New York 195: Adventure Mafia - Game over!

[Ircher]

I prob wont have a readslist anytime soon...

I might could wing it....

[Titus]

You should sing it.

[Ircher]

Nah.

I haven't used my colored readslist in a while.

[Titus]

Make it for me? *bats eyelashes* Mine will be done in a few and we can post at the same time ish.

[Titus]

heuristically_alone - Lean town. His 76 highlights a logical fallacy and he does this consistently throughout when he thinks he sees them. 400 is good posting as well. 401 Disagree that Shotty is town but I like the attempts to town clear based on play. This becomes much weaker if Shotty is scum though. 402 Slotting someone in as town because agreement = likely noob town.406 is where I have concerns. He's townreading ETL for agreeing yet Zakk and I should be null reads when we agree with him? What? Where'd his position suddenly change

HA, when you read this, I would like your reads until this point.

Conclusion: Lean town, with reservations

MagnaofIllusion - Obvious town, will case if necessary.
Persivul - Scum. His Magna comments are just trying to hop on a cool wagon. Threatening people with lynches if they don't answer questions is town as fuck. His offhand comment in 491 doesn't sit well with me. Who wants two vocal women tearing at each other? Why did he use the word alliance? Persivul's vote also gives Ircher wagon against Cytheflyguy. Persivul and ETL have pushed the myth that a wagon on Cy gives us nothing. 732 Persivul continues being up ETL's ass. He throws ETL one question in 750 and defends her in the very next post. In post 792 he clearly takes my post about having stale reads out of context (I was calling ETL's read stale). Quite a few of his posts are like that. He's deliberately interfering with my questioning on ETL, and chainsawing TBG while townreading neither of them.

This matches his scum meta. When I caught Oceanwind scum in a Blitz game, he tunneled the living fuck out of me, along with the rest of his team.

Nosferatu - lean town. I disagree with Nos on Cy scumclaiming, but only through my own experience. I see where he gets it from. I like 444. I highly think Shotty just selectively responded rather than clicking on just a solitary link. I would like to hear more from Nos.

Expedience - I agree with 415 and 421 regarding scum Copper. 423 is drawing content from Cy, which is good to do. Even if you think a scum has scum claimed, talking forms associative reads. If wrong, he'll leave reads to listen to. 432 I am not sure what is going on there. I 100% agree with Magna. The reads here are off, and I want to solve what happened here, since Exp is pretty townie at this point.

Skipping a few posts. I like 570, as it's common sense. Along with the dialogue that follows. 572 is just wrong on KTS. Get your filler garbage out of the thread is a town sentiment. 573 I didn't think Zakk was scum at the time, but recent exchanges have made me open to Zakk scum. (If Zakk is scum, ETL town.) 654 I agree with this conclusion too. Ircher plus Shotty is crap. 658 is a good push on projectmatt (as in townie, not good accurate). I disagree with it but Expedience is trying to solve why the KTS wagon won't pick up steam.

drmyshottyizsik - Scum. 15 disrupts Ircher from saying thing plainly. Not a fan. That alone could be playstyle as I would be annoyed with people interfering with my questions too. 20 he's already trying to link people. Uhh.. Creepy. 22 Making a big show of day vigging, which is fake and old as shit and linking people from it. Just no. 28 is classic, why me fry me. 34 says Zakk/Shotty cannot be buddies because "too obvious". Why not, because Zakk is town or Self defense or highlighting Ircher scum? Could be playstyle but awkward here. He projects onto Ircher later, not when the sarcasm would make sense in the conversation.

51 - Shotty defends his win rate. Implication: I am too good at scum to be suspected this early.

Skipping posts... 185 Shotty tries to put me, Ircher and Copper all in the same scumteam. That makes zero sense. Scumbuddies don't interact the way Ircher + Copper did. copper definitely removes his vote from Ircher if they are buddies there, as I gave him an out to do so. This reads more like a blatant chainsaw of Copper than it does a town wanting anything coherent. A townie likely says something like, they aren't likely scum together but I scumread all of them individually. Except he cannot do that because his read was a farce to begin with. His hunting of 3rd party is also bad. (note:ETL also scumread Shotty.)

Shotty's push on ETL "not giving reasons" is bad since she had given reasons at the time.

266 it was a joke has to be my favorite scum defense ever.

291 looks like bullshit. You don't avoid sorting people out of fear of tunnels. You avoid due to bring perceived as scummy, like ETL said.

302 Just where were you scumhunting? Fake day vigs are noise machines.

498 Weak on Ircher. Only scum would post numbers. No. Plotinus does numbers and plus minus all the time.

784 attacks me for townreading Ircher. He implies that I know Ircher is town BC scum. Yet, the Ircher wagon died and he needs a new place to go. He was railing that Copper/Ircher/Me was a team. Yet, he abandons Ircher bring scum with the wagon dying.

P.s. On triple teams being called by scum, you can bet one is a buddy. Copper/Shotty evidence.

849 Shotty has other reads? Really? Most of the game isn't even mentioned in his ISO.

projectmatt - weak town. I think his posts are town indicative. He's pushing people to take stances, and pressuring his reads, regardless of popularity. He's a weaker read because he's not as vocal and the reasoning for his reads falls a little flat.

zakk - Weak lean scum. I had him as lean town, but latter interactions changed that. He says he likes TBG because they agree on stuff, yet I cannot find where. His read on ETL suddenly changed from obvtown to scum. 502 is wtf inducing. Lean scum. If I am right on TBG and ETL is town, turbo lynch Zakk.

I Am Innocent - Very weak town. The vote on someone, because he knows why, indicates a personsl history that I doubt IaI triggers as scum. There's not enough here to get a stronger read than that.

Ircher - Been there. Discussed that.

copper223 - Scum. Shit trajectory. No pushes after RVS/early game. The vote rationale in 169 is garbage. Then he votes Seth over semantics.

Egg - I like everything he's done but for the peacemaker bit and the can't trust his read on me. I really like 410 and 511.

SethYazura - Newbtown on the forum. I don't think he has much experience with long form mafia. Such errors like that get pounced on by people frequently. I see him scumhunting, and being brazenly unaware that speculating about multiball is still regarded as suspicious in these parts.

killthestory - Town. The posts like 109 that want garbage out of the thread feel townie. Given the noise put forth by scum, KTS trolling about being townread makes sense.

cytheflyguy - town by wagon composition. Policy lynch by play. No one on the Cy wagon was particularly pressured for voting him. So that strongly suggests scum are avoiding the wagon and wanting town to do this lynch.

Aneninen - weak town. His play reminds me of Open 627. Yet his reads need a major overhaul.
Desmond_13 - who?

Lowell - Strong town. I like the effort he put back in his catchup. I see all those shiny scumreads as FoSes though and voting town. It breaks my heart.

Titus - Fedora and Trenchcoat are so town.

TehBrawlGuy - Scum.TBG did nothing but pick favorites until his readwall. He vote parked Ircher since RVS. Only getting off onto a townie imo. He also says he likes thought pattern and tone but never really says why. The things he does explain why on are largely semantic. Not addressing the pressure on him or pushing his reads is just bad.

EspeciallyTheLies - Null due to lack of being able to get in her head. I would lynch but not my favorite. Her positions make no sense but she has similar reads to me, which is a hallmark of our blitz game together. Also, Zakk's push for her seems to break from reality, hard. Needs vodka.

Conclusion: Pers, Copper, TBG, Zakk as scum.
Rest as lean town or null or needs vodka.

[Titus]

Forgot Shotty in my conclusion there. Lol.

[Titus]

To be clear, "needs vodka" means slowing my brain down to reflect on ETL is needed. For now.

@ETL

[projectmatt]

Massive post coming tomorrow. I promise!

[drmyshottyizsik]

@Zakk, I can be pretty dominant regardless of alignment. Dominance just indicates I have something I want to push. While it may be a towntell for most, it probably isn't for me. (See Newbie 1388 for scum dominance). There's more recent examples but if you want to see scum personality, go to the core IMO.

My wagon is basically most of the scum from the Ircher wagon.
I'm going to have to wall Pers sooner rather than later. Bah. Pers is not scum merely for voting me. His whole interactions of hard defending ETL don't sit well with me, nor did his assertion that he didn't care what TBG flipped while doubtcasting the wagon so hard. His vote on Magna was crappy too. Basically, I cannot find anything to like on Persivul.

Why no love for TBG wagon?

The fact that these wagons aren't getting pushed very hard is indicative of the fact that there aren't many or any scum on your or ircher's wagon.

[Titus]

Nah, Ircher was tried and failed. He was pushed hard. And you aren't getting town to bite on my wagon.

You wanna step into VCs? Reading group dynamics and narratives is what I do.

You are right there are no scum on the TBG wagon.

[Egg]

Catching up. Goal is 7-10 pages then finish the rest tomorrow

Page 23:
Titus, you misunderstood my comments about not trusting a town read on you. Yeah, I'm townreading you but I'd expect to townread you when you are scum too. Or at least most of the time. So that makes it hard to be confident in townreading you. But to clarify, you've done nothing in this game that suggests to me you are scum. I'm just watching more closely because I view you as a good player.

Page 24:
Anen, I'm having trouble figuring out what your actual stance on Cy is. You called the wagon scummy, but said you didn't think it contained multiple scum. So ifit was mostly a town wagon, is your Cy read affected by the wagon at all? I'd assume no, but you seem to feel like it's more telling than anything Cy actually said. Also, to your question in 577 about whether Ircher would continue ISOs after dislike for them was expressed, remember Wake as scum in that large normal where I was SK? He avoided content to do his "focus reads" and kept right on going. I know Ircher isn't Wake, but I don't really know Ircher and at the very least it shows that it's happened before so it's probably not much of a town tell.

Desmond, when my scum reads are the ones being wagoned, yeah I'm gonna be pretty agreeable. It happens from time to time.

ETL, do you really think Titus would coach a scumbuddy, who is being wagoned, so blatantly?

Ok too tired from work last night and my kickball double header today. Putting this off another day. I suck, I know.

[Expedience]

Could see Copper as scum, tries not to combat anyone, instead chooses to want to gain their support and is running for towncred really hard. Buddies up a lot with TBG a lot too

Brawl defends Copper as well, very notable, pushes BOTH Ircher and Shotty when their whole argument thing read like TvT, not SvS. Reads Titus as scum, wrong, reads Cy as scum, got newbtown vibes from them, otherwise reads are pretty ass. Could see as scum, too

This sounds like something scum would say.

NOTICE I WON'T RESPOND TO YOU WITH CONTENT IF I'M NOT A TOWNREAD

I'm taking this as null fwiw

[Expedience]

YOU DONT UNDERSTAND ME SAYING I DONT CARE IF SETTING A TONE FOR MYSELF, A META, FOLLOWING IT, IT'S A GAME, OF COURSE I CARE, BUT I'M PLAYING THE WAY IM SUPPOSED TO WITH DECEPTION.

Projecting insecurity "but my meta is supposed to be unreadable!!" when ETL isn't even calling him scum.

[Expedience]

You posted that you didn't care about this game. I, rightly, gave you shit for it.

^ This

It means that the anger is faked in an attempt to look town.

ETL's insistence of arguing with me over the fundamentals of a game instead of just pushing my lynch indicates town mindset instead of scum

More WIFOM townreads,

titus is the only one announcing me as a townread so i have to blindly follow her to victory unless someone else townreads me

Pushing the joke too far, this wasn't even the original thing. Hiding behind what he thinks is his unreadability.

[Expedience]

I think TehBrawlGuy is town, and I don't want him lynched.

[Expedience]

Right now, Titus is attempting to move focus onto me and deliberately mislead others who might be too lazy to actually look for themselves.

You could actually show where you scumread Ircher by himself if you think my analysis is wrong.

Your view on Ircher makesno sense.

Ircher is a noob and I cannot read them well.
Ircher is newbtown as fuck.
Titus defended Ircher so they are scumbuddies.
Vote on Ircher after Egg and I highlight that there's a wagon on Ircher and your case required Ircher scum.

Then when you are pissed of at KTS, your response is to get on the wagon we are both on?

Just wtf...

Maybe they're scum together

VOTE: titus
i really don't like the way you say ircher is obv town. He is far from it, but you seem to know something I don't.

Honestly wtf is this, what does Titus seem to know that you don't?

Can you post more content, you're making me uneasy.

[Expedience]

I think you are scum with Killthestory because you feel the need to justify why you aren't voting him, discuss.

Sorry you feel that way. I have a question for you: what do you make of KilltheStory's interaction with EspeciallytheLies in the last few pages? I'm actually reading his justification for why he plays the way he does/general tone as a towntell. Why is he scum to you?

Killthestory's act is fake and scummy, I also think ETL is more town from that, still not entirely sure though.

It's null because scum can also be weird.
This (your post) is a scumtell if Ircher is town and it makes it seem like he is, townreading someone for wifom because you know they're town. Same as what Seth just did

The thing about Persivul is fucking terrible and you are scum.

Eh. I've literally townread Ircher from the very first post that I made in this game. It's not like that read is a secret. Him doing the weird points thing only adds to my townread when taken into consideration with the rest of his posting. Being weird itself is null, but taken with the context of the game, it's a townread IMO.

Anything you want

Yes, because they're both town aren't they.

Zakk and EspeciallytheLies? I'm inclined to think so![/quote]
I meant Titus and Ircher but I can see how you interpreted it like that.

You sound extremely eager to please.

[Expedience]

TBH tries to misdirect and change the wagon to heuristically_alone just right after Titus said we should gang him up.
Say no more Titus, VOTE: TehBrawlGuy.

@Seth – are you an Alt? Your statements about “new players” when your join date is this month strike me as not new-player based.

Had games of real life party mafia and 200+ games on sc2mafia before I decided to try out forum mafia.

^ probably scum

TBH tries to misdirect and change the wagon to heuristically_alone just right after Titus said we should gang him up.
Say no more Titus, VOTE: TehBrawlGuy.

@Seth – are you an Alt? Your statements about “new players” when your join date is this month strike me as not new-player based.

Had games of real life party mafia and 200+ games on sc2mafia before I decided to try out forum mafia.

Because voting on the only wagon competing with yours when you've never expressed any suspicion of me is suuuuper townie, right? Please tell me someone else sees this is shit.

^ almost surely town

[Expedience]

@Seth, what is your handle on sc2?

SilverWrath

2. 646 - Derails and defends Cythefly -

I don't like this defense, simply cuz Cythefly is just prod-dodging and/or throwing random, naked accusations at players for whatever is convenient at the time. Apathy? I would think they would help more. Newbie Town? Wouldn't be throwing naked accusations around the entire time. Apathetic Newbie Town? Possibly, but I doubt it. The defense, by association, makes you look sorta bad. -

-1 Point

[/i[/spoiler]

Sure, I won't mind if you tell me that Cy has the possibility of being scum, but Cy is a worser lynch target compared to other wagons, the reason to lynch him currently at the moment is quite lacking, we will get back to him later after we deal with more pressing matters.

This is disgusting especially in light of the earlier "cy is a newbie so not scum", he's literally lining up mislynches probably

[Expedience]

fos pers I've come full circle on him. He now looks quiet and opportunistic, compared to what I was seeing early. In fact, he reads like scum who through good fortune earned some townpoints early and has been trying to coast on it ever since. I've seen pers do more than this, and given that this is a pretty dynamic game with lots of lolcharacters, I'm suspicious why I haven't seen it here.

Because it's a large, and you're comparing to minis. I find larges overwhelming. I believe this is only my second. The previous was The Dating Game. Check it and you'll see I wasn't very active until the numbers had reduced.

Sure, larges are overwhelming, and I'll take your word on your meta. Still, when I start to receive townvibes I go guns-blazing crazy, not hide in a shell. seems a little like you're cashing out while ahead, is the point.

I see where you are coming from here but I still think Persivul is town.

I think Anen is town, maybe Copper is town, maybe. Seth is definitely scum, I really don't think 811 comes from town. And that thing that happened earlier too

i'm back


titus are you sure persivul isn't a scum lean just because he's voting you?
you seem pretty omgus-y this game, unlike what i would expect from you


not a fan of the ircher wagon at all.

not a fan of the TBG wagon at all.


ETL vs titus felt kind of contrived. they both come out looking worse to me
i don't like the nitpicky-ness, it seemed far too nitpicky on both their parts

all this battle-of-the-ego stuff is very meh, to me


titus + ircher is null
titus > copper is bad


titus is just appearing everywhere now isn't she



that's probably a towntell.

wagon on her is curious. i highly doubt titus does this as town.

not a fan of you

[Expedience]

the TBG wagon is stupid because TBG seems very town. i like that he townreads me and agrees with me, and though that's confirmation bias on my part, it's clearly correct to me. and therefore, i have no small amount of disdain for the wagon.

i highly doubt he'd suck up to me for no reason.

Is this the only reason why you're townreading TBG?

[Expedience]

killthestory, what do you think of ircher?

would you push an ETL wagon with me?

id totally push an ETL wagon

ircher is town in my b o o k o f g o d s

more like ur role pm

• drmyshottyizsik - scum. The fervor between him and titus reminds me very much of when I'm scum and want to hard distance a buddy on d1. He claims to have attacked copper, but he really never has, throwing a little bit at him in RVS and then listing him as a scum read. He talked about his incredible confidence in IrcherScum while his vote was on Titus, and he hasn't really done much other than spar with Titus and Ircher despite having 80+ posts.
  
  projectmatt - slight town. I like pretty much all of his points, and I think calling me out on what he did makes the most sense as Town; I don't see a scum motive for it.
  
  zakk - lean town. thought processes match my own and seem internally consistent
  
  Ircher - scum. Don't like his interactions with Shotty or Titus, don't like his 116, or his "remember when I flip town that Shotty and Egg were the two huge activists for the lynch." in 123 His ISO analysis is "trying to look Town by posting lots of things" imo.
  
  copper223
  Egg - town. lots of good insight, clear townie line of logic
  
  SethYazura - lean scum. awful content of nonsense poetry, doesn't really comment on anything important
  
  Killthestory slight town - gut read on tone
  
  cytheflyguy - Scum. I absolutely hate the initial votes on him. They're the most textbook easy unexplained votes I've seen in a while. I was thinking it was a Scum push on a soft target, but his recent posts are really bad for reasons previously stated, and now I'm thinking some of those initial votes were Scum overreactions to his bad entrance.
  
  Aneninen- lean town. thought processes match my own and seem internally consistent
  
  Titus - slight scum. I dislike his interactions with shotty/ircher as mentioned. Only a slight read, though, as his solo content is fine with the exception of 233
  
  EspeciallyTheLies - lean town. I don't recall what they are now, but he had some posts that I read town. I also read his tone town.

Last readwall from TBG.

ETL is town. You want to wagon ETL.
Ircher is scum. You don't like that wagon.
He said his thought processes match yours in this post, but that clearly isn't true now.
He has a scumread on me. You're hard townreading me.

So, where specifically are you agreeing with TBG lately?

Why ETL over TBG? I know ETL is a nonsensical poster, but I am much less certain on her bring scum.

TBG is trying to look for scum bussing each other for some weird yet town reason.

[Expedience]

the TBG wagon is stupid because TBG seems very town. i like that he townreads me and agrees with me, and though that's confirmation bias on my part, it's clearly correct to me. and therefore, i have no small amount of disdain for the wagon.

i highly doubt he'd suck up to me for no reason.

killthestory, what do you think of ircher?

would you push an ETL wagon with me?

id totally push an ETL wagon

ircher is town in my b o o k o f g o d s

• drmyshottyizsik - scum. The fervor between him and titus reminds me very much of when I'm scum and want to hard distance a buddy on d1. He claims to have attacked copper, but he really never has, throwing a little bit at him in RVS and then listing him as a scum read. He talked about his incredible confidence in IrcherScum while his vote was on Titus, and he hasn't really done much other than spar with Titus and Ircher despite having 80+ posts.
  
  projectmatt - slight town. I like pretty much all of his points, and I think calling me out on what he did makes the most sense as Town; I don't see a scum motive for it.
  
  zakk - lean town. thought processes match my own and seem internally consistent
  
  Ircher - scum. Don't like his interactions with Shotty or Titus, don't like his 116, or his "remember when I flip town that Shotty and Egg were the two huge activists for the lynch." in 123 His ISO analysis is "trying to look Town by posting lots of things" imo.
  
  copper223
  Egg - town. lots of good insight, clear townie line of logic
  
  SethYazura - lean scum. awful content of nonsense poetry, doesn't really comment on anything important
  
  Killthestory slight town - gut read on tone
  
  cytheflyguy - Scum. I absolutely hate the initial votes on him. They're the most textbook easy unexplained votes I've seen in a while. I was thinking it was a Scum push on a soft target, but his recent posts are really bad for reasons previously stated, and now I'm thinking some of those initial votes were Scum overreactions to his bad entrance.
  
  Aneninen- lean town. thought processes match my own and seem internally consistent
  
  Titus - slight scum. I dislike his interactions with shotty/ircher as mentioned. Only a slight read, though, as his solo content is fine with the exception of 233
  
  EspeciallyTheLies - lean town. I don't recall what they are now, but he had some posts that I read town. I also read his tone town.

Last readwall from TBG.

ETL is town. You want to wagon ETL.
Ircher is scum. You don't like that wagon.
He said his thought processes match yours in this post, but that clearly isn't true now.
He has a scumread on me. You're hard townreading me.

So, where specifically are you agreeing with TBG lately?

Why ETL over TBG? I know ETL is a nonsensical poster, but I am much less certain on her bring scum.

I think TehBrawlGuy is town because he sounds like he believes what he says, even if it might not make that much sense. Especially posts like 804 and 812.

[Persivul]

For someone who is suspicious of ETL, why did you interrupt my questioning of them?

1. Nothing prevented you from continuing your questioning. It always strikes me as disingenuous when people act as if there aren't multiple conversations going on in the thread.

2. Your line of questioning was bad and made me suspicious of you. You buddied up to ETL early, but then when she charged you with coaching, you turned on her, on a weak charge. If someone else did that, wouldn't you find it suspicious and consider pursuing it?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Good lord – Lowell posted something that actively makes me Town-read his slot (842). I think this is a first someone call Guiness! I’m not necessarily sold on all his reads but this is actual activity from a man who normally just comes in to want to “Hammer newbs”.

Anyone Town-reading Nos needs to explain to me why. Especially given the state of his ISO.

ETL seems to have disappeared from the thread since dropping the Titus vote.

I very much want to see Zakk’s response to 889 because that post was very, very informative.

If she's saying that enough evidence had been given at that point for a person to reasonably vote TBG, then she doesn't have reason to scum read ETL for voting TBG. You don't need to regurgitate everyone's previously given reasons in order to vote.

This is bad. Just terrible. Of course people can be held up to scrutiny for votes with little or no reasoning. Suggesting that a lack of reasons in ETL’s personal ISO for the Brawl vote should be excused because others have listed valid reasons doesn’t make sense.

Especially in light of the circumstances where ETL was calling Titus scum. Why would Town ETL sheep her scum read Titus’s reasoning on a player?

As for your reads.
Why is Magna and KTS town? Who the dancing little nymph is Fedora Chick? Why is Zakk and Heuristic lean town? Why is Copper still scummy? Aaaaand why is Persivul scum?

This is a whole lot of questioning of reads from someone who themselves hasn’t gone out of their way to justify theirs very much …

you demand i answer your questions but you neglect to answer mine

so answer those and here are some more.

why are you talking to me about how you are going to be able to read me later?

[b/]

does it look like i care? you should be happy that you'll have more to read, but it looks like you're trying to make me feel guilty for being a "jackrabbit on meth"

you think me pushing the ircher wagon even though he thought i was town is a null tell? really?
what did you learn from that, about him, and about me? anything?

what is your opinion on pursival? on titus? on ETL? what do you think about the relationships between them?

do you think copper or ircher is scum? if so, why? if not, why not?

Suspect that you suggest I didn’t answer your question when you then directly reference my response to your question (which I bolded for ease of reference).

If you are Town you should care if you are Town read. That’s how you prevent being mislynched and help to narrow down the pool of people who are scum. I shouldn’t have to explain this to you. This post actually reads as pretty over-wrought and not genuine. Has all the flavor of “Mock Outrage with a Side of Fate-Lite”.

I’ve already stated my opinion on ETL in thread. Scummy.
I’ve states several times I think Ircher is Town.
Copper is Leaning Scum. Very much dislike his more or less sole focus on low hanging fruit.
Pers is Solid Null at this point. He’s frankly focusing on too few players to get a good handle on him.

What are your reads on Pers, Kill and ETL?