New York 195: Adventure Mafia - Game over!

[drmyshottyizsik]

@Shotty
You need to stop, as you seriously do not understand me at all.

die

[Ircher]

Spoiler: NY 195 - D1 Copper ISO MAY 21

1. 29 - Willing to be lynched if I'm scum -

I think this is a somewhat risky statement to make. As either alignment, it strongly suggests both Copper & I are not both anti-town. I'm leaning town here though. -

+1 Point

2. 159 -

In the @Titus section: a) No, but I would change as soon as I got a scumread. Maybe unvote if the RVSed player is town imo. b) Ok. c) His anakysis was valid imo. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. Overall, I get probably town reads from this post. It seems like a decent response to me. -

+2 Points

3. 169 - Votes Nos in 167 because of attacking me for statistics not town mindset -

I dunno.... I feel that of all the things Copper could have chosen, this just feels.... Well, this just feels nitpickey. Not sure if this is town or scum really...... -

0 Points

4. 179 -

When I look at the last few posts of Copper, I can't but help think that Copper is very skilled in rhetoric. He's like Cassius who turned the crowd against Brutus in the William Shakespearean play

The Tragedy of Julius Caesar

. I just cannot help thinking he's trying to manipulate people with his rhetorical skills. -

0 Points

5. 318 - Coming around on a scumread on me -

I fundamentally disagree with your approach here, and it really reads more as "I should change my read, so I can lynch him if necessary." Srry, but that's the motive I saw there. -

-2 Points

6.

It perplexes me as to why Copper decided to keep his vote on Nosferatu. Has Nos really struck your radar so much? If so, I think you need to expound on your earlier explanation for voting Nos. -

-1 Point

Total Score: 0 points
Average Score: 0 (0 / 6)
Final Score: -0.5 (In range of -6 to 6; includes bias score of -0.5)

I mean... what?

What's there not to get?

The

reasons

for the numbers.

Why

is the particular post positive or negative?

Why

is the particular post weighted at 1, or 2, or 3?

The numbers aren't that important for you guys as it will be for me later.

What will you get from them later? Also, how do you know that you'll get something from them later? I just checked a handful of your games and don't see you using this system. Can you point to a game where you've used it?

It looks like this is just a way of pretending to analyze without really doing so.

VOTE: Ircher

On an unrelated note, I was concerned with the way ETL and Titus fell into an easy early alliance. Good to see that breaking up.

I'll be using it when I make readlists later. Easier way to keep track of my thoughts. 1 to 5 again is based on how I feel. If I feel town has a good chance of doing the same, then its 1, etc. In the past, I used words such as "Null-Indicative", "Null-Scum-Indicative", "Town Indicative", "Very Scum-Indicative", etc. 1 is about Null-X, 3 is just X, and 5 is Very X.

I really dont see how all of you find such a system scummy, other than the reachy argument that Im pretending to analyze.

[zakk]

@Titus
So far, Ive liked your thought process plus Ive been lazy & not been doing isos.

I'm shutting up. You're standing on your own two feet.

You're shutting up because you want some other player not to copy you? What are you, FOUR?

This looks like an excuse to lurk tbh

[zakk]

@Titus
So far, Ive liked your thought process plus Ive been lazy & not been doing isos.

I'm shutting up. You're standing on your own two feet.

This is scum trying to write off their read as "j-just rvs".

Like, you went into quite a lot of detail about how it made him scum earlier. I have a hard time believing it was not a serious push.

Are you scum yourself or did you just decide to tunnel me this game? Cause I never said nor implied that my read on Nos was RVS or not serious in any way and I'd like to see what made you think that's what I said.

What I did say is that with the amount of data available any read you give me at this point in the game I can show to be complete crap by changing the assumptions (and there will be quite a few) on which it is built, my read on Nos relied on IIOA being a scumtell for her when she posted what she posted.

In other news I am liking Titus less and less, Mollie told me she is a tunneler so going off on me didn't raise any serious bells, but dropping me like a stone while still keeping a scumread

and

openly discussing her town meta about being a tunneler feels unnatural for the former and makes me wonder how calculated her initial tunnel was for the latter.

I am a tunneller. You're still scum. I'll openly discuss who I am any day this week and twice on Sunday. Nice try there though scum.

This response feels fabricated

[zakk]

Ircher, kindly shut the fuck up. The more your case gets talked about, the more credence it appears to have although it's total garbage RVS. You know it. I know it. If you actually did the slightest thing scummy, I'd be all over it. You just haven't.

You realize how Copper has displayed

actual inconsistencies

and people are pushing awkard things you are saying because they don't like math. Get real.

Ok, Cythe, was gonna give benefit of the doubt, but your last posts changed my mind.

VOTE: Cythe

How come every time I change my vote, you follow me? I don't wanna be a double voter? Stahp it.

@Titus
So far, Ive liked your thought process plus Ive been lazy & not been doing isos.

I'm shutting up. You're standing on your own two feet.

This reeks of coaching. I take it scum don't have daytalk, eh?

VOTE: Titus

Sorry, friend. You gots ta go.

I like this post.

Highly doubt it says anything about ircher, but it is a real big tell on Titus

Also didn't like how fast she abandoned copper (who she calls scum, to his face) to jump on my cytheflyguy wagon

And now I have more meta on Titus

[EspeciallyTheLies]

On an unrelated note, I was concerned with the way ETL and Titus fell into an easy early alliance. Good to see that breaking up.

We have a long history of ending up at each others throats and saying mean things, and we both know that and I think both of us actively try to be nicer to each other each time we play together. At least I do, I feel this way, cuz it's easier to remain in the game and not get burnt out. I wanted to let her know that right away so we have an understanding before shit hits the fan. Because it inevitably does when we play together.

[zakk]

Titus I suspect you and Ircher are both scum together, and of the two, you are the more dangerous. I'm happy to vote Ircher as well if it comes to that - he certainly seems like someone you've been trying to keep alive.

You honestly think ircher is scum? Totally disagree

You honestly think scum Titus would stick her neck out in public like that for a newb scumbuddy instead of crucifying him and riding it for town cred? Totally disagree

[zakk]

Titus I suspect you and Ircher are both scum together, and of the two, you are the more dangerous. I'm happy to vote Ircher as well if it comes to that - he certainly seems like someone you've been trying to keep alive.

He imo simply seems more annoyed with me rather than scumreading me, but I may be wrong.

God, can you not actually fucking listen? I can handle myself. Go fucking scumhunt. Not this numbers shit. Scum hunt. I don't want you so far up my ass. It's creepy as shit.

Laughing so hard at this sorry

[zakk]

First quote was not supposed to be there. Fkn mobile lol

[TehBrawlGuy]

+1, I like this post.

What specifically do you like about it?

VOTE: Brawl

All of it, actually. It read like a post I would have made.

I am just going to be on the biggest of TBG Copper and Shotty. I like all three wagons. Normally that doesn't happen.

I dislike this a lot. Reads as Scum who wants to avoid spearheading one particular lynch to me. The townie version of this post is like "I'll support XXX, YYY, and ZZZ wagons. I think YYY wagon is the best right now though".

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Titus I suspect you and Ircher are both scum together, and of the two, you are the more dangerous. I'm happy to vote Ircher as well if it comes to that - he certainly seems like someone you've been trying to keep alive.

You honestly think ircher is scum? Totally disagree

You honestly think scum Titus would stick her neck out in public like that for a newb scumbuddy instead of crucifying him and riding it for town cred? Totally disagree

I think she was showing a bit of anxiety at whatever he was saying because she may feel it links back to her and she sees him heading for a lynch. If they don't have daytalk, she can't coach him in the PT, she has to find a way to make him shut up in-game. She's not conspicuously "sticking her neck out" to save him, but based on her voting patterns thus far and her arguments against those voting for him, it definitely leads me to think she wants to prevent his lynch.

Also... Titus tends to protect her buddies as long as she can without giving herself away, not bus them. I've seen it time and time again, it's an innate urge for her, as much as she tries to subvert it, I still see glimpses of it, especially early in the game when no one is particularly looking.

p-edit: Even if it wasn't meant to be included, it's especially relevant to that post.

p-edit 2 - another post.

[Egg]

I agree with Titus, ETL. If you think she's coaching Ircher because they are scum together, Ircher is the better lynch today. If he flips scum, you can tell us all about this coaching. As of right now, it's an associative tell to a living player. Not really worthy of a vote.

Ircher, I decided I was voting you before I realized there was a wagon. I acknowledged the wagon and that it wasn't a problem, but unless you think I'd lie so blatantly when voting, you didn't even read where I voted you. As for the reads list, yeah you're still my strongest scum read. Why does that have to change? Yes, drmy is a stronger town read than Titus. It's hard to trust a town read on Titus. Why should I have been cautious of a zakk town read at that point? The worst thing he's done is his cythefly vote which isn't even that bad and hadn't happened yet. And I already said why killthestory is scum. If you think that readslist is random, you haven't read a thing I've posted. And to say I'm tunneling you is crazy. I've got a read on basically every active player and I'm actually having a tough time deciding between you and cythefly (I doubt you are both scum). Yes, my vote has remained on you. But for someone who just ISO'd me, you either aren't truly reading or are intentionally misrepping.

Also, Ircher, I agree with Titus. If this whole thing isn't meant to be understood by everyone else, put it somewhere else as notes. Otherwise it looks like pointless busywork.

[Ircher]

I agree with Titus, ETL. If you think she's coaching Ircher because they are scum together, Ircher is the better lynch today. If he flips scum, you can tell us all about this coaching. As of right now, it's an associative tell to a living player. Not really worthy of a vote.

Ircher, I decided I was voting you before I realized there was a wagon. I acknowledged the wagon and that it wasn't a problem, but unless you think I'd lie so blatantly when voting, you didn't even read where I voted you. As for the reads list, yeah you're still my strongest scum read. Why does that have to change? Yes, drmy is a stronger town read than Titus. It's hard to trust a town read on Titus. Why should I have been cautious of a zakk town read at that point? The worst thing he's done is his cythefly vote which isn't even that bad and hadn't happened yet. And I already said why killthestory is scum. If you think that readslist is random, you haven't read a thing I've posted. And to say I'm tunneling you is crazy. I've got a read on basically every active player and I'm actually having a tough time deciding between you and cythefly (I doubt you are both scum). Yes, my vote has remained on you. But for someone who just ISO'd me, you either aren't truly reading or are intentionally misrepping.

Also, Ircher, I agree with Titus. If this whole thing isn't meant to be understood by everyone else, put it somewhere else as notes. Otherwise it looks like pointless busywork.

You neeed to elaborate on your scumread on me. Cuz, your explanation so far is not convincing to me nor lynchworthy.

[copper223]

@Egg
You are confident of Ircher scum over Seth scum?

[Egg]

Oops didn't mean to hit submit yet. Anyway...

Anen, you sound like you want to scum read drmy but are hesitant to do so. Can you elaborate on your drmy read?

You neeed to elaborate on your scumread on me. Cuz, your explanation so far is not convincing to me nor lynchworthy

1) I've already done this.
2) You are the LAST person I'm trying to convince that you are scum.

Preview edit:
Copper, not really. I could go either way there. I singled out cythefly because if he's scum, Ircher is probably town. I could see Seth and Ircher both being scum though.

[copper223]

Cuz, your explanation so far is not convincing to me nor lynchworthy.

You realize we are talking about your lynch here? How is Egg supposed to make it look lynchworthy to you given that from your point of view he has to be wrong by default?

[TehBrawlGuy]

Also, TehBrawlGuy, in regards to #171, your defense doesn't seem strong because it doesn't matter whether or not they were both viable wagons. My point was that they were both arguing, and you basically said "yeah, both of them seem pretty bad". It seemed like you didn't want to take a side so that you could potentially vote either one if either became viable.

I could've just said nothing and been able to jump on them if I wanted to. I did want to potentially vote either of them down the line. I thought it read like SvS. I still think it reads like SvS. No shit I'm going to want to vote people I think could be Scum.

[copper223]

@Egg
Fair enough, that's what I was looking for.

@All
Pretty much never lynch this guy because he is obv. town (if he turns out to be scum I'm a cry).

I don't think Seth and Ircher being on the same team is that likely though but that may be just me and my disgust for bussing.

[Ircher]

Cuz, your explanation so far is not convincing to me nor lynchworthy.

You realize we are talking about your lynch here? How is Egg supposed to make it look lynchworthy to you given that from your point of view he has to be wrong by default?

He could do better than some rvs things & statistical discussions, and sk/multiball speculations (which is actually fair to assume in a large cuz otherwise it will last like 10 days; there's bound to be another killing role in the game)

I have yet to find him mention any other reasons, so I find it hard to believe that his read on me is 1) a fair read and 2) That strong of a read.

[SirCakez]

Lowell has been prodded.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Lol nice. xD

Lynch me if you want. I can be more use later. Right now I'll just be a potato and see how the votes go (This is my first macro game, after all)

do not like, trying far too hard to be casual townie and also gives an excuse for non-participation

[copper223]

@Ircher
It's the way you phrased it that makes me question you Ircher, that's how some third party that doesn't have knowledge of your alignment would put it but you are supposed to know you are town and factor that in, so why aren't you? Cause you are not town is the likely answer.

[Ircher]

Spoiler: NY 195 - D1 Brawl ISO MAY 22

1. 171 -

I feel mixed here tbh. 1) I agree with Project's analysis. A wagon does not need to exist for one to set themselves up to switch. 2) What do you think my tone was at the time? 3) The quote's bolded, that argument is fair. 4) You really saw it as forced? And, how is answering questions poorly (cuz the only 1 I answered poorly I believe was the statistical one) alignment indicative? I guess that's an interpretation thing. The read seems decent & supported, so --

+3 Points

2. 509 - Comments on motive of Titus's I'll be on the biggest of XXX/YYY/ZZZ wagon -

This post looks pretty good to me. I definitely agree with the comment on Titus's motive. -

+3 Points

3. 516 -

I think Brawl is being honest and genuine here, yet at the same time, the AtE seems like an overreaction. -

+1 Point

Total Score: +7 points
Average Score: +2.33 (7 / 3)
Final Score: +2.33 (In range of -6 to 6; includes bias score of 0)

Looked better than I thought

[TehBrawlGuy]

Spoiler: NY 195 - D1 Copper ISO MAY 21

1. 29 - Willing to be lynched if I'm scum -

I think this is a somewhat risky statement to make. As either alignment, it strongly suggests both Copper & I are not both anti-town. I'm leaning town here though. -

+1 Point

2. 159 -

In the @Titus section: a) No, but I would change as soon as I got a scumread. Maybe unvote if the RVSed player is town imo. b) Ok. c) His anakysis was valid imo. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. Overall, I get probably town reads from this post. It seems like a decent response to me. -

+2 Points

3. 169 - Votes Nos in 167 because of attacking me for statistics not town mindset -

I dunno.... I feel that of all the things Copper could have chosen, this just feels.... Well, this just feels nitpickey. Not sure if this is town or scum really...... -

0 Points

4. 179 -

When I look at the last few posts of Copper, I can't but help think that Copper is very skilled in rhetoric. He's like Cassius who turned the crowd against Brutus in the William Shakespearean play

The Tragedy of Julius Caesar

. I just cannot help thinking he's trying to manipulate people with his rhetorical skills. -

0 Points

5. 318 - Coming around on a scumread on me -

I fundamentally disagree with your approach here, and it really reads more as "I should change my read, so I can lynch him if necessary." Srry, but that's the motive I saw there. -

-2 Points

6.

It perplexes me as to why Copper decided to keep his vote on Nosferatu. Has Nos really struck your radar so much? If so, I think you need to expound on your earlier explanation for voting Nos. -

-1 Point

Total Score: 0 points
Average Score: 0 (0 / 6)
Final Score: -0.5 (In range of -6 to 6; includes bias score of -0.5)

I mean... what?

What's there not to get?

The

reasons

for the numbers.

Why

is the particular post positive or negative?

Why

is the particular post weighted at 1, or 2, or 3?

The numbers aren't that important for you guys as it will be for me later.

What will you get from them later? Also, how do you know that you'll get something from them later? I just checked a handful of your games and don't see you using this system. Can you point to a game where you've used it?

It looks like this is just a way of pretending to analyze without really doing so.

VOTE: Ircher

I agree with this a lot.

@Titus
So far, Ive liked your thought process plus Ive been lazy & not been doing isos.

I'm shutting up. You're standing on your own two feet.

You're shutting up because you want some other player not to copy you? What are you, FOUR?

This looks like an excuse to lurk tbh

also this

fully caught up now, reads list incoming

[EspeciallyTheLies]

which is actually fair to assume in a large cuz otherwise it will last like 10 days; there's bound to be another killing role in the game

Why are you making the assumption that 10 days is not a normal thing for LARGE games? Assume 4-5 mafia of 21 players, so 16-17 town players. Even assuming a town lynch and a town lost each day/night, a perfect scum win only requires 6-7 game days to clear town's numbers.

So... it just sounds like you are talking out of your ass here.