're doing, I just don't see the point if you're not aiming to use it to find scum.In post 5595, The Pied Piper wrote:I think that you don't understand what we are doing here or I think that your scumread on us is strong enough where you don't actually care what we're doing. And I understand the place that you're at because I've been there plenty of times before and I understand there's not really a whole lot I can say that can shake you out of it, but I don't think you care about what we're writing.
The analysis portion provided in the latest series of posts were interactions that stood out to Plot and why they stood out to Plot. An interactions case is not a cornerstone of a full case on someone; it is another way to approach the game and find points to focus on, which is what we're doing now. Scum and town have interactions that suck, but bad interactions shouldn't guide a case on someone unless they are horrendously, horrendously obvious.
I don't really have a problem with this, although I'm lost as to why your scumreading Dwlee.In post 5596, The Pied Piper wrote: No. Dwlee is my top scumread. The interactions map and things gotten from the interactions map do not represent all of our reads as a whole and the entirety of our thoughts on the game as a whole, which seems to be where the confusion is stemming from.
The part where you apparently have no plan to use this information to develop new scumreads until someone else does it for you.In post 5597, The Pied Piper wrote: Except... We don't know what direction we are going. That's the point. What piece of this reasoning is so unreasonable or irrational to you?
Ironic.In post 5599, itlepip wrote:I think Dwlee is acting too incompetent to be scum but enough to maybe look at a policy/vig at some point.
In post 5557, The Pied Piper wrote:I'd probably post it in something like pastebin.com, but I need to ask if it's allowed or not; many mods don't allow outside links to game related content. I can copy paste the code into the reply box and hit preview and see it and from there I can follow the links in a new tab, and it can even be saved as a draft and all that, it just can't be posted without getting a mysql error. I ran into the same error when trying to post the final mod scenes for a game I just finished modding; it was irritating.
I could also take a screenshot of the preview screen but it is better if the links are clickable, to be able to look for patterns on your own and then follow a link or two to see where they go.
@Mod: may I put a bunch of post tags in a site like pastebin.com similar to the one in 3114 and link to it?
Yes, that's the next step.In post 5577, pistachi0n wrote:Ar you considering interactions initiated by the other people whose alignments we don't know, or things they said about our confirmed scum flips independent of interactions?
Start here. It was one of my favourite moments in mafia, spending a 3 pages in 3p LYLO with Mastina and figuring out that we were town together and then lynching scum together.In post 5601, Flubbernugget wrote:I think I just realized how terrifying a 1v1 between mastin2 and Plotinus would be
okay, thanks for letting me know. It's no longer needed anyway because the site error has been fixed now.In post 5614, Rob14 wrote:I'd prefer if you didn't since I have no way to police the fact that you didn't edit the pastebin at a later time.
Basically you are just being lazy and saying that any vote against someone that is scumreading you is OMGUS. Mirhawk's is OMGUS because the reason he gives for scumreading me is that I am scumreading him. TPP's, whether valid or not, is based on interactions with flipped scum.In post 5617, itlepip wrote:no. Good try though.
Notice how you're alive and my top suspect from yesterday is dead. I wasn't attacking, I was going through your reads because they suck and I wanted to see if I could set you on a better path; reads sucking don't make someone scum.In post 5607, Mirhawk wrote:And while we're on the topic, what in the blue hell was up with whatever you were doing right before the deadline yesterday?
I was L-1 with less than a day till the deadline when suddenly you start this up.
Piper: "Mirhawks town!"
Piper: "Look at all mirhawks reads, they're terrible. Tons of suspicious bad holes in them everywhere"
Piper: "Mirhawks town!"
If the point of this argument to say that we wouldn't put this much effort in for obvious and immediate gain, then I suggest you read Plotinus's games or allow me to shore you Plotinus town posts.In post 5609, Mirhawk wrote:I get what you're doing, I just don't see the point if you're not aiming to use it to find scum.
If you don't intend to build cases on it then it feels like a lot of effort for.. what exactly? A vague idea which members of town scum could be hiding in? I mean, I already have one and it only took about half an hour and a spreadsheet.
How else are you supposed to find scum, then? What do you think is the most reliable tell? It's always easier for me to find scum when there's been a flip or two. The game is about interactions.In post 5609, Mirhawk wrote:I find associatives a vague and frustrating way to look for scum in general. I'm always terrified of leaving them when I'm scum, and I have a ton of difficulty finding them when I'm town. And that's before things happen to muddy the water like scum purposely screwing with associatives.
This wasn't a very interesting post.In post 5622, dramonic wrote:zzzzz
And if you'd like me to phrase this in a less combative way, no we are not just trying to look for a vague idea of where the scum are and this is something that I feel is decently obvious since that's not something someone spends a significant amount of time looking for. I find your "I did what you did with 30 minutes and a spreadsheet!" comment to be intentionally insulting. If I have misinterpreted this, could you talk about what directions you've found from it because I haven't seen those directions through your posts today (all of your reads look exactly the same).In post 5620, The Pied Piper wrote:If the point of this argument to say that we wouldn't put this much effort in for obvious and immediate gain, then I suggest you read Plotinus's games or allow me to shore you Plotinus town posts.In post 5609, Mirhawk wrote:I get what you're doing, I just don't see the point if you're not aiming to use it to find scum.
If you don't intend to build cases on it then it feels like a lot of effort for.. what exactly? A vague idea which members of town scum could be hiding in? I mean, I already have one and it only took about half an hour and a spreadsheet.
If that is not the point of the argument, then what are you doing here other than being an ass?