New York 195: Adventure Mafia - Game over!

[Titus]

Wait aren't you voting Titus?

If I am it's pretty old.

You are. So why don't you vote someone you consider a good lynch?

[Persivul]

OK
VOTE: ETL

[Titus]

Yeah try again. She's not on the list.

[zakk]

Vote: ETL

Autobots, transform and roll out! Lol

[Egg]

Page 48:
Ircher, why compromise on someone you claim to be townreading over say a weaker scum read?

Copper, if the scum team had Titus, Anen, AND myself, holy shit town may as well just forfeit lol.

Page 49:
Killthestory, Titus told you who she was scumreading and asked your opinion. Your response was to scumread those people. It's more than fair to say you copied her reads.

Heur, you said Ircher looks like scum who is trying to look town but then immediately called him a town read. Can you explain this a little better?

Page 50:
Projectmatt, do you think scum is pushing Copper or do you just disagree with the points being made?

Titus, you said you want to talk when I'm done. I'm making every possible effort to finish right now so I'm all ears. I have limited availibilty (sleeping when I finish, tomorrow I'm watching my cousin in a parade, doing a family picnic, getting my snow tires off, and vehichle inspection so busy day) but I'll be checking in.

Zakk, what are your arguements against a Seth wagon?

Page 51:
Consolidating is good right now. People are saying otherwise. Those people are wrong. Brawl, I'm talking about you.

Page 52:
Brawl, so regarding Nahdia, you meant more "town" than "good"?

I'm noting Titus and killthestory being against the block idea. It's a scary idea for scum unless they can get in it. projectmatt's opposition is different because he was invited.

Anen, 554 was the post I was asking about, yes. To answer your question (although I've touched on it in this post, but you didn't know that yet when asking), I don't care for Ircher's Brawl vote. He's voting a town read because he's going V/LA before deadline. That doesn't make sense to me. And as I said, I don't want to elaborate on Nahdia but I'm definitely leaning town on her.

Copper, Titus is usually pretty engaged regardless of alignment. I saw her basically give up once after being accused of a scum slip when she wasn't a part of the team she'd supposedly slipped. She was SK though lol. That's the closest I remember seeing as far as not being engaged though and she was definitely engaged before that happened.

Page 53:
I want to add to something Titus said. ETL is V/LA and Titus pointed out that we won't get anything from ETL before deadline as a result. This obviously includes a claim. So we've got to be pretty sure she's scum if we are lynching her. I'm personally townreading her and won't be participating in that lynch.

Drmy, how are you "pretty sure" of me being scum suddenly? You haven't even brought that up until now.

Oh, ETL is coming back before deadline? Ok, forget the not being able to claim thing. I still think she's town though.

Page 54:
Yeah, like I said, not ETL. What about Seth or Heur?

[cytheflyguy]

I probably might be off for saying this as I don't have much ground for saying much lol, but for what people are saying (with her fearmongering and being a hypocrite and all). I'll try to do an ISO of her later, but until then.

VOTE: Titus

I am only semi-useless now yaaaaaaaay!

Titus is a bad lynch for today.

But, she would be an excellent choice for a cop tonight.

Why do you say that? I'm legit curious.

[cytheflyguy]

And I maybe just semi-noob, but why are people suggesting to cop read Titus? Like with killers still on the loose, how can the cop portray that Titus is either inno or scum without revealing said person is cop and eventually getting themselves killed that night (Unless it's a scum pretending to be cop, which could be possible as well).

[Expedience]

I strongly feel like Nahdia is scum.

Maybe I'll vote ETL, I'll read the ISO again because from memory there were some things that I didn't like and other things that I liked. It would be better than like, most of the other wagons probably.

[zakk]

I don't really have an argument against Seth except he's really VI and his lynch would tell us much less than ETLs from that standpoint as well as from who has posted more opinions, etc.

I'm not super against lynching him but I want a useful flip. Him flipping town won't help us, and I'm in no way convinced he'll flip scum. He's an even lazier lynch than cytheflyguy no matter how much they both seem like attractive lynches.

Meanwhile if we lynch them, we potentially lose 2-3 of our strongest players at night

[Killthestory]

no, I townread a couple you misrepping meany head

[Titus]

@Egg, Even then my "giving up" or erratic behavior was also due to some personal things as well. I don't ever give up.

Now, as for this "block" that is going on. We have not gotten a single fucking wagon going large until this point. Why do you think that is?

People should be voting on reads, not blocks.

@cytheflyguy, Having a guilty is usually a reason for people to out. For innocent results, people engage in the process of crumbing. This is where the message is sent, but in an indirect way. It's not a skill I'm great at though. If the cop ever flips (due to NK) or is pressured, they can give results at that point. This makes suggesting cop investigations not terrible.

[zakk]

Why don't you like the idea Titus?

[Expedience]

I'm going to wait to cast my vote, as I don't feel very comfortable with any of the wagons.

i didn't want you to be scum matt. but you are.

This is disgusting, just like Nahdia's post saying the same thing. Nahdia's post is more disgusting though.

She keeps talking about how wagons are bad / unjustified and saying that scum are there without singling out specific votes, which is bad

tbg is scum. lotta words with zero actual content. he never explains why he thinks what he thinks beyond "it didn't sit right with me".

VOTE: tbg

I think this vote is bad.

Actually I think ETL is scum from this. She keeps making these too-confident posts about things, like "oh sorry ur scum", and I don't think she really believes them because there is no consistency. So many people she's called scum at this point: Shotty, projectmatt, TBG, Titus.

She just picks up a strong read and runs with is really fast for a few posts before dropping it again.

An example of this is the inconsistent stance on Ircher. I think she is scum not putting in effort to ensure consistency, just making glib pushes which could sound town on surface level.

I still don't properly understand what MoI was saying before though, his posts are too thoughtful about small things.

Also, 239 reminded me of this piece of Anenien's wiki page.

I think all of the argument with Killthestory is null on either side, maybe. It could mean anything.

Three, blackmailing the players who are trying to read you by saying you refuse to participate unless they townread you is, well, fucking stupid and you need to grow the hell up.

Titus made a good question / implied point about how this means that Killthestory is town, saying that this is basically "oh why are you so shit at being town" rather than coming to the far more natural conclusion that it is a scum tactic.

Its.

Fucking.

Null.

If he flips town, it tells me fucking nothing.
If he flips scum, it tells me fucking nothing.

All it tells me, is that the people on his wagon, are a bunch of lazy motherfuckers, or scum, or both.

The cy wagon is literally the dumbest sheep bullshit I have ever seen and unless he actually gets his ass back in here and gives me a reason to give a damn about him, I'm going to continue to think that the people voting for him are, like I said, lazy as fuck or fucking scum hopping on low hanging fruit.

This feels really town, however.

After reading stuff properly I understand Titus' posts better.

On one level I feel like it should just be "obnoxious = town" though. This hasn't really been conclusive.

[zakk]

I like your post. Who do you wanna wagon then?

[Titus]

Why don't you like the idea Titus?

It's a recipe for a zero accountability deadline wagon. Plus, your block is mostly my scumreads (you included).

[zakk]

I think you're just trying to pooh pooh a good idea because you're not invited. That or you want to try to force a shitty wagon through, and your chances of that are lessened with coagulation on good wagons, even by your "scumreads"

I still don't even think you're town. Honestly I can't trust you at all after last weekend lol

[copper223]

Copper, if the scum team had Titus, Anen, AND myself, holy shit town may as well just forfeit lol.

, I think the two of us aren't that different in the way we play and I come up with this stuff more often as town.

Agreed that ETL is a terrible lynch (Perusival pushing that has lost a lot of town points), I am less certain about Seth now that my read on him includes awkward young adult that might say random stuff all the time but I'd support that over TBG, heur. I also don't like for reasons that I've already mentioned.

What do you think of Nosferatu or Magma?

@Expe.
Why are you expressing moral judgments (disgusting etc...) instead of reads this game? What's up with policy lynching Seth? None of that seems like your usual logical persona.

[Expedience]

It's just another word for scummy but it sounds more convincing.

It's not policy lynching Seth, I think he's scum. It was a feeble attempt to get more voters.

I'm still not sure to vote, but knowing who I won't vote is a start? Not really.

TehBrawlGuy (5) - Titus, MagnaOfIllusion, SethYazura, Aneninen, Ircher
Aneninen (3) - Nahdia, Lowell, projectmatt
Titus (2) - EspeciallyTheLies, cytheflyguy
SethYazura (2) - Nosferatu, Expedience
EspeciallyTheLies (2) - Persivul, zakk
heuristically_alone (1) - TehBrawlGuy
Ircher (1) - Egg
Killthestory (1) - I Am Innocent
cytheflyguy (1) - heuristically_alone
zakk (1) - Killthestory
MagnaOfIllusion (1) - copper223
Egg (1) - drmyshottyiszik

I updated the vote count, not much better. Also, wtf is shotty doing voting Egg honestly.

I feel like my vote is in the best place it can be currently, and that is upsetting.

[Aneninen]

@Anen, It might be beetle juice. That is null though. My scum pool is TBG, zakk, Shotty, Persivul and Copper. Matt is making a run for a slot though.

(The list is fixed according to a later post.)

That Beetlejuice. Null or not, we need more content from Nosferatu. I wouldn't oppose lynching him but I think there are much better ideas.

Your list.
TBG – agreed.
Zakk – don't think so, but his push on ETL is concerning.
Shotty – I'm not entirely sold on him.
Persivul – same az Zakk.
Copper – bad idea.
As for Matt, you could answer too what I asked from Nahdia in 1307. What do you think of that quote?

Yeah, my life expectancy is near zero. Scum are saying that Titus is a possible NK in the middle of the thread.

What would be the point of that? Or was that a joke?

Also it's kind of adorable that you scum read most of my top town reads
And wouldn't it be ironic if the same group decided to blockvote you

And what if your townreads are wrong?
I'm not sold on town-Titus but I don't think she'd be the best lynch. And oh wait, you told the same in your 1312...

@Anen
Please do so...

Re-checked it.
Firstly, I don't like Magna's case on you. It consists of (1) you're going after low hanging fruits and (2) you're focusing on too few players. I even pointed it out once that both of these fit many other players.
But. There's much more in his ISO about eg. Brawl, ETL, Zakk or me. If he indeed searched for "weak and lynch-able links" (you meant that, didn't you), he could have found better targets, I guess. Brawl I too find scummy and the other three names wasn't wagoned at all. (Indeed, there are votes for both ETL and me, but there weren't at the time he was pushing us.)

[copper223]

Anen, can you explain your TBG read? I know you did awall but I am not following it with all the funy names and awkward speech.

His eintritt in 102 was both lazy and terrible. His laters are a bit better, but eg. 520 is again a lazy-push. His readlist 532 may or may not be genuine. Having checked it again, however, all the scumreads are "safe". (I mean, as far as I can remember, at that time any of those reads would have gained support from others.) He performed a Regardless of Card on Ircher in 603. Another lazy vote in 804. Actually, re-ISO-ing him again I've seen worse content than I remembered.
The conflict is that he looks like an easy wagon and people who don't really agree each other jumped on it. He looks like a "safe compromize".

- 102 is TBG accusing Ircher and Shotty of bein buddies and saying Titus's case on me has no merit, what's so lazy and terrible about it?

- I see your pont about the cythefly comment, I again don't get the "safe" scum reads one though, Titus is not a safe scum read to make.

- 603 is consistent with his position in 102 that Ircher/Shotty is a thing.

- I again see your point in 804, but all of these players are objectively scummy (because they still lack experience on how to present themselves or are actually obv. scum) so it doesn't sound that crazy to me that he would take these stances.

[Aneninen]

@egg why ignore my vote?

And you still haven't explained that vote!

OK
VOTE: ETL

Vote: ETL

Autobots, transform and roll out! Lol

Nnnnnnnnnnnn.
That's both lazy and bad.

Anen, 554 was the post I was asking about, yes.

Spoiler:

(1) There's the way you answered drmy's question about you even though it was clearly meant for copper
(2) There's your misrep of drmy's comments about his 80% scum win rate.
(3) There's your stressed out reaction to the wagon as well as demanding six cases to defend against instead of scumthunting. Then when you get those cases (or at least mine) you dismiss it as bullshit and go on to act like a case was never made.
(4) There's the way you went out of your way to mention you'd only been scum twice after you implied that drmy draws scum a lot and that makes him somehow more likely to be scum.
(5) There's the way you tried to attack me for focusing on the player I'm voting (seriously, what?)
(6) There's your "Seth is SK" push (which I forgot about so maybe an Ircher/Seth team doesn't make as much sense as I'd thought) and the fact that you voted himfor it rather than anyone you thought was mafia.
(7) Your point that drmy was scum for confirmation bias was pretty bad.
(8) You OMGUS pretty badly
(9) Your ISO thing looks like busywork.

(1) Null.
(2) Those posts about different statistics were indeed bad and made me wonder at that time.
(3) I don't think asking for a case is scummy. (Remember Sharing is Caring. TexCat did the same when she had been wagoned. She was Cop.)
(4) See (2).
(5) I don't remember that.
(6) He was not the only one who interpreteted that post form Seth as an SK-claim/slip/whatever.
(7) The whole Ircher–Shotty fight is boring, I think. If you meant by conf-bias the statistics, see (2).
(8) Ircher is a kind of "reactive player". He finds players scumreading him scummy as town; I've seen it twice.
(9) Typical gameplay from town-Ircher.

(8) and (9) are the main points why I don't think Ircher's scum.

We have not gotten a single fucking wagon going large until this point. Why do you think that is?

I've been pondering about the same thing. Maybe scums have been trying to counter a wagon which could reach a lynch anytime. But none of these counters seem to have worked so far.
Most votes have been accumulated on Ircher and Cy (6–6 each). And I personally don't think either of them is scum.
TheBrawl has had 5 (and I think he's scum), Seth had had 4 (could be, but his latests made me think).
And there have been six players with 3–3 votes: Copper, Magna, KillTheStory, Heuristic, Titus, Aneninen. Some or most of these names could be those counters.

Expedience. What was the conclusion of your 1337?

(1) 102 is TBG accusing Ircher and Shotty of bein buddies and saying Titus's case on me has no merit, what's so lazy and terrible about it?
(2) I see your pont about the cythefly comment, I again don't get the "safe" scum reads one though, Titus is not a safe scum read to make.
(3) 603 is consistent with his position in 102 that Ircher/Shotty is a thing.
(4) I again see your point in 804, but all of these players are objectively scummy (because they still lack experience on how to present themselves or are actually obv. scum) so it doesn't sound that crazy to me that he would take these stances.

(1) It was his

first

post and he jumped on the leading wagon with very little reasoning.
(2) Titus was only "slight" scum. Shotty, Ircher, Cy and Seth were all real lynch-possibilities at that time. Calling any of them scum didn't "stand out" of the game. Can you follow me?
(3) It is consistent, but I meant the very last part of that post.
(4) Maybe you're right here.

[Aneninen]

By the way,

Mod!

Can't we have some extention? We've got an empty slot!

[copper223]

@Anen
I follow, I think we are coming from different perspectives because I don't have the same certainty that Ircher is town and I have to deal with OMGUR when reading him.

[Aneninen]

I see your point.
And there have been things from Ircher I really don't like. (Quick recapitulation: those posts about statistics; voting for TheBrawl because of going on V/LA later instead of voting for a scumread of him – the two most terrible.) But I remember him doing similar WTF things in both games I met him. He was town.

As for Ircher, here's another idea. Therefore, scums have

never

met him before could see him as an easy mislynch (because he's sometimes doing scummy things as town) whereas scums have

already

met him could keep away from scumreading him (because he's reactive). Even if the latter description would fit me too, we should remember this later, after he flips.

[Persivul]

Why do you say that? I'm legit curious.

She's taking a leadership role. If town - and if her reads are good - that's a good thing, so she's a bad lynch target. BUT, if she's scum, the leadership role makes her that much more dangerous, so she's a good cop target.