New York 195: Adventure Mafia - Game over!

[SirCakez]

Liger_zero replaces I am Innocent! Please welcome him.

[Lowell]

Back. Still reading through.

fos matt

not overwhelmed by projectmatt's read list in 1226. seems generic and tame, also more equivocal than I'd like. I also don't like zakk's dumbass voting block in 1275.

I'm also getting strong scumvibes from pers, who seems to show up every so often and do just enough to stay out of the limelight. I'd switch to him but it seems anen has the better chance.

titus looks more town than I remember, as does shotty. feeling very sure that cy is town.

some other things happening I'm sure. will get to them.

[Persivul]

I'm also getting strong scumvibes from pers, who seems to show up every so often and do just enough to stay out of the limelight.

First, it's odd that Mr. 23 posts would get scumvibes from Mr. 56 posts on that basis.

Second, my posts keep me in the limelight, as I've challenged both Titus and ETL. If I wanted to stay under the radar there are much better targets.

[zakk]

Titus, nope.

Drmy, zakk, and Brawl are among my strongst town reads.

Copper I lean town on.

And was Persivul the other? He's about on the same level as Copper for me.

I'd much rather lynch within Ircher/Seth/Killthestory/Huer/Lowell

I didn't have Lowell on my hit list but in checking I agree his play has been pretty textbook scummy especially for an oldbie. Pop in every once in a while, throw shade, leave.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Page 48 – 49

(this is going to take more posts than originally thought)

@Heur

– have you posted a read on Brawl? I’m catching up so I don’t want to break for an ISO so far but if you haven’t you need to make a call on Brawl’s alignment.

Why the hell would I comment on my own wagon? FMPoV, it's a wagon on town. I'd rather discuss wagons on potential Scum. If I get you off of me, but you just ML someone else, I don't gain anything.

This is posted from the perspective of someone who doesn’t think scum could be voting him. Because a significant wagon on Town just might be a solid place to look for scum. Yet he dismisses that right out of hand.

Still happy with my vote.

Bullshit, in many cases it's scum trying to behave like town and failing, in this instance it turns out to be quirk of how Ircher plays.

I’ll be waiting for the many examples from you that support your supposition.

Also – I’ll have to dig but I’m half remembering that someone else in this thread put themselves in as a Town in some sort of reads list and don’t recall you batting an eye at it. Maybe I’m mis-remembering another game. I’ll look once I am caught up this week.

Do you think my time would be better spent going after untouchables or incredibly hard to read players? You are not going to lynch don Corleone on D1 but you might screw him if you find the weak link and that's why more of my pressure has been on newer players that I find scummy.

If you are Town? Absolutely. There is no such thing as an untouchable player. You see scum you go after it regardless of reputation. You on the other hand are happy to avoid the ‘hard targets’ to instead hunt among new players who don’t have any more likelihood of drawing scum as anyone else.

And I know that the unspoken factor as to why you might go this route certainly does not apply to you.

I haven't however touched cyto. so LHF is not the determinant, your problem here is that you are accusing me of going after LHF when some LHF are a subset of potentially scum and the intersection is the perfect place to scumhunt D1.

Um whut? That you avoided one person who is low hanging fruit that means you are excused from the accusation? And your supposition that Low Hanging Fruit are a great place to scum-hunt Day 1 is bad given the realities of scum-Town make-up in games. Low Hanging Fruit are more likely to be Town as a whole than scum and are much more prone to being mislynched if Town.

I need to read over your ISO in World of Gumball to see how well it comports with this claim.

[Titus]

Titus, nope.

Drmy, zakk, and Brawl are among my strongst town reads.

Copper I lean town on.

And was Persivul the other? He's about on the same level as Copper for me.

I'd much rather lynch within Ircher/Seth/Killthestory/Huer/Lowell

Really? That's unfortunate that we cannot agree on a single scumread. Second, given the deadline, why haven't you been pushing a wagon from your scumreads? Third, all your scumreads are things suggested by my pool of scumreads. Fourth, they are all people who have annoyed others versus being scum (statistics,insults, sheepage, weaker engagement, and Internet access difficulties). Why was Lowell added?

Are you town?

[SirCakez]

heuristically_alone has requested replacement.

*sighs*

[copper223]

Um whut? That you avoided one person who is low hanging fruit that means you are excused from the accusation? And your supposition that Low Hanging Fruit are a great place to scum-hunt Day 1 is bad given the realities of scum-Town make-up in games. Low Hanging Fruit are more likely to be Town as a whole than scum and are much more prone to being mislynched if Town.

I need to read over your ISO in World of Gumball to see how well it comports with this claim.

There are 4/5 LHF's in this game and my stance on every one of them is different:

Ircher: started town, moved to meh, moved to scum, moved to meh, moved to tentatively town.

Seth: started scum, moved to most likely scum, moved to scum, moved to meh.

Cythefly: started tentative town and stayed there.

Heur: started tentative town and moved to town.

Nos: Started leaning scum, moved to null, moved to leaning town.

Given the above I find it hard to swallow that your accusation that being a LHF is a determinant for me going after a certain player comes from magma_town.

Being an LHF and being scummy is a determinant for how much pressure I will put on you, that's true and I already explained why that makes sense.

I strongly disagree that LHF is alignment indicative, if you consider anecdotal evidence proof (which is a fallacy) it is actually scum indicative in my games sample size.

If you are Town? Absolutely. There is no such thing as an untouchable player. You see scum you go after it regardless of reputation. You on the other hand are happy to avoid the ‘hard targets’ to instead hunt among new players who don’t have any more likelihood of drawing scum as anyone else.

And I know that the unspoken factor as to why you might go this route certainly does not apply to you.

How do you know what my state of mind is while doing something? That sounds like narrative peddling from scum, if you think I'm scum based on my play don't introduce elements like how happy or sad I am about doing something as those are unverifiable by definition.

The whole accusation apparatus of this part of the post is debunked by what I highlighted above (LHF not relevant for my reads).

The rest is nicely worded but and idealistic if true but not the way to go. In Shaman, a game Egg was in, Brian skies knew I was scum from the middle of D2, he wasted his time arguing with me which resulted in most of the rest of town calling it a TvT and helped me cover for my other teammate TTH (whom Brian also had a scumread on, in fact he decided I had to be her teammate because I was sabotaging his push on her, which was true). If he had gone about it in the proper order, first gain support to lynch TTH, and only then, once you have shown the rest of town that they can trust your reads tackle copper, he would have likely won the game, as is he lost despite his good reads.

I’ll be waiting for the many examples from you that support your supposition.

Also – I’ll have to dig but I’m half remembering that someone else in this thread put themselves in as a Town in some sort of reads list and don’t recall you batting an eye at it. Maybe I’m mis-remembering another game. I’ll look once I am caught up this week.

Anecdotal evidence is once again not proof (at most it may show why I may be biased and call it a tell when it may be null and in that case wgeurts did it as newbie scum in the first game he played on site, off the top of my head), given the opposition and the remarks that some players do it as a quirk I've read I may have to can the tell in the future though.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Page 50 – 52

Oh look – Brawl readily jumps at the chance to wagon anyone as an alternate to himself at 1285. Not surprising.

Off the top of my head, the read walls as she was catching up. I don't really see a scum motive for that, when she's very clearly not playing for townpoints in every other post. The fact that they hardly changed is indicative of a real reads list to me, as I think she if she were faking it, she would have been more apt to change her "reads" more.

@Projectmatt

– I’d love to hear you response to this comment. I really would.

Magna posting the Ircher wagon makes me even more sure Ircher is scum. I'm townreading the entire wagon from it's height except Cy. Cy's wagon on the other hand has Seth, heur, and Ircher as vote 3-5 at that point. Ew.

To be clear – you are Townreading both Brawl and Shotty? (or were back then?)

The fact that he decided to look up whether it's considered normal to have two scum teams shows that he doesn't have inside knowledge on whether we're dealing with that or not.

Um Egg I think you are solid Town but this is terrible, terrible logic. He can easily ‘pretend’ to be doing that as scum, especially after the mini-back and forth ETL and I had on looking up Normal standards in an attempt to mine Town cred.

What's hypocritical about #1178? It looks pretty solid to me.

I also now see your reasons for disliking #1178 after looking again, but I don't find them particularly solid.

Three whole minutes to back away from his twice strongly stated Brawl Town read. Brawl flips scum and Matt should be first up against the wall following him.

I have a town read on every player on the Aneninen wagon so if I don't come up with anything better after reviewing tomorrow this is where I'll vote.

Aneninen (3) - Nahdia, Lowell, projectmatt

So you Town read Nahdia, Lowell and Matt?

[copper223]

So you Town read Nahdia, Lowell and Matt?

Yep, they are also already in order of strength.

[Persivul]

Just read TBG's ISO. He looks pretty clean to me.

[Egg]

Titus, I was pushing Ircher. Then I switched to Seth and suggested we wagon him. So to say I haven't been pushing is weird. I get that I was in catch up mode, but I've made it very clear what I want to happen. Lowell mostly just hasn't changed my mind since he didn't answer me about his reads. He wasn't "added" so much as "left there". And yeah, I'm town. Just not in agreement with you on like any reads.

Magna, yes I've townread drmy and Brawl all game. My read on drmy has weakened somewhat and my townread on Brawl has strengthened, but they've both been town reads all game. Can you quote the back and forth between you and ETL or at least tell me where it was? I don't remember it and scum don't usually think to fake things like that. It's not like it's the basis of my read anymore or anything but it would be nice to know the full context of it if I've missed something.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

When is deadline? I may have some time tonight to go through some ISOs but not many. The rest will have to be done over the night.

I need to reset/refresh and take a better look at some people in ISO. I've caught up and tried to follow along with most of the major discussions so I think that will help.

Titus - understood on Anen's post. It stood out to me in my catch up but I suppose I can see how that would mean that, given an obvious difference in language for Anen.

UNVOTE:

[Liger_Zero]

Hello everyone, just joined the game.
Just noticed I am in a neighborhood with a few players, so thats a thing.
I guess that goes with the "Adventure" thing? Like an adventure party?

I don't know if i will honestly get to everything that has happened so far, but will try.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Page 53 – My first catch-up

I still don't properly understand what MoI was saying before though, his posts are too thoughtful about small things.

If you want clarification on something please drop a post number.

If I am it's pretty old.

So you don’t know where you vote was? And why did it take actual prompting from Titus to actually move

also anen is scum. he slipped but I'm mobile so find it yourself.

Very much interested in what ELT has found slip-wise (or thinks she has found).

Further for someone that he is investigating as scum he made quite a few inaccurate statements about what I posted (re. Nosferatu and Egg), and if he really felt genuine about the points he is making I would expect a vote on me and trying to rally support, cause I would expect that would be a strong indication of me being scum in his mind, instead as I said at the time this looks more like a smear campaign (if he is scum and I was pushing a buddy of his) or probing (if I'm on the wrong track and he thinks he might be able to lynch me after a few flips).

Do you think that you should not be able to scum-hunt multiple players at a time? You seem to be angling that if I am not voting you and shouting for your lynch over my other scum reads that it is a “smear campaign”. That makes no sense at all to suggest I can’t have a scum-read on multiple players and investigating such while keeping my vote on my strongest scum-read and that I do so I’m simply looking to “smear” you (and by inference, any player I am not currently voting who I am scum-hunting).

VOTE: egg
Pretty sre of this

@egg why ignore my vote?

Why exactly should Egg be worried about a Naked Vote from you again?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Very much interested in what ELT has found slip-wise (or thinks she has found).

Looks like you are catching up so I assume you will come across the quote I made later on, but it turned out to be a misunderstanding of language.

[Persivul]

So you don’t know where you vote was? And why did it take actual prompting from Titus to actually move

I don't know if it's larges in general or this game in particular, but no wagon has come close yet to actually putting pressure on someone, so my vote didn't concern me that much. In minis or micros I usually make sure to have it where I want it.

[Titus]

Hello everyone, just joined the game.
Just noticed I am in a neighborhood with a few players, so thats a thing.
I guess that goes with the "Adventure" thing? Like an adventure party?

I don't know if i will honestly get to everything that has happened so far, but will try.

*blinks* Whaaaaat? Don't tell me who but how many are in this hood? Depending on size, I may want to know who. What is the activity like?

Saga called Sir Cakez. Adventuring parties?

[Liger_Zero]

Hello everyone, just joined the game.
Just noticed I am in a neighborhood with a few players, so thats a thing.
I guess that goes with the "Adventure" thing? Like an adventure party?

I don't know if i will honestly get to everything that has happened so far, but will try.

*blinks* Whaaaaat? Don't tell me who but how many are in this hood? Depending on size, I may want to know who. What is the activity like?

Saga called Sir Cakez. Adventuring parties?

Theres four people in it.
And its only open at night.

I thought everyone might be in a hood for this game just by the name and how many people were in mine.
I guess not? Lol.

[Titus]

I am not in a hood. Given there's four people in it, the likelihood of scum in it is high (but not a forgone conclusion). If scum are in it, they know the names. So would you tell us who is in there?

[Liger_Zero]

I am not in a hood. Given there's four people in it, the likelihood of scum in it is high (but not a forgone conclusion). If scum are in it, they know the names. So would you tell us who is in there?

Ummm are you hunting for people to kill? I don't think so.
They can reveal themselves if they chose to.
I will converse with them at night and if I scumread them I will out them.

[Titus]

@Liger, Hardly. Knowing who is in a hood an give us valuable information. There's very little chance of 3 scum one town or all scum, so knowing who is in the neighborhood can help reset if someone has inaccurate reads. For instance, if someone scumread the entire hoid, we all would know they need a reset.

Second, the size makes it likely scum are in the hood.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I am not in a hood. Given there's four people in it, the likelihood of scum in it is high (but not a forgone conclusion). If scum are in it, they know the names. So would you tell us who is in there?

Ummm are you hunting for people to kill? I don't think so.
They can reveal themselves if they chose to.
I will converse with them at night and if I scumread them I will out them.

No, what she's saying is that based on the number of people allocated to the neighborhood, there is a very high chance at least one of the members is mafia.

1 in 4 is a lot better than ?? in 21. By giving the names, you allow us to narrow down the pool of possible suspects, which gives us a better chance of lynching correctly today.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

@mod: I do believe given the high percentage of players who were V/LA over the last week, an extension of at least 48 hours would be reasonable. Whatdya say? ♥

[Liger_Zero]

I don't really want to reveal anyone unless I scumread them.
I don't want you FoS them based on just neighborhood likelyhood? Isn't it decided by the mod beforehand?