New York 195: Adventure Mafia - Game over!

[Titus]

I only see that Zakk is scum if copper is scum.

did you cover reasoning for this between pg 4-7? i'm on pg 4. if not, could you expand a bit? i didn't come to that connection.

I didn't.

Zakk coming out swinging as scum would only be to cover or hide something, it's more likely town. Swinging during RVS is high risk high reward strategy. Most of the time, it doesn't happen. Then Zakk's interaction with Copper and unvoting Ircher admits his push is RVS. If Zakk was RVSing hard to appear townie, he probably doesn't unvote Ircher but pretends to have something serious. The calculus changes a bit if Copper is scum. Then he wants to back off Ircher, let town demolish him, and hope Copper is forgotten about entirely.

ok, so.. i guess my trouble in understanding what you're saying here is that i didn't get the impression that zakk was doing... anything.. really. but after the first sentence you kinda lost me.

actually i dont understand at all. are these hypotheticals of his possible future behavior? or an analysis of what actually happened? what i saw was zakk sheeped shotty - null - then saw a bunch of pages posted and unvoted - also null - and hasn't really been involved since. what makes you think he's only scum if copper is? like, is it a kind of "if copper flips scum, look at zakk more closely" or "if copper flips scum, THEN zakk is definitely scum" (if this, why) or is it more "zakk is a solid town read UNLESS copper flips scum", and.. what is your read on copper?

p-edit i'm actually kind of town reading magnus but i'm wary because i get the feeling he's incredibly skilled at being scum.

Analysis of what happened. If you don't think Zakk was doing anything, we interpret things differently. I think every post, every word, everything has meaning. I don't see Zakk sheeping. He's pushing too hard to be a sheep. The last is the answer. I've been told I shoot down ideas though. I was never reaching Zakk scum based on his opening without Copper scum but I've been told that I am very dickish in approaching things that way. So I tried saying it another way.

My read on copper is hardcore scum. It hasn't changed. He hasn't done much to engage the thread. He's trolling around pretending we're in RVS to have his vote on a townread. His trajectory is shit.

[Titus]

if your reads = guesses just replace out now.

duh titus don't you know that you can't guess at mafia, you have to only say things you know 100% to be true? shotty don't be ridiculous. we are barely scratching the surface of day 1 in a damn large game. wtf you think we all got daycops? i'd be suspicious if someone's reads were overly certain at this point in the game.

but on a srious note, titus, he's right about the copper thing - i was under the impression that he was attacking copper, not defending him?

p-edit i was going to respond in p-edit but i need to read that a couple times first. i'll come back to it. thanks

He's got "copper" as a scumread, but doesn't really attack him. His interactions are all "I'm telling you Ircher's dead" and not pressing on his opinions. Copper's a scumread, but every post seems designed to have Copper look good.

When I cased Copper, Shotty acted like it didn't exist.

Defenses don't have to be direct.

"the case presented by or on behalf of the party being accused"
"the action of defending from or resisting attack."
Nice back pedal, wait no it's not.

Huh?

[Lowell]

I'm going to throw this out there and let it marinate. See how well it ages.

magna is scum.

Something about his ISO bothers me. He wrote a lot to just agree with two short posts voting for TBG. He's written a lot about a LOT, but somehow not much. Could be this is just the way he is, but he's looking a little "coachy" to me.

Also townvibes from ETL, lessening townvibes from titus.

He is a very thorough usually.

okay, well, whatever, I'm damned sure not reading back games of someone that verbose. As I said.... consider, and come make this happen when we're done LOLhammering newbs*.


* in related news, I also plan to LOLhammer newbs.**

** but not seth. despite the sk claim (?) that guy is newbtown.

[Persivul]

I'm going to throw this out there and let it marinate. See how well it ages.

magna is scum.

Something about his ISO bothers me. He wrote a lot to just agree with two short posts voting for TBG. He's written a lot about a LOT, but somehow not much. Could be this is just the way he is, but he's looking a little "coachy" to me.

Something that pinged me on magna:

26 - to zakk: "Of course it isn’t real.

Have you ever played with Shotty before?

"

44 - "@zakk – Hey answer my question …"

232 - "@zakk – Answer my question from 26 in your next post or I’m voting you and channeling Kuribo to get your lynch pushed through today."

The question seems clearly rhetorical to me. If I were zakk I likely wouldn't have addressed it either. 232 is way overblown.

[drmyshottyizsik]

if your reads = guesses just replace out now.

duh titus don't you know that you can't guess at mafia, you have to only say things you know 100% to be true? shotty don't be ridiculous. we are barely scratching the surface of day 1 in a damn large game. wtf you think we all got daycops? i'd be suspicious if someone's reads were overly certain at this point in the game.

but on a srious note, titus, he's right about the copper thing - i was under the impression that he was attacking copper, not defending him?

p-edit i was going to respond in p-edit but i need to read that a couple times first. i'll come back to it. thanks

He's got "copper" as a scumread, but doesn't really attack him. His interactions are all "I'm telling you Ircher's dead" and not pressing on his opinions. Copper's a scumread, but every post seems designed to have Copper look good.

When I cased Copper, Shotty acted like it didn't exist.

Defenses don't have to be direct.

"the case presented by or on behalf of the party being accused"
"the action of defending from or resisting attack."
Nice back pedal, wait no it's not.

Huh?

Instead of saying well you're right shotty didn't deffend him, now you are trying to change the definition of deffend, and stop playing simple.
VOTE: Titus

[Lowell]

@pers-- finally, analysis to go along with my gut read. there we go.

[Titus]

if your reads = guesses just replace out now.

duh titus don't you know that you can't guess at mafia, you have to only say things you know 100% to be true? shotty don't be ridiculous. we are barely scratching the surface of day 1 in a damn large game. wtf you think we all got daycops? i'd be suspicious if someone's reads were overly certain at this point in the game.

but on a srious note, titus, he's right about the copper thing - i was under the impression that he was attacking copper, not defending him?

p-edit i was going to respond in p-edit but i need to read that a couple times first. i'll come back to it. thanks

He's got "copper" as a scumread, but doesn't really attack him. His interactions are all "I'm telling you Ircher's dead" and not pressing on his opinions. Copper's a scumread, but every post seems designed to have Copper look good.

When I cased Copper, Shotty acted like it didn't exist.

Defenses don't have to be direct.

"the case presented by or on behalf of the party being accused"
"the action of defending from or resisting attack."
Nice back pedal, wait no it's not.

Huh?

Instead of saying well you're right shotty didn't deffend him, now you are trying to change the definition of deffend, and stop playing simple.
VOTE: Titus

Yeah, you seriously are playing dense. You can indirectly defend people.

And now that Ircher won't take off and you can't scumread ETL (that's why you have her as bad but not scum), you jump onto me for a stretch tastic reason.

And you still won't give reads and are playing semantics with reads and guesses.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

if your reads = guesses just replace out now.

duh titus don't you know that you can't guess at mafia, you have to only say things you know 100% to be true? shotty don't be ridiculous. we are barely scratching the surface of day 1 in a damn large game. wtf you think we all got daycops? i'd be suspicious if someone's reads were overly certain at this point in the game.

but on a srious note, titus, he's right about the copper thing - i was under the impression that he was attacking copper, not defending him?

p-edit i was going to respond in p-edit but i need to read that a couple times first. i'll come back to it. thanks

He's got "copper" as a scumread, but doesn't really attack him. His interactions are all "I'm telling you Ircher's dead" and not pressing on his opinions. Copper's a scumread, but every post seems designed to have Copper look good.

When I cased Copper, Shotty acted like it didn't exist.

Defenses don't have to be direct.

I disagree that his posted scumread not resulting in immediate action at this point in time is indicative of association. I agree with the logic, just not the circumstances. I wouldn't go so far as to call it a defense though, since it wasn't really active. Your conclusion here seems to be that because he wasn't actively attacking him, he was defending him, but I don't think that's a good conclusion to come to. Like, I get your logic on this - applying the same principle as lying by omission, defense by lack of offense, but you can't apply that here. It's not like people only have one scumread at a time.

I don't actually have reads on either ircher or copper. I am bad at reading newbies.

p-edit: buncha posts.

[Persivul]

VOTE: magna

[drmyshottyizsik]

if your reads = guesses just replace out now.

duh titus don't you know that you can't guess at mafia, you have to only say things you know 100% to be true? shotty don't be ridiculous. we are barely scratching the surface of day 1 in a damn large game. wtf you think we all got daycops? i'd be suspicious if someone's reads were overly certain at this point in the game.

but on a srious note, titus, he's right about the copper thing - i was under the impression that he was attacking copper, not defending him?

p-edit i was going to respond in p-edit but i need to read that a couple times first. i'll come back to it. thanks

He's got "copper" as a scumread, but doesn't really attack him. His interactions are all "I'm telling you Ircher's dead" and not pressing on his opinions. Copper's a scumread, but every post seems designed to have Copper look good.

When I cased Copper, Shotty acted like it didn't exist.

Defenses don't have to be direct.

"the case presented by or on behalf of the party being accused"
"the action of defending from or resisting attack."
Nice back pedal, wait no it's not.

Huh?

Instead of saying well you're right shotty didn't deffend him, now you are trying to change the definition of deffend, and stop playing simple.
VOTE: Titus

Yeah, you seriously are playing dense. You can indirectly defend people.

And now that Ircher won't take off and you can't scumread ETL (that's why you have her as bad but not scum), you jump onto me for a stretch tastic reason.

And you still won't give reads and are playing semantics with reads and guesses.

Sigh, I attacked copper, you can twist that how ever you want, but you are lying and awful.
Ircher was taking off, in fact, if anything I may have just killed its momentum. I switch my vote because you, someone I already said I thought was scum, is acting like scum.
Also why do you want me to scum read ETL so bad? Did you have some master plan to mislynch me that requires me to OMGUS him?

[Lowell]

VOTE: magna

We're through the looking glass, here, people.

[Lowell]

also can we just stop embedding everything? this thread is going to be awful.

[drmyshottyizsik]

also can we just stop embedding everything? this thread is going to be awful.

I'll start spoilering sorry

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Titus - i feel like shotty really wants to attack me but knows it will look terrible if he goes too hard. I don't know if that's scum trying not to rock the boat or town being realistic though. I've done that myself as both.

p-edit: no it helps in ISO for continuity.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

oh yeah spoiler is fine

[drmyshottyizsik]

Titus - i feel like shotty really wants to attack me but knows it will look terrible if he goes too hard. I don't know if that's scum trying not to rock the boat or town being realistic though. I've done that myself as both.

p-edit: no it helps in ISO for continuity.

Just to keep it small,

p-edit well this post will be pointless

[drmyshottyizsik]

Titus - i feel like shotty really wants to attack me but knows it will look terrible if he goes too hard. I don't know if that's scum trying not to rock the boat or town being realistic though. I've done that myself as both.

p-edit: no it helps in ISO for continuity.

It's not that I'm afraid how it will look, it is that I know I will tunnel you and I want to have an even head if I ever do that.

[Titus]

Titus - i feel like shotty really wants to attack me but knows it will look terrible if he goes too hard. I don't know if that's scum trying not to rock the boat or town being realistic though. I've done that myself as both.

p-edit: no it helps in ISO for continuity.

It's not that I'm afraid how it will look, it is that I know I will tunnel you and I want to have an even head if I ever do that.

Yeah, speaking as the queen of tunnels myself, this looks like shit. You don't avoid sorting people out of fearing you'll tunnel.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Titus - i feel like shotty really wants to attack me but knows it will look terrible if he goes too hard. I don't know if that's scum trying not to rock the boat or town being realistic though. I've done that myself as both.

p-edit: no it helps in ISO for continuity.

It's not that I'm afraid how it will look, it is that I know I will tunnel you and I want to have an even head if I ever do that.

Yeah, speaking as the queen of tunnels myself, this looks like shit. You don't avoid sorting people out of fearing you'll tunnel.

Again why the fuck are you pushing so hard for me to attack ETL?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

she wants to see my reaction.

[drmyshottyizsik]

she wants to see my reaction.

By forcing action on my part?

[Titus]

Titus - i feel like shotty really wants to attack me but knows it will look terrible if he goes too hard. I don't know if that's scum trying not to rock the boat or town being realistic though. I've done that myself as both.

p-edit: no it helps in ISO for continuity.

It's not that I'm afraid how it will look, it is that I know I will tunnel you and I want to have an even head if I ever do that.

Yeah, speaking as the queen of tunnels myself, this looks like shit. You don't avoid sorting people out of fearing you'll tunnel.

Again why the fuck are you pushing so hard for me to attack ETL?

Loaded. I'm wanting you to scumhunt. To sort ETL. You don't have to attack to get there.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

she wants to see my reaction.

By forcing action on my part?

That's part of it. But also I *think* I understand why she thinks you not attacking me is scummy only because she knows how I get, but you don't so I don't know why she thinks you're avoiding it on that basis.

[SirCakez]

Bump

[SirCakez]

Bump