New York 195: Adventure Mafia - Game over!

[Aneninen]

Anen, you sound like you want to scum read drmy but are hesitant to do so. Can you elaborate on your drmy read?

In a nutshell: the scummiest points are his 185 (those guesses made very little sense

and

he assumed a third party) and the way he misrepresented ETL (that happened many times). I'm hesitant because I saw his scumgame not so long ago and it was entirely different; he was much more "cautious" and produced much less content.

I could've just said nothing and been able to jump on them if I wanted to. I did want to potentially vote either of them down the line. I thought it read like SvS. I still think it reads like SvS. No shit I'm going to want to vote people I think could be Scum.

I've lost the thread. What felt like Scum-vs-Scum?

Cy is scum for the same reasons Copper is. Only Cy's trajectory is worse.

Has Cy had a trajectory at all?
I think again that you're wrong about Copper. What do you think of my reasoning posted at the end of my 566?

TheBrawl, 532. Let's say, that's a readlist which may be genuine. But there are things I don't get.
Are you townreading Titus because of her interactions with Shotty and Ircher?
Is Copper a townread of yours?
Also, something different. What do you think of that quickwagon happened on CyTheFlyGuy?

Its.
Fucking.
Null.

...

All it tells me, is that the people on his wagon, are a bunch of lazy motherfuckers, or scum, or both.

I wouldn't call Cy null, but that wagon was indeed scummy. But I don't think more than two scums jumped on it. Most likely, only one.

Soooooo tomorrow I will have better connection to the internet. I see that I am causing contoversy MUHAHAHAHA. Like I'm town. I do think Icher is scum and I had nothing to say to add to the conversation. I do agree that the wagon for me is kinda a cop out. Not really because it's me but because you're going for the lazy people and not the people who really are scum like.

Who's scum then?

So, I know that I haven't had much of a presence, but did we not see seth literally claim mafia goon?

I don't think he claimed, but I do think the whole post was Information instead of Analysis.
I'm glad this topic's back. Everyone seem to forget about Seth!

@Seth
I see, no I meant that as mafia you would be happy to see

my flip

so it would be doubly funny if town bought your argument that copper should be lynched for being an arrogant prick, cause you get one up over me

and

over town.

This said your statement still doesn't make sense because you can't be an SK and a mafia goon at the same time.

?

fuckin A man... i just read Seth's ISO and it just sounds like newbiespeak but it really also sounds like newbiescumslippingspeak too.

all of you are scum i swear to god

Or he's indeed scum.

Shotty seems very town to me, like his posts are completely unfiltered. Especially in RVS he seemed genuine.

269 mostly.

Killthestory is such scum, holy shit. I actually thought about this and I want to vote him over copper. Copper is still scum but some of his posts make me slightly uneasy.

I still disagree with these. What does a genuine RVS look like?
Lowell's is null.
As for Killthestory's 96/98 I don't think it's a tell. Either trolling or he indeed forgot to check his PM (or to read it thoroughly. Oh, how many times has this happened to me...)

[Expedience]

which is actually fair to assume in a large cuz otherwise it will last like 10 days; there's bound to be another killing role in the game

Why are you making the assumption that 10 days is not a normal thing for LARGE games? Assume 4-5 mafia of 21 players, so 16-17 town players. Even assuming a town lynch and a town lost each day/night, a perfect scum win only requires 6-7 game days to clear town's numbers.

So... it just sounds like you are talking out of your ass here.

Spoiler: NY 195 - D1 Cythefly ISO MAY 22

1. 323 - At page 11, and says will finish up -

You are to page 11 and have zero thoughts? Seriously? Lazy and scum-motivated. -

-3 Points

2. 366 - 4 hours later; "I have read nothing and everything at the same time. Ircher seems most scum atm so I'll go with him for now" -

This is just plain awful! At least everyone else gave AT LEAST ONE reason (even if not good imo) to vote me. Also, how do you read everything & nothing at the same time? If you're town, stop being super lazy. If you are scum, stop being lazy. That was like the most lazy, scum-motivated thing you could at the time. -

-5 Points

3. 422 - Another post; literally says that this is his first macro game and so he'll just be a potato and watch the votes. Also, the AtE of lynch me, I'll be useful later -

Why not be useful right now. Like, explain your read on me (and the rest of the game) rather than just prod-dodge and take a super lazy, inactive role. This is also scum-motivated. -

-5 Points

4. 425 -

This is as bad as the previous ones..... Ugh...... -

-4 Points

Zero town motivation in those posts and like 95% scum motivation to make such posts.

Total Score: -17 points
Average Score: -4.25 (17 / 4)
Final Score: -5.25 (In range of -6 to 6; includes bias score of -1)

Pedit: Doing absolutely nothing & making "Ill help tomorrow" posts is scum-motivated cuz scum dont want to scumhunt cuz they cant.

So, I know that I haven't had much of a presence, but did we not see seth literally claim mafia goon?

For real though, explain 174, because I actually can't parse that into anything I understand.

Copper said I will laugh hard as scum if I flip scum in my lynch, which is a contradiction, since lynching sk

as a mafia goon

early in this game is serious trouble as there will be less kills per night, giving the Town more time to correctly lynch the mafia.

upon being asked to explain "If I am scum that would be a serious problem, accidentaly lynching your own teammates or the sk, effectively reducing the kills per night in a large game will lead to your demise" he literally said he was a goon without being prompted as to his role whatsoever. Does anyone disagree with my reasoning here?

I think it makes sense actually.

Seth is saying, if was scum and copper got him lynched, Seth would be SK, and Copper would be a mafia goon. This is because he is suggesting Copper is mafia and can't tell the difference between town / sk, or just other unlogic and trying to set up some quip

[Aneninen]

Also, I doubt scum-Ircher would go on with those hard-to read ISOs after the general dislike he got from almost everyone because of them.

What do you all think of this?

[Expedience]

First two quotes are not meant to be there, Chrome is such trash.

[Expedience]

Also, I doubt scum-Ircher would go on with those hard-to read ISOs after the general dislike he got from almost everyone because of them.

What do you all think of this?

Who knows, honestly. He has no scum meta and so little self-awareness anyway.

[Expedience]

Shotty seems very town to me, like his posts are completely unfiltered. Especially in RVS he seemed genuine.

269 mostly.

Killthestory is such scum, holy shit. I actually thought about this and I want to vote him over copper. Copper is still scum but some of his posts make me slightly uneasy.

I still disagree with these. What does a genuine RVS look like?

Like putting yourself potentially at risk to move the game forward.

Lowell's is null.

To be fair maybe but I just like the MoI push.

As for Killthestory's 96/98 I don't think it's a tell. Either trolling or he indeed forgot to check his PM (or to read it thoroughly. Oh, how many times has this happened to me...)

so now i know my alignment

He must have known all along, unless Cakez somehow made him confirm the role PM in the 3 minute gap. It's more like he remembered that he couldn't lie about it because the role PM made you confirm your role.

Actually, I checked and Cakez was online at that time, so this could be real. I'll give him benefit of the doubt, it's not like it's relevant anyway.

[Aneninen]

Good.

As for Shotty, I can see your point. I can add this to the "scum-Shotty was different" doubt of mine.
As for Lowell, we need more content. Where's MagmaOfIllusion anyway?
As for KillTheStory, do you still think he's the scummiest?

Expedience looks town. He's examining things, able to change his reads whenever something new shows up and I can see a town mindset behind it.


Expedience looks town.

[copper223]

Seth is saying, if was scum and copper got him lynched, Seth would be SK, and Copper would be a mafia goon. This is because he is suggesting Copper is mafia and can't tell the difference between town / sk, or just other unlogic and trying to set up some quip

This is not the explanation Seth gave, it tells more about how you (want us to believe you) are reading the game.

What Seth said he meant is that lynching himself if he is goon or SK would be against his alignment (there is no direct mention of what he thinks of me), check for yourselves if that leap makes sense given the prior conversation, it does not to me.

I also am suspicious of the part where he says (paraphrasing): I am not like the rest that want to lynch you just because you are copper; that sentence implies he knows my alignment and is factoring it in his view of the game-state.

I don't have the same conviction as either you or Aneninen on KTS but I'm definitely leaning more scum than town on him, the interesting part is if I am interpreting things differently from Anen or if he filtered in a buddy read in what otherwise seems like a good list, at the moment I think the former is more likely.

[Desmond_13]

Also, Egg - I don't particularly find the peacemaker routine a town-thing generally.

I agree with this. Egg's playing peacemaker is making it difficult to shore up reads.

I also don't like Egg agreeing with me a lot but then saying that a townread on me cannot be trusted. Egg is appealing to everyone but Ircher here.

I am behind this as well, and finally caught up. Ircher doesn't read right to me but Egg is overly agreeable. That is usually a nice tell to being scum.

[SirCakez]

Scum do not have mechanical day talk. That's as much as I'll say on that.

SethYazura and Killthestory have been prodded.

[Aneninen]

What Seth said he meant is that lynching himself if he is goon or SK would be against his alignment (there is no direct mention of what he thinks of me), check for yourselves if that leap makes sense given the prior conversation, it does not to me.

He brought up the SK topic in the first place plus that post sounded as if he knew more about the Setup as we do. His latests weren't better either.

I am behind this as well, and finally caught up. Ircher doesn't read right to me but Egg is overly agreeable. That is usually a nice tell to being scum.

Is that all you can say?

Scum do not have mechanical day talk. That's as much as I'll say on that.

Aha!
Then I need to reconsider what ESL was saying.
Although, as I said, I don't think scum-Ircher would go on with those ISO-s.

[copper223]

I thought the same thing about "stubborn/confrontational Ircher" being a possible town tell (it often is with newer players), but from the meta available that is not the case.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Scum do not have mechanical day talk

BAM.

Titus is scum. With Ircher.

*dance*

[Ircher]

Scum do not have mechanical day talk

BAM.

Titus is scum. With Ircher.

*dance*

I dont get that conclusion.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Scum do not have mechanical day talk

BAM.

Titus is scum. With Ircher.

*dance*

I dont get that conclusion.

Then read the thread.

[SirCakez]

Votecount 1.8

The Great Barrier Reef in Australia!

Ircher (6) - TehBrawlGuy, Egg, cytheflyguy, Persivul, drmyshottyiszik, EspeciallyTheLies
cytheflyguy (5) - zakk, Titus, SethYazura, heuristically_alone, Ircher
SethYazura (3) - copper223, Nosferatu, Aneninen
Killthestory (2) - I Am Innocent, Expedience
Copper223 (1) - Killthestory
MagnaOfIllusion (1) - Lowell
TehBrawlGuy (1) - MagnaOfIllusion

Not voting (2) - Desmond_13, projectmatt

With 21 alive, it takes 11 votes to lynch someone.

(expired on 2016-06-02 14:10:00) remain until day end

MagnaOfIllusion is V/LA until May 23.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Scum do not have mechanical day talk

BAM.

Titus is scum. With Ircher.

*dance*

Been saying this

[MagnaofIllusion]

Back from V/LA,

Will be catching up in chunks since the thread developed strongly over my V/LA.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Page 13 to 16

Floating, disconnected Killthestory is scum killthestory. Posts like 380 are symptoms of that particular malady that we can cure with rope.

You are again comparing posts that are superficially similar in the wording but appear to come from completely different mindsets, 102 and 104 are players (BGT and KTS) saying idgaf about statistics, back to the real game please, Nosferatu took the time to examine what Ircher wrote and comment on his ability to do so correctly, now there are reasons why town Nos would do so as well but it is less likely compared to scum Nos doing the same thing hence the vote on him in particular.

Meh. I think you are blowing minor differences out of proportion personally.

Magna, you said you were trying to read ETL with that question. What did you decide?

I did not like the response. Overall his activity and focus on a few different topics seem Town. Yet his response was “Well, it’s a gut read and you can disagree” seems like a fall-back when I asked him to explain . I generally don’t listen strongly to opinions driven by claimed gut only reads as I don’t find them relatable. Without reasoning to analyze it’s basically “Meh, trust me” which is very antithetical to my personal Mafia philosophy. If you’ve got gut that’s fine but you have to be able to show me something that tracks from a logic standpoint if you want me to buy in. In that case the logic in his response (Pers developed as a player) went directly against his gut read.

Also don’t like 321 as ETL is conflagrating playstyle (being conservative with voting) with alignment.

(and lol. chill. no i haven't played with shitty that i can recall. and i think i'd recall.)

Ok then. Do you have any game experience with faked Dayvigs then?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Page 17 to 19

@H_alone

– I see your response to me at 403. On some level I agree but can I get your read on Brawl please?

Egg continues to be Town. 410 is a prime example. He’s casting a wide net and actively looking to solve the game.

@Ircher

– can you point me to any prior game you’ve used this point analysis system before? The only game we have in common you didn’t for obvious reasons.

the last game is a scum game.

I don't know how to feel about shotty literally not clicking on any of these links except the last one.

Interesting. I’d already stated I thought ETL’s meta read was incorrect but this puts a new spin on it.

How do you feel about ETL providing an incorrect alignment in the last game and then appending “I used the test; it applied” to support his meta read?

This reeks of coaching. I take it scum don't have daytalk, eh?

Dislike, dislike, dislike. Because in thread coaching would require there to be no Daytalk. Yet there is no way to determine whether scum have daytalk of not at this stage. I direct everyone to the wiki for Normal Standards … http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_Game

Mafia may have daytalk without an Encryptor as long as it is announced in the game's rules beforehand.

Rules don’t specify Daytalk. But there is no way right now to know if there is an Encryptor or not in the set-up. So drawing conclusions on Daytalk and linking reads to them is poor.

I don’t like this because ETL is experienced enough to easily be able to look this up without prompting. Yet he / she (yeah, no gender indication in profile … so not going to assume) is happy to just assume away. Inside info leaking out subconsciously perhaps?

Titus I suspect you and Ircher are both scum together, and of the two, you are the more dangerous. I'm happy to vote Ircher as well if it comes to that - he certainly seems like someone you've been trying to keep alive.

Oh so you’ve drawn a relation tell on Titus that hinges solely on coaching which requires Ircher to be scum. And you’d rather vote Titus as she’s “more dangerous”? I don’t recall any other Titus scum-read posts from you. Did I miss some?

[copper223]

Meh. I think you are blowing minor differences out of proportion personally.

It's possible, having reviewed Nosferatu I think it's more likely a personality trait in her case rather than something alignment indicative, but in general I still stand by the read.

The number of players that have latched onto and pressured me about it I find surprising though, there could be something there.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Page 20 to current

While I know it is a playstyle tell I like 495. I’d go so far as to say that philosophy is proper Town mindset.

Is 572 the signs of a killthestory wagon forming? Brawl’s wagon has dispersed (a little too easily for my taste) and I hate idling my vote uselessly.

VOTE: killthestory

I could've just said nothing and been able to jump on them if I wanted to. I did want to potentially vote either of them down the line. I thought it read like SvS. I still think it reads like SvS. No shit I'm going to want to vote people I think could be Scum.

Didn’t you just knock Titus in 516 as scummy for leaving her options open to jump to different lynches? Because I read this response as being exactly what you are damning Titus for.

Why do you think the early exchange is Scum versus scum? Please elaborate.

532 looks very fabricated. Scum happen to be the top wagons, Shotty and Titus whose scum reads are based on relational tells to the top wagons.

You neeed to elaborate on your scumread on me. Cuz, your explanation so far is not convincing to me nor lynchworthy.

This is the first post of Ircher’s I actually read as coming from scum.

Any explanation on this?

Not that I’m going to share at this stage. If I absolutely need to make a case on Shotty and I see scum indication from my tell-markers (and I’m not currently) I may do it. I’m not outing them now as they are them rendered useless going forward.

Killthestory (no change on him)

Explain this read in detail. Lurky, slide-by Kill is scum kill. His ISO has no depth to investigating the game-state and trying to find scum. It is pretty much 100% “Lolz U stupid for suspecting me” and even then he draws no read on Egg while doing it. How is this Town?

Do you mean meta on KillTheStory? No. His posts show genuine scumhunting plus paranoia.

Point to a single post that shows scum-hunting.

Also, Egg - I don't particularly find the peacemaker routine a town-thing generally.

1. Do you find it a scum tell?
2. Do you think Egg’s ISO is anything but Town trying to find scum?

BAM.

Titus is scum. With Ircher.

*dance*

God this is bad. I’ve already explained why.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Titus

- any ETL scum games of note I should review that you could point me to? I feel like I need to take a dive into that pool for some research.

[Killthestory]

ew

[Sekirei]

@Magna, I am not recalling ETL drawing scum in a game I am in. We had not played together for awhile. I made a reference to Street Racers London when ETL made a reference to always being right. I think it was the original Street Racers where I drew scum (as Hannibal). I will meta dive ETL.

@All, I don't think I am ever voting for Ircher despite his weird sheeping of me because a) Ircher reminds me of Borderlands Dwelee and b) I have reservations of every voter on the Ircher wagon besides Persivul that is separate from their vote on Ircher. Does that mean they're all scum? Highly unlikely but Ircher is very much a scum driven wagon.