New York 195: Adventure Mafia - Game over!

[Nahdia]

i think we should have an Ice Cream "im sorry for Space Dandy" Social because everyone on that player list including myself has something to be sorry for tbh.

except SugarJan.

[Ircher]

When I caught Oceanwind scum

Wait Oceanwind is a Pers alt?

Nosferatu - lean town. I disagree with Nos on Cy scumclaiming, but only through my own experience. I see where he gets it from. I like 444. I highly think Shotty just selectively responded rather than clicking on just a solitary link. I would like to hear more from Nos.

Please explain how that ISO is lean Town. There is very little content there. Literally my fact when I saw this was …

The fact that these wagons aren't getting pushed very hard is indicative of the fact that there aren't many or any scum on your or ircher's wagon.

Are you floating the concept that Ircher’s wagon was not being pushed very hard? The fact that it has gone away doesn’t mean it wasn’t strongly fueled.

My point is people are saying the same scum on Ircher's wagon jump over to titus. I think it is much more likely that this is town jump from scum to another scum. If it were scum jumping around the wagons would have waited for town and pushed really hard. It's not that the wagons weren't fueled strongly, it's that enough of the town had other reads and scum wasn't going to start bussing yet.

Why do you insist Titus and I are scum? Why cant it be 2 Town or 1 Town and 1 Scum? You are making no sense and continue to try to push this tunnel you've had since pre-game. Go look at it from the opp. perspective, would ya?

[Titus]

i think we should have an Ice Cream "im sorry for Space Dandy" Social because everyone on that player list including myself has something to be sorry for tbh.

except SugarJan.

I call dibs on the multi flavored ice cream because people think I go in too many directions at once.

Talk to me about TBG? Why do you think I'm wrong there?

[MagnaofIllusion]

lamers and tryhards

hi manga how r u man titus is trying to set us up i think

Fine.

Now I'm guessing you are a fine young person with your own wild ideas and dreams and safe-spaces and so such. But I spend most of my patience dealing with my own daughter on the finer points of why language and communication is important tools and don't have any to spare here in Mafia-land

ok manga do u want the cold harsh truth as to why i am scumreading u?

Not really. I’m not interested in debating you on the finer points of your read which I know from my own perspective is wrong. That’s not useful as it isn’t going to sway you just as much as you aren’t going to convince me I’m scum.

My question to you is – why out of your stated scum-reads did you vote Copper who has by my last recollection exactly zero wagon? Is it you are most passionate about him as scum? Being pragmatic Ircher would be the obvious choice if you want your vote to be more impactful at this point even if I think you are wrong about him.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Ircher

why?

Its RVS.

Why are you already defending him?

VOTE: Ircher

Sheeping too hard.

Lol.

can you pls provide at least 4 reasons why ircher is town


p-edit: welp i wonder if thats real

He is trying to comfirm ircher scum, not by ircher being scum but rather by someone else's inability to provide x reason for him being town.

@Ircher
Nice, I can already tell you are more sure of yourself compared to when we played the first time.

@dr
Increased likelyhood of getting a read compared to another random, but since Ircher's been playing a lot that's not necessarily true anymore.

And the cooper ircher buddying continues!
VOTE: ircher
I'm almost sure of this now.

What happen to general chat?

But, if you find that scummy then:

VOTE: Shotty
For being opportunistic in play and deciding that general chit-chat is scum-indicative when it clearly isnt.

you can't vote you're dead.

Seriously did anyone take my fake vig seriously? Zakk seemed to have, and kinda wanted to run with it.

@Ircher
Nice, I can already tell you are more sure of yourself compared to when we played the first time.

@dr
Increased likelyhood of getting a read compared to another random, but since Ircher's been playing a lot that's not necessarily true anymore.

And the cooper ircher buddying continues!
VOTE: ircher
I'm almost sure of this now.

What happen to general chat?

But, if you find that scummy then:

VOTE: Shotty
For being opportunistic in play and deciding that general chit-chat is scum-indicative when it clearly isnt.

you can't vote you're dead.

I'm not dead.

Spoiler: nonsense you'll be stone dead in a moment

He is beating my dead horse, this is scummy as hell.

Only 5/21 players have posted so far and we're already on page 3, almost page 4...

Unvote

I'll be back when there's something worth reading...

Providing an excuse to lurk, scummy.

PEDIT: I guess its pick on Orcher day........

scumplaining

vote: ircher

peeeeerfect example/comparison for this, which i will talk about literally as soon as i can

Scumplaining? More like conf bias.

I don't feel like Titus copper case is invalid, mayhaps I should've just said I'm not interested in it right now

JUICIER juiciness is afoot.

Backpedaling, and with an awful explination.

not buying titus' copper stuff btw

but I do
VOTE: Copper

eh

Sup.

Titus and Icher are town.

I'm going to ignore the arguments that have already taken place and vote for the actual mafia.

Vote: TehBrawlGuy

The whole statistics discussion is stupid and doesn't read natural. Feels like a poor attempt at distancing to me, as does Ircher's "go vote shotty". VOTE: Ircher

Copper case has no real merit imo. Copper had no reason to unvote/vote anyone else, but also no reason to actually believe Ircher was more likely to be scum than anyone else at the time.

Primarily because in this post, he is setting himself up to vote for both Shotty/Ircher as opposed to taking one side. It looks like he's trying really hard to agree with both players at the same time.

Also, I want to see him under pressure.

I like your style. I think you're town.

He is town reading someone for play style.... this is scum trying to do something.

i keep seeing DGB, zito, and reck, with every post he makes.

this is the biggest compliment I have ever got, I'm literally in tears

shut the fuck up shitty

I mean seriously?

i'm back


titus are you sure persivul isn't a scum lean just because he's voting you?
you seem pretty omgus-y this game, unlike what i would expect from you


not a fan of the ircher wagon at all.

not a fan of the TBG wagon at all.


ETL vs titus felt kind of contrived. they both come out looking worse to me
i don't like the nitpicky-ness, it seemed far too nitpicky on both their parts

all this battle-of-the-ego stuff is very meh, to me


titus + ircher is null
titus > copper is bad


titus is just appearing everywhere now isn't she



that's probably a towntell.

wagon on her is curious. i highly doubt titus does this as town.

So the guy trying to lynch ircher off of my fake bullshit it now against the ircher wagon as soon as it looses momentum? No way.

This case is bad and the reason is that a lot of these points could be made against you too.

1) How can you tell between faked and genuine sheeping at that point? (or exaggerated/genuine)
2) Fair, but fairly null to me. 4 reasons at that point though is asking a bit much.
3) Ok, but the fact you had to mention it 25 times could trick someone into believe it. Also, how do you know he wasn't extending the joke, and if you did know that, how is that indicative of scum?
4) Not very fair considering the time and how much he had posted so far. He wanted to let other players participate too. Plus, Zakk never lurked.
5) And how is your read on me not confirmation bias? And since when has confirmation bias been a scumtell? Town tunnel too, perhaps more so.
6) I'm not sure on this one. Perhaps valid.
7) Not valid. Knowing how to read a playstyle is important imo as it decreases errors. And you quite frankly do not have any idea of what my playstyle is.
8) Again, how is this at all indicative of alignment?
9) Opportunistic timing, but is it really all that opportunistic after all? I find it null for now.

I'm back to this:

VOTE: Shotty

[Ircher]

ok i made it to page 33 and now im lazy

VOTE: Ircher

Explanation?

[Nahdia]

Already gave one, friend.

[Ircher]

@Nahdia
What has Seth done between page 20 and page 33 to go from IDK LOL to top townread?

there is no "top". within a category there is no particular order.

his defense of cytheflyguy is what gave him townpoints tho.

Why is him saying that cyto is a newbie that is getting scumread because of it (and hence town because only newbie town is superficially scummy, newbie scum somehow is not) townie?

This ^

And yes, I did read Post 965! I want an actual answer.

[Nahdia]

lamers and tryhards

hi manga how r u man titus is trying to set us up i think

Fine.

Now I'm guessing you are a fine young person with your own wild ideas and dreams and safe-spaces and so such. But I spend most of my patience dealing with my own daughter on the finer points of why language and communication is important tools and don't have any to spare here in Mafia-land

ok manga do u want the cold harsh truth as to why i am scumreading u?

Not really. I’m not interested in debating you on the finer points of your read which I know from my own perspective is wrong. That’s not useful as it isn’t going to sway you just as much as you aren’t going to convince me I’m scum.

My question to you is – why out of your stated scum-reads did you vote Copper who has by my last recollection exactly zero wagon? Is it you are most passionate about him as scum? Being pragmatic Ircher would be the obvious choice if you want your vote to be more impactful at this point even if I think you are wrong about him.

Hahahaha ok this was p funny.

I initially voted Ircher out of my scumreads because a wagon existed. But copper is way scummier so yah

[Ircher]

also cytheflyguy was never really that scummy i was cringing super hard when everyone started wagoning him

who were you cringing at specifically?

for science.

the part where people voted him and said his posts were scummy

His posts were scummy. It wasn't til I looked at the join date before my read began to weaken there.

The posts were literally filler and jumping on the most convenient wagon (myself at the time).

[Nahdia]

@Nahdia
What has Seth done between page 20 and page 33 to go from IDK LOL to top townread?

there is no "top". within a category there is no particular order.

his defense of cytheflyguy is what gave him townpoints tho.

Why is him saying that cyto is a newbie that is getting scumread because of it (and hence town because only newbie town is superficially scummy, newbie scum somehow is not) townie?

This ^

And yes, I did read Post 965! I want an actual answer.

oh was that a legit question? Because all I saw was a contrived pile of garbage so I responded in turn

[Ircher]

ok i made it to page 33 and now im lazy

VOTE: Ircher

At least give an explanation why you voted Ircher.
Elaborate on your read list, you just categorized players into alignments without an actual analysis, even one-liners are enough.

because he's scummy.

the first 10 pages basically just screamed to me "scum that's really frustrated because they feel they're getting caught for the wrong reasons"

then he kinda chilled and i was OK with him

then he started doing this ridiculous "points" system thing with ISOs and they're about as real as a 3 dollar bill.

And the pounts system has scum motivation because?

Sure, you could argue its an attempt to avoid analyzing, but does that really seem like the most plausible explanation?

[Nahdia]

also cytheflyguy was never really that scummy i was cringing super hard when everyone started wagoning him

who were you cringing at specifically?

for science.

the part where people voted him and said his posts were scummy

His posts were scummy. It wasn't til I looked at the join date before my read began to weaken there.

The posts were literally filler and jumping on the most convenient wagon (myself at the time).

well considering you are in fact very scummy, I likely would have done the exact same thing.

[Nahdia]

Heck, I basically did.

[Ircher]

re: shotty suspecting me: no surprise there. how about you read past RVS though, you'll see i'm town pretty easily.

I agree that there's some suspicious stuff there, and particularly early. Plus, he has a different tone from our last game in which he was town. He's more measured in this game. But reviewing his ISO overall, I think it looks town. He's looking at different people, and generally the correct people. When challenged, he explains, but doesn't get defensive.

thanks for your vote of confidence. last game i was detached, busy, and didn't care too much about shit. this game i do.

I will be glad if Shotty stops reading into RVS so much and ignoring everything else.

[Titus]

also cytheflyguy was never really that scummy i was cringing super hard when everyone started wagoning him

who were you cringing at specifically?

for science.

the part where people voted him and said his posts were scummy

His posts were scummy. It wasn't til I looked at the join date before my read began to weaken there.

The posts were literally filler and jumping on the most convenient wagon (myself at the time).

well considering you are in fact very scummy, I likely would have done the exact same thing.

No Ircher hasn't been scummy at all. He's been awkwardly anti-town but not scummy. A few pokes in the right direction and his posts have been steadily improving.

[Ircher]

@Nahdia - 999

I absolutely can be. I'm working on it. I think you're wrong on Magna, but I'm not going to interfere with your process since it needs to happen, unless you ask.

It just breaks my heart when I see my townreads not coalescing on scum wagons...

Stop the AtE. I'm sure you are one of the ones who can fake it super well.

[Ircher]

Magna, what do you think of Nahdia?

I think the most polite way I can respond is to say "Not much really".

She basically posted a bunch of "Hey, here are my Ranger-lite style lists" without anything of real substance. Some of her reads I agree with. Some I think are dead wrong. But I find it hard to make much of an assessment when her response to someone asking for some depth to her reasoning is more or less "I don't have to and if you keep it up Imma gonna fight you IRL".

Plus I have like .75 games worth of experience with her that left me with little in the way of impression.

Is there some sort of rubrick key for her I should know about?

I guess meta her?

I'm not sure if its alignment indicative, but the refusal makes me lean scum.

[Ircher]

depth is for lamers

Depth is how you solve games. Lack of depth is how you get instalynched when you don't think things through completely.

[Nahdia]

yeh but im not getting lynched this game

[Ircher]

lamers and tryhards

hi manga how r u man titus is trying to set us up i think

Fine.

Now I'm guessing you are a fine young person with your own wild ideas and dreams and safe-spaces and so such. But I spend most of my patience dealing with my own daughter on the finer points of why language and communication is important tools and don't have any to spare here in Mafia-land

ok manga do u want the cold harsh truth as to why i am scumreading u?

Not really. I’m not interested in debating you on the finer points of your read which I know from my own perspective is wrong. That’s not useful as it isn’t going to sway you just as much as you aren’t going to convince me I’m scum.

My question to you is – why out of your stated scum-reads did you vote Copper who has by my last recollection exactly zero wagon? Is it you are most passionate about him as scum? Being pragmatic Ircher would be the obvious choice if you want your vote to be more impactful at this point even if I think you are wrong about him.

Hahahaha ok this was p funny.

I initially voted Ircher out of my scumreads because a wagon existed. But copper is way scummier so yah

Your play is stupid.

[Ircher]

also cytheflyguy was never really that scummy i was cringing super hard when everyone started wagoning him

who were you cringing at specifically?

for science.

the part where people voted him and said his posts were scummy

His posts were scummy. It wasn't til I looked at the join date before my read began to weaken there.

The posts were literally filler and jumping on the most convenient wagon (myself at the time).

well considering you are in fact very scummy, I likely would have done the exact same thing.

Go read his posts and tell me you think that wasn't a lazy, convenient vote.

[Titus]

@Nahdia - 999

I absolutely can be. I'm working on it. I think you're wrong on Magna, but I'm not going to interfere with your process since it needs to happen, unless you ask.

It just breaks my heart when I see my townreads not coalescing on scum wagons...

Stop the AtE. I'm sure you are one of the ones who can fake it super well.

Ircher, pro-tip. Stating emotions isn't appealing to emotions. Some players read people by their emotions as they go through a thread. Being clear about how you feel can be just important as what you feel or why you feel that way. It's not how I read people but it's a valuable tool to others.

Now, if I said "Don't lynch Ircher because every vote on Ircher makes an angel lose its wings.", that's AtE.

Seeing townreads fighting each other is immensely fucking frustrating, and it will be from here to kingdom come.

P-edit: Don't insult people's playstyles. There's no one way to play mafia.

[zakk]

I do believe you lynch shopping ETL is genuine, but I believe it is a genuine attempt to derail from TBG.

It

is

that too

Yes. The timing as much gave that away. Now, why would you pick ETL as opposed to Copper, Shotty, or Persivul? Keep in mind that directly shopping a particular wagon without voting it, doesn't exactly ring townie. Copper in particular has much wider support than ETL.

Why shouldn't I think your scumbuddies with TBG who conveniently picked the one wagon that Kill, Magna and I might have all jump to? That would explain your inconsistent reads and rationale.

town reading persivul
not scum reading shotty
copper i have never liked your push on

as i explained to magna, i'm not particularly worried about "appearing townie" (i wagoned ircher despite thinking and declaring that he was town, i pushed a "gotcha" wagon on cytheflyguy for kicks, to see who'd hop on, and it's generated a lot of reactions which i can learn a lot from later on based on flips and associatives) so why are you preaching to me that i should try to look townie. and why are you saying it like "keep in mind, this doesn't make you look townie"

this is frustrating / nigh infuriating.

also saying i'm scumbuddies with TBG is pretty insulting because either we're selling a WIFOM play really hard with this mutual buddying or we actually think each other are town.

either way it boils down to you're trying to make me look bad for disagreeing with you.

[Titus]

Now, I'm sorry you feel your links were too easy to reveal. Scum townread each other all the time. It's hard to get bus votes for that reason. That's not some "Wifom play" as you call it. That's why town have to recognize each other and fucking work together.

Also, I wasn't preaching to you that you should look townie. I was highlighting to others your confession to scummy behavior (shopping a wagon on ETL to protect TBG, despite not directly stating so at the time and now wagoning Ircher despite thinking he was town). Forcing players into confessions they don't want to make is naturally going to be frustrating.

Now, when I've got you confessing to outright trying to save TBG without directly stating so, you're claiming any suspicion on the both of you is merely wifom. Yeah, I don't think so. Cross-examination is what I do. I was never going to get you to confess to being scum. Boxing players in is a damn good start though.

I'm sorry you feel frustrated. I really do. Yet, you're going to get lynched as soon as I'm humanly capable. I just don't have as many votes/dayvigs as I need. You want to convince me you're town. Start bussing.