New York 195: Adventure Mafia - Game over!

[MagnaofIllusion]

It looks like hydraing with Fate has rubbed off his worst qualities onto Nahdia …

t's ridiculous to put yourself in a read list, so what's your motivation for doing so?

Speaking of peddling, explain to me again how I'm interacting only with LHF's and why you think that would be scummy?

Yeah it is ridiculous. Doesn’t make it scummy at all and the fact you tried to float it as such is scummy.

Are you seriously asking why I think an experienced player choosing to basically focus on a couple what I view as potentially easy lynches (Ircher due to pressure through the day and Seth based on his join date)? I mean you but up a lot of questions to people – myself, Egg, Expedience – but those questions seem to lead no-where. I don’t see any development.

Hell as far as I can see on a quick review of your ISO your reads are Ircher and Seth scum and Titus Town. Maybe Nosferatu but you stopped that early pressure and have never returned to him.

Heuristic, Seth, Zakk, Brawl, Cy, Nahdia.
As far as I remember all of these have performed at least one lazy-vote on wagons with momentum. I'm not saying all of them are essentially scum because of this or all of the wagons have been bad, but the description fits them.

So your pool of players you accuse of going after low-hanging fruit is Heur, Seth and Cy (who are low hanging fruit themselves so that accusation really doesn’t apply since it only is useful in reading well seasoned players). Hell looking at Nahdia’s join date I’d likely throw her in that pool as well.

So that leaves Zakk. His join date makes it a valid tell to use on him. Do you scum read Zakk for it then?

What do you think of TheBrawl's Multiball question?

I think given the whole conversation around my read on ETL for no looking up Normal standards that the process by which he asked the question and then looked for himself look calculated as opposed to natural.

[Nahdia]

It looks like hydraing with Fate has rubbed off his worst qualities onto Nahdia …

BaHahahahaAHAHAHA

[Titus]

Anen breaking down under my scum pressure as town. I was Burning Crystal.

[TehBrawlGuy]

@Egg, Given how I feel about Zakk, I have little desire to lynch ETL either.

As for TBG, his posts are all hollow and ignore things he should be thinking about. ETL was right. His start was all gut. He technically starts to provide reasons later but they aren't fleshed out or followed up on. His reads make zero sense whatsoever in his readwall. He was vote parked on Ircher for quite awhile. He moved to HA at the same time as the pressure and doesn't discuss his own wagon.

Right now, I want a scum lynch but I feel mostly only scum are posting.

I moved to HA with the pressure because there was a good case on him posted, which prompted me to ISO him and see that his ISO was shit. I don't go around randomly ISOing low-content players usually. Voting someone because a case was posted on them is pretty standard.

Why the hell would I comment on my own wagon? FMPoV, it's a wagon on town. I'd rather discuss wagons on potential Scum. If I get you off of me, but you just ML someone else, I don't gain anything.

Reads updates:
Nahdia's first posts were really good, but the whole trying to be cute and lack of any explanation on the switch to copper has me confused - lean town
The points made against KTS are valid and I don't read his tone the same as I used to. He reads to me as intentionally obstinate as a meta-gambit which is inherently null. (also AntiTown, but null)
No update on Heur. His posts since my vote don't have anything substantial in them to sway me one way or the other.

These look fabricated as hell –

No reason to say Nahdia’s posts were really good. Sorry, there isn’t. They are at best contentless lists with no way to discern the whys and wherefores of the read. There hasn’t been a bit of explanation in any of her posts so why only the move to Copper confused him puzzles the heck out of me.

The Kill read his is a complete no-read. He acknowledges that the thinks points made against kill are valid (and solidifies his Town read on Expedience for pushing Kill) but says that kill’s playstyle is aggressively null. If the points that kill as scum are good why is he landing on null for the Kill read. Or more precisely – why voice it at all when it is just a no-conclusion?

He’s voting Heur so how are Heur’s posts not “swaying him”? He’s already gotten a scum read as evidenced by his vote. If Heurs’ posts were not Town convincing he logically should have said something like “Heur continues to post nothing Town oriented at all so my scum read is well placed”. But instead he posts this which reads as “I’m not updating my read so I am waiting to be swayed by Heur to either Town or Scum”

I voiced my read on Kill because I had a prior Town read on him based on tone. Going from Town to Null is an important shift. The points were enough to shift me from a town read to a null read. Kill is intentionally playing hard to read, which is shitty, but as long as he's doing that I'll probably have him at solid null.

Huer's recent posts were all null. Hence, nothing in them swayed me from liking my huer vote. It is a no update in my read. I don't know why you seem to think I'm waiting to be swayed to town or scum on him - I'm pretty clearly reading him scum. I was waiting to be swayed from "likely scum" to "def scum" or "null". He's got jack all for content, so as much as I think what he has is shit and pretty scummy, my read on him is still very malleable due to the amount of content it's based on.

[copper223]

Yeah it is ridiculous. Doesn’t make it scummy at all and the fact you tried to float it as such is scummy.

Bullshit, in many cases it's scum trying to behave like town and failing, in this instance it turns out to be quirk of how Ircher plays.

Are you seriously asking why I think an experienced player choosing to basically focus on a couple what I view as potentially easy lynches (Ircher due to pressure through the day and Seth based on his join date)? I mean you but up a lot of questions to people – myself, Egg, Expedience – but those questions seem to lead no-where. I don’t see any development.

Do you think my time would be better spent going after untouchables or incredibly hard to read players? You are not going to lynch don Corleone on D1 but you might screw him if you find the weak link and that's why more of my pressure has been on newer players that I find scummy.

I haven't however touched cyto. so LHF is not the determinant, your problem here is that you are accusing me of going after LHF when some LHF are a subset of potentially scum and the intersection is the perfect place to scumhunt D1.

Really, what about me saying Egg should never be lynched cause he is obvious town seems like not a conclusion to you? I haven't explicitly said so but by the way I'm interacting with him you can also tell I think expe. is town.

Maybe Nosferatu but you stopped that early pressure and have never returned to him.

Also false, I explicitly stated that having checked Nosferatu out I think that early read does not apply to her and it's more of a personality trait, in particular the fact she checked all the links about someone else's meta in a post not addressed to her makes me think she is just thorough regardless of her alignment.

I really dislike the "incredulous" tone you are using to interact with me and the apparent conclusions you are drawing without either fact checking or asking me what I think about something before coming out and disagreeing or calling me scum for my opinions, which would at least seem more legit, this looks like a smear campaign.

[copper223]

@Ircher
Fair enough, I'll refresh my memory about our game together but once again what "hypocrisy" are you talking about?

[Ircher]

@Ircher
Fair enough, I'll refresh my memory about our game together but once again what "hypocrisy" are you talking about?

I meant about when you never moved your vote in RVS despite townreading me; I already heard your defense, and while it's a fair defense, I'm still factoring that in.

[Titus]

Ircher, can you talk to me about TBG?

[Ircher]

Basically, it boils down to interpretation. I really feel like he believes genuinely in what he says.

[Titus]

Why do you feel that? It's the exact opposite of how I feel about him. Which posts felt really genuine?

[copper223]

@Nadhia
I think you are town but you're being unreasonable, if you believe you have something on Anen that is crushing explain it to the rest of us so we can lynch him, instead of blowing raspberries.

Anen seems town to me but he did fuck me over in a horrible game by pocketing me and this could be a repeat performance.

[Ircher]

I could've just said nothing and been able to jump on them if I wanted to. I did want to potentially vote either of them down the line. I thought it read like SvS. I still think it reads like SvS. No shit I'm going to want to vote people I think could be Scum.

I've lost the thread. What felt like Scum-vs-Scum?

The initial stats discussion between Ircher and Shotty. It felt like artificial, forced conflict rather than genuine. Their interactions still feel off to me.

I am just going to be on the biggest of TBG Copper and Shotty. I like all three wagons. Normally that doesn't happen.

I dislike this a lot. Reads as Scum who wants to avoid spearheading one particular lynch to me. The townie version of this post is like "I'll support XXX, YYY, and ZZZ wagons. I think YYY wagon is the best right now though".

Are you hoping that a Titus-wagon will suddenly gain momentum?

Not particularly, no. I scumread him but he's not in my top 3, as you can see in the reads list I posted. Additionally, a lot of my read on him is relative to Ircher/Shotty. Scumflips from either of them would make me more sure on Titus, and less if they're Town. I'd rather see them die first - they're scummy on their own and help me read Titus.

I could've just said nothing and been able to jump on them if I wanted to. I did want to potentially vote either of them down the line. I thought it read like SvS. I still think it reads like SvS. No shit I'm going to want to vote people I think could be Scum.

Didn’t you just knock Titus in 516 as scummy for leaving her options open to jump to different lynches? Because I read this response as being exactly what you are damning Titus for.

Why do you think the early exchange is Scum versus scum? Please elaborate.

No, you misunderstand me. I don't think it's scummy to say "here are the three lynches I support". I think it's scummy to say "here are the three lynches I support, I'll be on whatever's biggest" rather than "here are the three lynches I support, and I currently prefer _____ Lynch". The former says to me that you don't have any actual scumreads, because if you did, one would naturally be the most appealing for some reason.

The whole "you're dead" thing and the stats discussion coming off each other are both pretty dumb, and the stats discussion comes from nowhere. It reads to me like they wanted to distance early D1, and after the daykill thing started to lose steam they had to come up with something else, and that spawned the stats argument. Go read the first 5 pages and tell me that Ircher/Shotty don't fit the description of two scum who decided on a hard distance gambit.

Also, I doubt scum-Ircher would go on with those hard-to read ISOs after the general dislike he got from almost everyone because of them.

What do you all think of this?

I disagree. I think if he had stopped after we said it wasn't going to give him townpoints, it would have been a clear indication he was only doing it for townpoints.

Like this post. Brawl seems to be able to defend himself well, and the reads he has aren't really far-fetched imo. When I factor in the possibility for biased opinions, his posts seem fine.

[copper223]

I meant about when you never moved your vote in RVS despite townreading me; I already heard your defense, and while it's a fair defense, I'm still factoring that in.

It's not a defense, it's a fact and you can check it both by looking at my online activity after my airport connection terminated (non existent) and by looking at my past games.

[Titus]

@Ircher - Let's walk this through Ircher. That post is scum posting. Scum love to hedge and hawww. Second, everyone is biased. We all have cognitive biases. The key to scumhunting from my point of view is finding out if these biases make sense and tracking a train of thought because I don't do as well with emotionally reading players.

Paragraph 1 - "Ircher or Shotty is scum. There's something "weird" between them." He's doubtcasting your slot here while leaving open a bus on Shotty. That's why these dual reads "there's something off here" without doing anything to resolve them are 100% pro scum.
Paragraph 2 - "I don't want to push Titus, but I'd gladly jump on her if she gained momentum." It's consistent. He's practically yelling at us that he'll never make a decision or push anything. He'll just have his "gut" reads and do nothing considering gut can't really be proven false unless just ridiculous to have pairings together.
Paragraph 3 - He's playing semantics here at best, but he's painting attempts at town cohesion scummy but lurking as a protown manuever.
Paragraph 4 - More doubtcasting Ircher and dismissing common sense townpoints as wifom.

If someone tells you at the outset that they have zero desire to push lynches, just sets up categories for save voting, and discourages townreads; quite often, that player is scum.

[Ircher]

Between Magna and you, and my V/LA, I guess I could compromise there.

VOTE: Brawl

[Ircher]

@Egg, Given how I feel about Zakk, I have little desire to lynch ETL either.

As for TBG, his posts are all hollow and ignore things he should be thinking about. ETL was right. His start was all gut. He technically starts to provide reasons later but they aren't fleshed out or followed up on. His reads make zero sense whatsoever in his readwall. He was vote parked on Ircher for quite awhile. He moved to HA at the same time as the pressure and doesn't discuss his own wagon.

Right now, I want a scum lynch but I feel mostly only scum are posting.

I moved to HA with the pressure because there was a good case on him posted, which prompted me to ISO him and see that his ISO was shit. I don't go around randomly ISOing low-content players usually. Voting someone because a case was posted on them is pretty standard.

Why the hell would I comment on my own wagon? FMPoV, it's a wagon on town. I'd rather discuss wagons on potential Scum. If I get you off of me, but you just ML someone else, I don't gain anything.

Reads updates:
Nahdia's first posts were really good, but the whole trying to be cute and lack of any explanation on the switch to copper has me confused - lean town
The points made against KTS are valid and I don't read his tone the same as I used to. He reads to me as intentionally obstinate as a meta-gambit which is inherently null. (also AntiTown, but null)
No update on Heur. His posts since my vote don't have anything substantial in them to sway me one way or the other.

These look fabricated as hell –

No reason to say Nahdia’s posts were really good. Sorry, there isn’t. They are at best contentless lists with no way to discern the whys and wherefores of the read. There hasn’t been a bit of explanation in any of her posts so why only the move to Copper confused him puzzles the heck out of me.

The Kill read his is a complete no-read. He acknowledges that the thinks points made against kill are valid (and solidifies his Town read on Expedience for pushing Kill) but says that kill’s playstyle is aggressively null. If the points that kill as scum are good why is he landing on null for the Kill read. Or more precisely – why voice it at all when it is just a no-conclusion?

He’s voting Heur so how are Heur’s posts not “swaying him”? He’s already gotten a scum read as evidenced by his vote. If Heurs’ posts were not Town convincing he logically should have said something like “Heur continues to post nothing Town oriented at all so my scum read is well placed”. But instead he posts this which reads as “I’m not updating my read so I am waiting to be swayed by Heur to either Town or Scum”

I voiced my read on Kill because I had a prior Town read on him based on tone. Going from Town to Null is an important shift. The points were enough to shift me from a town read to a null read. Kill is intentionally playing hard to read, which is shitty, but as long as he's doing that I'll probably have him at solid null.

Huer's recent posts were all null. Hence, nothing in them swayed me from liking my huer vote. It is a no update in my read. I don't know why you seem to think I'm waiting to be swayed to town or scum on him - I'm pretty clearly reading him scum. I was waiting to be swayed from "likely scum" to "def scum" or "null". He's got jack all for content, so as much as I think what he has is shit and pretty scummy, my read on him is still very malleable due to the amount of content it's based on.

This post also feels genuine to me fyi.

[copper223]

This is a bit of an ego post and it's hard to judge it's merit from my perspective, but if Titus, who is looking more and more town here, is right about TGB then Aneninen is also more likely to be scum and to my shame so is Egg; if this is the world we are in it suggests they may be able to communicate in some non standard way given the mod post because they'd need some read coordination to pull it off, ironically in this case part of the faction backing me up is probably the scum team, if so I hate you guys for doing this to me .

[Titus]

@Ircher, Come on answer me as to why that post "feels genuine"? Look at the motivations at the time it as posting.

To understand that post, you also have to look back at his vote on HA. As the wagon on him forms, TBG is nowhere to be seen. When he comes back, he sheeps a case saying it is good. (The case isn't good but we'll be giving that the benefit of the doubt for this argument.) He's saying he doesn't go ISOing weaker players. He's framing the argument as unreasonable rather than addressing the concerns. My concern is that his "reads" were not there and made no sense. That's precisely what he voted HA for. Yet, he doesn't actually defend or actually give any sort of read.

He then later OMGUSes Seth for sheeping a case onto his wagon when Seth was wagoned. That's exactly what TBG did. The hypocricsy there isn't genuine at all.

The latter paragraph TBG is deliberately excusing himself from ever reading Kill the story. If I felt a player was obfuscating their read deliberately, my first thought is why.

[copper223]

VOTE: TGB

[drmyshottyizsik]

Between Magna and you, and my V/LA, I guess I could compromise there.

VOTE: Brawl

Seriously as soon as I unvote you, you unvote me are you kidding me!
VOTE: ircher
I can't believe I almost let people talk me off this. Ircher needs to die. I can't think straight until then. If he isn't scum then I will never play with him again.

[Ircher]

@Titus
Maybe the problem lies in the fact I often don't fact-check posts. What I read, I generally try to take at face value.

Pedit: Suits me Shotty. I got a 5 day V/LA coming up; I cant just stay on the Shitty wagon when no one's willing to join. There's more than 1 scum fyi.

[drmyshottyizsik]

@Titus
Maybe the problem lies in the fact I often don't fact-check posts. What I read, I generally try to take at face value.

Pedit: Suits me Shotty. I got a 5 day V/LA coming up; I cant just stay on the Shitty wagon when no one's willing to join. There's more than 1 scum fyi.

How do you know that for certain? That is a very interesting choice of words.

[Ircher]

What nonsense are you implying now?

[drmyshottyizsik]

What nonsense are you implying now?

You seem to be certain of the number of scum
:p
No come on that was just a poorly timed joke.

[Ircher]

Not even funny at all.