New York 195: Adventure Mafia - Game over!

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I mean, why are you assuming it would take 10 days? That is the question.

[Egg]

I don't think Ircher read my points against him. That or he wrongfully assumes it was RVS. I don't remember making a single RVS point in this game though.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Spoiler: NY 195 - D1 Brawl ISO MAY 22

1. 171 -

I feel mixed here tbh. 1) I agree with Project's analysis. A wagon does not need to exist for one to set themselves up to switch. 2) What do you think my tone was at the time? 3) The quote's bolded, that argument is fair. 4) You really saw it as forced? And, how is answering questions poorly (cuz the only 1 I answered poorly I believe was the statistical one) alignment indicative? I guess that's an interpretation thing. The read seems decent & supported, so --

+3 Points

2. 509 - Comments on motive of Titus's I'll be on the biggest of XXX/YYY/ZZZ wagon -

This post looks pretty good to me. I definitely agree with the comment on Titus's motive. -

+3 Points

3. 516 -

I think Brawl is being honest and genuine here, yet at the same time, the AtE seems like an overreaction. -

+1 Point

Total Score: +7 points
Average Score: +2.33 (7 / 3)
Final Score: +2.33 (In range of -6 to 6; includes bias score of 0)

Looked better than I thought

2) At what time?
4) I don't recall you answering any questions poorly, personally, but you saying that "answering questions isnt scummy" is dumb. Of course one can give scummy answers to questions. And yes, I did and still do see the interactions between you/shotty as weird. I also see the shotty/titus and titus/you interactions as weird.

[Titus]

Spoiler: NY 195 - D1 Copper ISO MAY 21

1. 29 - Willing to be lynched if I'm scum -

I think this is a somewhat risky statement to make. As either alignment, it strongly suggests both Copper & I are not both anti-town. I'm leaning town here though. -

+1 Point

2. 159 -

In the @Titus section: a) No, but I would change as soon as I got a scumread. Maybe unvote if the RVSed player is town imo. b) Ok. c) His anakysis was valid imo. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. Overall, I get probably town reads from this post. It seems like a decent response to me. -

+2 Points

3. 169 - Votes Nos in 167 because of attacking me for statistics not town mindset -

I dunno.... I feel that of all the things Copper could have chosen, this just feels.... Well, this just feels nitpickey. Not sure if this is town or scum really...... -

0 Points

4. 179 -

When I look at the last few posts of Copper, I can't but help think that Copper is very skilled in rhetoric. He's like Cassius who turned the crowd against Brutus in the William Shakespearean play

The Tragedy of Julius Caesar

. I just cannot help thinking he's trying to manipulate people with his rhetorical skills. -

0 Points

5. 318 - Coming around on a scumread on me -

I fundamentally disagree with your approach here, and it really reads more as "I should change my read, so I can lynch him if necessary." Srry, but that's the motive I saw there. -

-2 Points

6.

It perplexes me as to why Copper decided to keep his vote on Nosferatu. Has Nos really struck your radar so much? If so, I think you need to expound on your earlier explanation for voting Nos. -

-1 Point

Total Score: 0 points
Average Score: 0 (0 / 6)
Final Score: -0.5 (In range of -6 to 6; includes bias score of -0.5)

I mean... what?

What's there not to get?

The

reasons

for the numbers.

Why

is the particular post positive or negative?

Why

is the particular post weighted at 1, or 2, or 3?

The numbers aren't that important for you guys as it will be for me later.

What will you get from them later? Also, how do you know that you'll get something from them later? I just checked a handful of your games and don't see you using this system. Can you point to a game where you've used it?

It looks like this is just a way of pretending to analyze without really doing so.

VOTE: Ircher

I agree with this a lot.

@Titus
So far, Ive liked your thought process plus Ive been lazy & not been doing isos.

I'm shutting up. You're standing on your own two feet.

You're shutting up because you want some other player not to copy you? What are you, FOUR?

This looks like an excuse to lurk tbh

also this

fully caught up now, reads list incoming

What happened to this?

[SirCakez]

Votecount 1.7

Joshua Tree National Park in the United States!

cytheflyguy (6) - zakk, Titus, projectmatt, SethYazura, heuristically_alone, Ircher
Ircher (5) - TehBrawlGuy, Egg, cytheflyguy, Persivul, drmyshottyiszik
SethYazura (3) - copper223, Nosferatu, Aneninen
Copper223 (2) - Killthestory, Expedience
MagnaOfIllusion (1) - Lowell
TehBrawlGuy (1) - MagnaOfIllusion
Killthestory (1) - I Am Innocent
Titus (1) - EspeciallyTheLies

Not voting (1) - Desmond_13

With 21 alive, it takes 11 votes to lynch someone.

(expired on 2016-06-02 14:10:00) remain until day end

MagnaOfIllusion is V/LA until May 23.

[Titus]

Ircher, kindly shut the fuck up. The more your case gets talked about, the more credence it appears to have although it's total garbage RVS. You know it. I know it. If you actually did the slightest thing scummy, I'd be all over it. You just haven't.

You realize how Copper has displayed

actual inconsistencies

and people are pushing awkard things you are saying because they don't like math. Get real.

Ok, Cythe, was gonna give benefit of the doubt, but your last posts changed my mind.

VOTE: Cythe

How come every time I change my vote, you follow me? I don't wanna be a double voter? Stahp it.

@Titus
So far, Ive liked your thought process plus Ive been lazy & not been doing isos.

I'm shutting up. You're standing on your own two feet.

This reeks of coaching. I take it scum don't have daytalk, eh?

VOTE: Titus

Sorry, friend. You gots ta go.

I like this post.

Highly doubt it says anything about ircher, but it is a real big tell on Titus

Also didn't like how fast she abandoned copper (who she calls scum, to his face) to jump on my cytheflyguy wagon

And now I have more meta on Titus

Cy is scum for the same reasons Copper is. Only Cy's trajectory is worse.

The resumed attacks on Ircher and new attacks on me (that are my scumreads minus ETL) only serve to reinforce Cy being scum here.

Notice how cy being a "lazy" vote is thrown around. So what? If it's scum, it dies. The lazy comment means nothing but attempts to disparage those on the wagon. It doesn't even take a stance on Cy. It's a cop out. If people said Cy votes are bad, people would laugh or suspect buddies because Cy is obvscum or useless.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Notice how cy being a "lazy" vote is thrown around. So what? If it's scum, it dies. The lazy comment means nothing but attempts to disparage those on the wagon. It doesn't even take a stance on Cy. It's a cop out.

No.

Cy has no content. He's a fucking null. And yet he's the biggest wagon with NULL posts????

Hello? wtf are we doing... that makes zero sense.

[TehBrawlGuy]

• drmyshottyizsik - scum. The fervor between him and titus reminds me very much of when I'm scum and want to hard distance a buddy on d1. He claims to have attacked copper, but he really never has, throwing a little bit at him in RVS and then listing him as a scum read. He talked about his incredible confidence in IrcherScum while his vote was on Titus, and he hasn't really done much other than spar with Titus and Ircher despite having 80+ posts.
  
  projectmatt - slight town. I like pretty much all of his points, and I think calling me out on what he did makes the most sense as Town; I don't see a scum motive for it.
  
  zakk - lean town. thought processes match my own and seem internally consistent
  
  Ircher - scum. Don't like his interactions with Shotty or Titus, don't like his 116, or his "remember when I flip town that Shotty and Egg were the two huge activists for the lynch." in 123 His ISO analysis is "trying to look Town by posting lots of things" imo.
  
  copper223
  Egg - town. lots of good insight, clear townie line of logic
  
  SethYazura - lean scum. awful content of nonsense poetry, doesn't really comment on anything important
  
  Killthestory slight town - gut read on tone
  
  cytheflyguy - Scum. I absolutely hate the initial votes on him. They're the most textbook easy unexplained votes I've seen in a while. I was thinking it was a Scum push on a soft target, but his recent posts are really bad for reasons previously stated, and now I'm thinking some of those initial votes were Scum overreactions to his bad entrance.
  
  Aneninen- lean town. thought processes match my own and seem internally consistent
  
  Titus - slight scum. I dislike his interactions with shotty/ircher as mentioned. Only a slight read, though, as his solo content is fine with the exception of 233
  
  EspeciallyTheLies - lean town. I don't recall what they are now, but he had some posts that I read town. I also read his tone town.

[TehBrawlGuy]

tl;dr happy with any of shotty/ircher/cy lynch, keeping my vote on ircher for now due to lack of content from cy

[Titus]

Notice how cy being a "lazy" vote is thrown around. So what? If it's scum, it dies. The lazy comment means nothing but attempts to disparage those on the wagon. It doesn't even take a stance on Cy. It's a cop out.

No.

Cy has no content. He's a fucking null. And yet he's the biggest wagon with NULL posts????

Hello? wtf are we doing... that makes zero sense.

Yeah, read his two posts in isolation and tell me that's null with a straight face.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Its.

Fucking.

Null.

If he flips town, it tells me fucking nothing.
If he flips scum, it tells me fucking nothing.

All it tells me, is that the people on his wagon, are a bunch of lazy motherfuckers, or scum, or both.

The cy wagon is literally the dumbest sheep bullshit I have ever seen and unless he actually gets his ass back in here and gives me a reason to give a damn about him, I'm going to continue to think that the people voting for him are, like I said, lazy as fuck or fucking scum hopping on low hanging fruit.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

That's all i'm gonna say about it because I don't care enough in a game this large on Day One to be talking to concrete walls.

[Titus]

No. Cy prod dodges, avoiding content.

Let me catch up.
The biggest wagon is convenently the most scummy.
Go ahead and lynch me if you want.
When I find someone scummy, I do ISOs.

That's his ISO.

Second, I think everyone is capable of forming opinions as to the alignments of people based off of wagon flips. The fact you are saying you can't is highly suspect ETL. You and I have seen a lot of sheep wagons over the years. Why is this one the rare snowflake that cannot be scumhunted?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

The fact you are saying you can't is highly suspect ETL

HE'S GOT TWO FUCKING POSTS, TITUS

for fucks sake are you serious right now....

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You and I have seen a lot of sheep wagons over the years. Why is this one the rare snowflake that cannot be scumhunted?

and i've argued against all of them too, because they are bullshit no content wagons that do not give any information when D1 is the most fucking important.

you fucking know that so dont try and change the story in an effort to make me look scummy for pointing out how fucking dumb a no info wagon is...

why do we always have this same goddamn argument, you either never learn or you are scum because i've been right every single time.

[Ircher]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... _vs._Large

[Titus]

You and I have seen a lot of sheep wagons over the years. Why is this one the rare snowflake that cannot be scumhunted?

and i've argued against all of them too, because they are bullshit no content wagons that do not give any information when D1 is the most fucking important.

you fucking know that so dont try and change the story in an effort to make me look scummy for pointing out how fucking dumb a no info wagon is...

why do we always have this same goddamn argument, you either never learn or you are scum because i've been right every single time.

D1 wagons ALWAYS give information in hindsight, especially looking at who jumps on and why. If we know the alignments of Ircher and Cy, we can tell a lot about the Gamestate.

Second, you've been wrong from what I recall. Take a look at Amateur. He fucking scumslipped, you called it null and defended him so hard you had me convinced you had to be his partner.

Given these wagons happen all the time, maybe you need to learn how to get information from them.

[Ircher]

Spoiler: NY 195 - D1 Brawl ISO MAY 22

1. 171 -

I feel mixed here tbh. 1) I agree with Project's analysis. A wagon does not need to exist for one to set themselves up to switch. 2) What do you think my tone was at the time? 3) The quote's bolded, that argument is fair. 4) You really saw it as forced? And, how is answering questions poorly (cuz the only 1 I answered poorly I believe was the statistical one) alignment indicative? I guess that's an interpretation thing. The read seems decent & supported, so --

+3 Points

2. 509 - Comments on motive of Titus's I'll be on the biggest of XXX/YYY/ZZZ wagon -

This post looks pretty good to me. I definitely agree with the comment on Titus's motive. -

+3 Points

3. 516 -

I think Brawl is being honest and genuine here, yet at the same time, the AtE seems like an overreaction. -

+1 Point

Total Score: +7 points
Average Score: +2.33 (7 / 3)
Final Score: +2.33 (In range of -6 to 6; includes bias score of 0)

Looked better than I thought

2) At what time?
4) I don't recall you answering any questions poorly, personally, but you saying that "answering questions isnt scummy" is dumb. Of course one can give scummy answers to questions. And yes, I did and still do see the interactions between you/shotty as weird. I also see the shotty/titus and titus/you interactions as weird.

2) Post 171
4) Thats what you commented on in that post. I guess you're right about answering CAN be scummy depending on the content, so answering questions well isn't scummy.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

maybe you need to learn how to get information from them.

maybe.

doesn't make my assessment "suspicious" though, which was a silly thing to say.

[cytheflyguy]

Soooooo tomorrow I will have better connection to the internet. I see that I am causing contoversy MUHAHAHAHA. Like I'm town. I do think Icher is scum and I had nothing to say to add to the conversation. I do agree that the wagon for me is kinda a cop out. Not really because it's me but because you're going for the lazy people and not the people who really are scum like.

[Ircher]

Spoiler: NY 195 - D1 Cythefly ISO MAY 22

1. 323 - At page 11, and says will finish up -

You are to page 11 and have zero thoughts? Seriously? Lazy and scum-motivated. -

-3 Points

2. 366 - 4 hours later; "I have read nothing and everything at the same time. Ircher seems most scum atm so I'll go with him for now" -

This is just plain awful! At least everyone else gave AT LEAST ONE reason (even if not good imo) to vote me. Also, how do you read everything & nothing at the same time? If you're town, stop being super lazy. If you are scum, stop being lazy. That was like the most lazy, scum-motivated thing you could at the time. -

-5 Points

3. 422 - Another post; literally says that this is his first macro game and so he'll just be a potato and watch the votes. Also, the AtE of lynch me, I'll be useful later -

Why not be useful right now. Like, explain your read on me (and the rest of the game) rather than just prod-dodge and take a super lazy, inactive role. This is also scum-motivated. -

-5 Points

4. 425 -

This is as bad as the previous ones..... Ugh...... -

-4 Points

Zero town motivation in those posts and like 95% scum motivation to make such posts.

Total Score: -17 points
Average Score: -4.25 (17 / 4)
Final Score: -5.25 (In range of -6 to 6; includes bias score of -1)

Pedit: Doing absolutely nothing & making "Ill help tomorrow" posts is scum-motivated cuz scum dont want to scumhunt cuz they cant.

[Ircher]

Activity isn't alignment-indicative, but active lurking is, and that's what you are doing.

[Ircher]

Drmy, what were you referncing with your first post?

Vote Ircher

For posts 11 and 12. I've never liked it when people stress that votes on them are RVS. And the post before it feels nervous about being voted while trying not to convey that.

Copper, which of Ircher's posts on Page 1 gave you the "sure of himself" vibe?

Ircher's OMGUS crusade against drmy is pretty bad.

I lost brain cells reading the probability discussion on Page 3.

I've got at least some level of a town read on drmy, copper, zakk, and Magna (in that order). That's as of the end of Page 3. Will say so if that changes.

Killthestory, you said you know your alignment now. What is it?

Acknowledging that an Ircher wagon exists. I'm gonna keep my vote there.

I don't think Ircher read my points against him. That or he wrongfully assumes it was RVS. I don't remember making a single RVS point in this game though.

I addressed that post in the ISO. If you are refering to a different post, then yes, I probably missed it.

[Titus]

maybe you need to learn how to get information from them.

maybe.

doesn't make my assessment "suspicious" though, which was a silly thing to say.

Yes it is. It stretches belief that seeing the same type of wagon over and over again that you would still maintain the belief that a wagon is useless because you fail to understand the reasons behind it. Second, null reading Cy is suspicious in and of itself.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

meh. if you're town, you're wrong.