New York 195: Adventure Mafia - Game over!

[Aneninen]

Meanwhile, stealing the pagetop with a contentless post.

[Aneninen]

I actually wanted to post a readlist too, but when I was working on it I realized that at least half of the players would be in the "conflicted" cathegory. So, if anyone's interested in my read on a certain player, ask!

I've also noticed a couple of things.

Players seem to be getting arranged into two "groups". One with Titus in the centre of it and another one, harder to define, but maybe around ETL? This gives me the feeling there may be two group factions. I mean, there's a scum in both "groups" (maybe more?), someone with relatively high content and with genius scumreads (because of hunting for the other faction). Infiltrating a towblock if one gets formed.

There are players who're interacting with very few others. There are players who are engaging everyone they can. (Some of these are hardly "engaged back".) If all the scums are not totally inexperienced players, I suppose some of them are in the first group (minimal interactions), but definitely not all. (If there are multiple scum factions, at least 1–1 scums are among those minimally-interactive players.) And of course, there are a couple of players with little-to-no content we know nothing about yet.

Maybe these things are behind those "conflicted" reads.

[Aneninen]

Some fluffy fan-art. Don't get offended.

Readlist in Malkavian Style.

Heuristic Alone

– Were he alone, this'd be the game with the least pages ever.

Illusion Magnet

– Why don't you answer my questions? Why don't you answer my questions? Why don't you, oh, bother.

Persivul

– Either he's looking for the Holy Grail or he wants to wash the dishes. We should keep him and at the end of the party I might help. Washing the dishes is fun.

Nosferatu

– Nomen est omen, I know he's here in the shadows somewhere. I wonder what will happen if he jumps in front. If. A short word with a long meaning.

Experi-dance

– His moves tell us everything. We can believe him and hope that the hand behind his body is only the part of the coreography and it doesn't hold, let's say, a gun.

Shotty

– He's waiting at the bus stop for the vehicle that never comes. How sad.

Projector Stalemate

– Oh, those good old machines from my childhood. We used to watch those slideshow fairy-tales, you know, but every now and then we needed to stop to wait until the projector gets cooled down. Do you know what does that mean?

Zakk McCracken

– The master chef of the party! A pity that he's so lazy that he wants to make scrambled eggs in the microwave. Isn't it- BAAAAAAAOM! Oh damn.

I Am Innocent

– Most Jarre songs have more texts than he does. Need I say more?

Ircher

– He's walking on his own way no matter what happens. He doesn't seem to be worried about the penguins getting thrown at him.

Dale Cooper 223

– He has a little clockwork turtle in his suitcase. Sometimes he puts it on the table and we get happy.

Egg

– He knows how dangerous sitting on the fence for an egg could be. That'swhy he's useful. And I'm not hungry anyway.

Seth Yakuza

– Stupid autocorrect! He wanted to say "plant some tress" instead of "bomb the city". We're so insensitive.

KillTheLorry

– I'm not telling anything until you start townreading me.

Cy, The Sly Try

– He's definitely at the wrong place and wrong time. Either now or when he got his Role PM.

Ain'tneninen

– He's moving his ass so fast that he'll be able to solve the game. Two days after it has ended.

Desmond and Mollie

– He may have a barrow in the marketplace, but he doesn't have a day-off. That'swhy he's never here.

Lowell

– Bring some mushrooms from that forest, will you? Thanks!

Titus

– A lovely slot-machine. You insert the dime and get three lemons back.

TheGrowlGuy

– He's just as picky as for a possible lynch as a crow on the field full of crops and worms.

EspeciallyTheHairdesign

– I know, Titus is scum with everyone! And now, give me a leek to spin, thank you and welcome!

[drmyshottyizsik]

Hey anen I have my own car it's just no one wants to get in!(I don't use public transportation). also it is how certian titus seems of ircher being town.

[I Am Innocent]

I Am Innocent has been prodded.

Sorry real life stuff. I know I'm running out of prods.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Ircher

– this is right up front in case you missed it – have you ever used this point system in the past? If so please send me a link. If not can you explain where you saw it in action, what results you saw it yield and why you chose it this game?

Her reason for scumreading TBG no longer was valid. She was voting Ircher without a scumread on him. She accused me of being scum, with her townread, solely bc I defended him. You also highlighted inconsistencies with her votes. They make zero sense throughout the game.

Everyone should read this carefully - it is a tidy little summary for why ETL is solidly scummy.

Erm... you seem to know a lot about ETL. Yet you had no information that ETL's a woman.

I know ETL exactly from this thread. I know she has a fairly high opinion of her own play level (236). I know she’s claimed over 70 games here on MS and her join date indicates seasoned player.

Is this just IIoA from you?

Hell your whole series of catch-up posts from 822 to 827 looks like a giant case of IIoA. You quote tons of things, make some side comments that may or may not indicate you think said quotes are scummy, and your summary names not a single Town or Scum read. Just some song and dance about “being conflicted”.

Folllowed by a stupid HAHA post. Which I find interesting given questioned Seth about roleplaying when you went out of your way to do that as well instead of actually advancing the game.

Scummy as hell.

[Persivul]

You should totally vote TBG then. Let's give scum a shit sand which.

When you posted this, did you think you had presented sufficient evidence for people to vote TBG, or were you just hoping for blind followers?

[Titus]

Could see Copper as scum, tries not to combat anyone, instead chooses to want to gain their support and is running for towncred really hard. Buddies up a lot with TBG a lot too

Brawl defends Copper as well, very notable, pushes BOTH Ircher and Shotty when their whole argument thing read like TvT, not SvS. Reads Titus as scum, wrong, reads Cy as scum, got newbtown vibes from them, otherwise reads are pretty ass. Could see as scum, too

You should totally vote TBG then. Let's give scum a shit sand which.

There's your context. I do believe enough has been presented. KTS and I shared a scumread, so we voted together.

You're starting towards pigeon poop Persivul. You're reminding me of the Blitz game we plays together.

[SirCakez]

Desmond_13 and Nosferatu have been prodded.

[Aneninen]

Is this just IIoA from you?

Whut?
Knowing ETL's gender is an IIOA?

Just some song and dance about “being conflicted”.

I know "being conflicted" is not a useful thing.
That'swhy I posted this too:

So, if anyone's interested in my read on a certain player, ask!

In other words, I don't think it would be useful to post about 7–8 reads like "He/She's scummy, because of [things] BUT [other things] make me think he/she's not scum".
Also, I posted some possible reasons for the many "being conflicted".

Folllowed by a stupid HAHA post. Which I find interesting given questioned Seth about roleplaying when you went out of your way to do that as well instead of actually advancing the game.

Where did Seth roleplay?
Yeah, stupid post from me. As if it had never happened in any game before. As if I hadn't posted a lot of other things too.

You should totally vote TBG then. Let's give scum a shit sand which.

When you posted this, did you think you had presented sufficient evidence for people to vote TBG, or were you just hoping for blind followers?

There's your context. I do believe enough has been presented. KTS and I shared a scumread, so we voted together.

Okay-looking answer.

[Persivul]

Okay-looking answer.

Is it?

If she's saying that enough evidence had been given at that point for a person to reasonably vote TBG, then she doesn't have reason to scum read ETL for voting TBG. You don't need to regurgitate everyone's previously given reasons in order to vote.

OTOH, if there wasn't enough evidence given, but rather it's just a case of both Titus and Kill having the read without having given sufficient evidence, then:
- if they don't have evidence, what is the read based on?
- if they do have sufficient evidence, why aren't they sharing it?
- this is the second instance today of Titus looking for a buddy.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Whut?
Knowing ETL's gender is an IIOA?

No your statement is IIoA. You wrote “Shouldn’t you know her gender if you have so much information about ETL” which is meant to imply it is scummy not to. Yet it is clear that ETL doesn’t have a gender option listed and long time players have in the past specifically made it a mystery (Vi the most famous example off the top of my head). And you don’t draw any actual conclusion … you just leave it hanging there. Which is IIoA to a tee – lots of words that sum up to not a bit of game-releveant content.

I know "being conflicted" is not a useful thing.
That'swhy I posted this too:

People shouldn’t have to proactively ask about reads you do have when you have the time to make that Malkavian roleplay post. Which is why I find that whole sequence scummy. 7-8 players you are conflicted on means 13 to 12 players you do have reads on. Why didn’t you post those instead?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Desmond_13 and Nosferatu have been prodded.

It's bad that I had to look at Page 1 to actually see Desmond is a player in this game.

[Titus]

Anen, can you explain your TBG read? I know you did awall but I am not following it with all the funy names and awkward speech.

[Aneninen]

The new posts have been noted.
But I need to go now and I'll be unable to post detailed things from mobile.
Later, okay?

[Titus]

Okay-looking answer.

Is it?

If she's saying that enough evidence had been given at that point for a person to reasonably vote TBG, then she doesn't have reason to scum read ETL for voting TBG. You don't need to regurgitate everyone's previously given reasons in order to vote.

OTOH, if there wasn't enough evidence given, but rather it's just a case of both Titus and Kill having the read without having given sufficient evidence, then:
- if they don't have evidence, what is the read based on?
- if they do have sufficient evidence, why aren't they sharing it?
- this is the second instance today of Titus looking for a buddy.

I quoted the evidence Kill gave. HA has given evidence. I have in my ISO. I have work so I cannot put it together immediately.

I will be putting a readwall tonight. Get wrecked.

[Persivul]

I quoted the evidence Kill gave. HA has given evidence. I have in my ISO. I have work so I cannot put it together immediately.

You don't need to repeat it, at least not for my sake. The point is: if all this evidence had come out at that point, why do you fault ETL for then voting TBG? You say it's because ETL's previous given reason of lack of content was no longer applicable. But, you're now saying that plenty of evidence is out there. It makes no sense to expect town to necessarily regurgitate the already given evidence in order to vote someone, especially someone they previously scum read and voted.

And regarding previous games, I'm trying to decide if you're acting the same as you did in our last game, in which we were scum together. I'm also trying to decide if ETL looks like she did in my last game with her, in which she was scum and I was town.

[Lowell]

I'm back, baby. From post 268, the last one I can remember:

308- copper calls out Nos' dumb post [+, hadn't thought of that]
317- matt wants my scumread on titus [I forget, but okay]
319- shotty continues hard charge on irch [-, meh, don't really see it, looks like bluster]
330- ETL disagrees, calls irch newbtown
345- titus agrees with ETL on irch
355- zakk calls seth excitednewbtown [+, agree with this entirely]
366- cy makes laziest vote ever [+, I sort of like this, shows he's carefree and doesn't care about obvvotes coming his way]
370s- cy wagon takes off [-, too easy, folks... ignore the low-hanging fruit!]
377- anen enters [+, particularly the part about shotty's weirdness was new and interesting]
393- ETL calls cy wagon lazy [+, yes, exactly!]
406- heur joins cy wagon after long rambling post [-, feels contrived]
400s- exped enters, townily
455- cy leads with 6 votes
491- pers votes irch for the contrived number system scoring [-, why now?]
493- good observation from copper on pers' post [+]
500- zakk votes titus, makes case [+, hadn't thought about this]
531- ETL calls out wagon on "null" cy [+, completely agree]
530s- Titus and ETL argue about cy wagon
5xx- nos says "um, but really, didn't seth claim scum?" [+, I don't agree, but this post looks town]
596- magna returns, votes killthestory [+, new content, this is good and what the game needed]
620, heur votes cy, then asks someone else to explain why [-, opportunistic]
662- seth explains what's wrong with cy wagon [+, very much agree]
670s- killthestory offers content [+, looks town here]


I'm buying irch, seth, and cy as newbtown. Particularly in the case of the latter two, I get a real sense of carefreeness which I like. Not everyone is the same, of course, but in my first few games as scum, I was cagey and careful as hell. I would

never

post something as votebaiting as "LOL haven't really read, whatever, VOTE X." seth's weird doubling down on the SK thing, while still confusing, also reads town to me. And Irch has had 30 pages to completely crumble, shotty has been on him from minute one, and hasn't, really. I also don't see what he has to gain by being so prolific a poster as scum, particularly since every time he posts he gets hammered by half a dozen players.

I'm also getting townvibes from exped, ETL, zakk, and egg. They've all been active, in a good way, and in a tone that strikes me as town. copper and matt are probably town.

VOTE: heur If I were forced to describe "lurking in plain sight," I would just cut and paste this guy's iso. He lazily joined the cy wagon (twice?), has offered nothing, and hasn't really made a case on anyone.

fos pers

I've come full circle on him. He now looks quiet and opportunistic, compared to what I was seeing early. In fact, he reads like scum who through good fortune earned some townpoints early and has been trying to coast on it ever since. I've seen pers do more than this, and given that this is a pretty dynamic game with lots of lolcharacters, I'm suspicious why I haven't seen it here.

fos TehBrawlGuy

This reads like newbscum to me. The difference between he and cy or seth is that he's being careful, and they're not. I dislike careful.

fos shotty

I don't know what to make of him. On the one hand, he's been tunnelling like crazy. In ISO, it's clear that ircher is the

only

person shotty thinks about at all. There's a case to be made here that he's tunnelling aggressively and trying to look active and combative while really causing offense to no one but ircher. On the other hand... I've definitely done this. Got a read in my head early, confbiased the shit out of it, and just lazily followed it down the river until the target, or I, am dead. Not necessarily alignment indicative.

Good to be back. Four days without internet is basically the world collapsing around me.

[Aneninen]

Still mobile. But I'm waiting at work for a short while.
So.
You know, for me fluffing is fast and nobrainer but posting reasons, quotes etc. Requires more time and effort.

Here is the quicklist.

Town. Persivul, Expedience, Ircher, Copper, Egg, ?Cy

Conflicted. Magma, Shotty, Matt, Killthestory, Titus, Brawl, ?ETL

Scum. Seth, Zakk, Heuristic

And there are nullcontents.

Ask and I'll answer as I have time later. Havent read Lowell's yet.

[Lowell]

Other players I haven't mentioned:

MagnaofIllusion: had a scumread here, which was only reinforced when, after I called him on it, he seemingly disappeared. However that seems to have been a coincidence, and I liked the way he jumped back in with some new ideas.
Nosferatu*: getting a townvibe here, more or less entirely from that "um, wait, didn't seth claim scum" post. but I'm done trying to sort nos
I Am Innocent**: who?
Killthestory*: strong town lean. I feel his entry has been good, if late.
Aneninen: neutral. I very much want him to be town, but i have the nagging feeling he's a little

too

polished in his reads
Desmond_13*: who?
Titus: slight scumlean. I'm seeing, a bit, the coaching allegation between her and irch. and she's done a few opportunistic things. But also she's been basically active and productive, so meh.

[Titus]

@Lowell, Why not join the TBG wagon? It's larger. I mostly disagree with your HA read.

@Pers, Why should I suppose ETL scumreads TBG for the same reasons I do, when we rarely agree on anything? You cheered us starting to disagree but you expect groupthink there? Second, ETL usually explains her votes and here she didn't. Why should I give ETL benefit of the doubt when scumreading her?

@Anen, Please be on later. Your conclusions feel wrong (not scummy). I would like to get on the same page.

[Lowell]

@titus, I wanted to get a rival one going as well, and heur is more likely than TBG to me. But yes, push come to shove, I'll join the cool kids.

[Persivul]

fos pers I've come full circle on him. He now looks quiet and opportunistic, compared to what I was seeing early. In fact, he reads like scum who through good fortune earned some townpoints early and has been trying to coast on it ever since. I've seen pers do more than this, and given that this is a pretty dynamic game with lots of lolcharacters, I'm suspicious why I haven't seen it here.

Because it's a large, and you're comparing to minis. I find larges overwhelming. I believe this is only my second. The previous was The Dating Game. Check it and you'll see I wasn't very active until the numbers had reduced.

[Titus]

Lowell - Borrowed this from the readwallI started earlier.
heuristically_alone - Lean town. His 76 highlights a logical fallacy and he does this consistently throughout when he thinks he sees them. 400 is good posting as well. 401 Disagree that Shotty is town but I like the attempts to town clear based on play. This becomes much weaker if Shotty is scum though. 402 Slotting someone in as town because agreement = likely noob town.406 is where I have concerns. He's townreading ETL for agreeing yet Zakk and I should be null reads when we agree with him? What? Where'd his position suddenly change

HA, when you read this, I would like your reads until this point.

Conclusion: Lean town, with reservations

[drmyshottyizsik]

lowell

i said I had other reads. and yes I may be guilty of tunneling. I'll get back to ircher but right now I really want.pressure on titus