Open 642 - The Woodshed - Game Over

[innocentvillager]

If anyone wants some incentive to hammer myshotty, if he flips town we'll still give you a chance to flail a bit D2 before we lynch you

If he flips scum, we'll autoconfirm you as town and if you're maf that's great incentive to bus

This makes no sense! If he flips scum, you're conftown? No, why would town know he was scum? It would be a coin flip, and no townie wants to take that chance. If he flips scum, the hammerer would be scum.
VOTE: innocentvillager until I understand this logic.

There is strategically ZERO incentive to quickhammer your partner if are at L-1 from an RVS wagon since obviously they're not actually going to get lynched unless some asinine townie hammers. Therefore, the person who does so would get a shitton of towncred. Autoconfirm as town was a bit of an exaggerated joke to get mafia to bus their own. True, most townies also would never baselessly quickhammer, but some might just yolo it and take the chance that they might be scum (just for the lolz, to make it more interesting, or something else; idk). The point is neither side should quickhammer since it strategically is bad for their own side, but for mafia, hammering your own partner on an RVS wagon is so harmful to your own alignment that you would have to be basically autoconfirmed town.

**Also, I would like everyone to carefully think about Kappy's post and give your thoughts, since I think this is a pretty alignment-indicative post from him. My gut strongly tells me this is from a genuine confused townie, and I'll explain why. I highly doubt Kappy would be this confused if he had thought about this from a scum point of view. If he had considered that, as scum, hammering your own would be a ridiculously pro-town, he would see that scum could do this to get towncred. But he goes headstrong for the completely opposite viewpoint, noting that it would be asinine for a townie to hammer, regardless of the flip, and therefore just use the logic "if a townie has no strategic incentive to hammer, then only scum would do it" without realizing "if scum hammered, that would be significantly WORSE for them".

Therefore, Kappy is town if we accept that he was genuinely confused, and not fabricating this post for towncred, which I believe to be highly unlikely especially at this stage of the game.

[innocentvillager]

Wow I realized there were a lot of redundancies in that post, but I hope the meaning extra comes across and you guys can agree with me that Kappy is basically a clear (or provide a good reason why not). Hurray for some progress.

[BTD6_maker]

Now that you've said that, if scum do actually bus, they are taking a huge disadvantage now but are much less likely to face a lynch in the future because everyone thinks scum would never hammer. Hammering scum may still give towncred but you should always consider a lynch on them if necessary in the future.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Wow I realized there were a lot of redundancies in that post, but I hope the meaning extra comes across and you guys can agree with me that Kappy is basically a clear (or provide a good reason why not). Hurray for some progress.

I read it as Kappy making up a reason to move his vote to you. It neither clears him nor condemns him.

I mean your logic would work, IF someone took your post seriously. As I don't and will never believe he, or anyone, did, or that you intended anyone to, it breaks your logic.

@Everyone

if you had to pick one person as scum from the last two pages who would it be?

One of innocentvillager/BTD6_maker. But not together

[innocentvillager]

Now that you've said that, if scum do actually bus, they are taking a huge disadvantage now but are much less likely to face a lynch in the future because everyone thinks scum would never hammer. Hammering scum may still give towncred but you should always consider a lynch on them if necessary in the future.

Well, sure, but it would regardless be hella nice if scum hammered their scumbuddy right now. I'd rather get a scum down on D1 and have the remaining scum be slightly cleared versus having to take down two scum independently.

Wow I realized there were a lot of redundancies in that post, but I hope the meaning extra comes across and you guys can agree with me that Kappy is basically a clear (or provide a good reason why not). Hurray for some progress.

I read it as Kappy making up a reason to move his vote to you. It neither clears him nor condemns him.

I mean your logic would work, IF someone took your post seriously. As I don't and will never believe he, or anyone, did, or that you intended anyone to, it breaks your logic.

@Everyone

if you had to pick one person as scum from the last two pages who would it be?

One of innocentvillager/BTD6_maker. But not together

I'm not sure I understand where you're going with this post. If you're referring to my 44, yeah it obviously wasn't "serious" per se, but it still had some actual strategic basis behind it, as I explained in 50. I think one can still disagree with the logic behind a post about strategy, even if the tone is obviously joking. So, please elaborate on how it somehow "breaks my logic". Regardless of the tone of my post 44, you would still agree with me if Kappy's confusion was genuine, since it is entirely town POV focused without even the slightest consideration for scum POV. But it seems like you're convinced it was fake, because my post was obviously a joke and had zero strategic meaning behind it, so therefore the confusion was fake.

But what I don't get is how if you read that as "Kappy making up a reason to vote me" that you can still say it doesn't clear nor condemn him. If you really think he's making up a bullshit reason, how doesn't that condemn him?

VOTE: KickAssAndGiggle until I understand this discrepancy

BTD6, I haven't seen you give any reads yet or true thoughts on the game despite the fact that you have the second highest number of posts (granted, we are kind of barely out of RVS). I think we're at the point where we can talk about more than just occasionally butting in about hypothetical theory stuff. Who is scum, what do you think of the discussion on Kappy's post, etc.?

[KickAssAndGiggle]

But what I don't get is how if you read that as "Kappy making up a reason to vote me" that you can still say it doesn't clear nor condemn him. If you really think he's making up a bullshit reason, how doesn't that condemn him?

Because it's RVS?

[innocentvillager]

But what I don't get is how if you read that as "Kappy making up a reason to vote me" that you can still say it doesn't clear nor condemn him. If you really think he's making up a bullshit reason, how doesn't that condemn him?

Because it's RVS?

Are you saying Kappy's vote was completely nonserious and RVS?

[BTD6_maker]

Nulltown: Kappy, InnocentVillager
Null: Alexcellent, Smv, KickAssAndGiggle, Shotty, Alpaca
Nullscum: Music And Mail

These are incredibly weak.

VOTE: InnocentVillager

All my reads are practically null. You are a miniscule townread but I believe pressure is the key to escaping RVS. The read is too weak to matter much.

[innocentvillager]

What's the point of pressure voting me when you're telling everyone it's just a pressure vote?

[BTD6_maker]

Mainly to escape from RVS.

However, if someone else genuinely scumreads and votes you, their vote is much more dangerous for you and you will be under a lot of extra pressure because you would be at L-1 instead of L-2. If someone then gives intent to hammer, the pressure rises again.

[Kappy]

Just putting pressure on him to force him to explain himself.

[Kappy]

UNVOTE:

[innocentvillager]

Nulltown: Kappy, InnocentVillager
Null: Alexcellent, Smv, KickAssAndGiggle, Shotty, Alpaca
Nullscum: Music And Mail

These are incredibly weak.

VOTE: InnocentVillager

All my reads are practically null. You are a miniscule townread but I believe pressure is the key to escaping RVS. The read is too weak to matter much.

Mainly to escape from RVS.

However, if someone else genuinely scumreads and votes you, their vote is much more dangerous for you and you will be under a lot of extra pressure because you would be at L-1 instead of L-2. If someone then gives intent to hammer, the pressure rises again.

Lol okay sure I guess I sorta buy that.

Anyway since you're basically the only semi active player on here besides Kap atm, again, what do you think of my analysis on Kap's post?

[AlpacaAlpaca]

Honestly if a player quick hammered in RVS I would not want them around D2 and would try and lead a wagon on them for this reason. Even if the chances are much higher that they are town, which I agree with you they are, I think anyone willing to lynch someone in RVS is just playing anti-town since the chances of them hitting scum are pretty low. I wouldn't want them around later in case they pulled another stupid move that could be super anti-town, no matter what alignment the person they lynched was.

[BTD6_maker]

I mostly agree with Alpaca. Only scum know exactly who is Town or not so only they know whether quicklynching will hit scum. Thus lynching them if they hit Town is probably a good idea. If they hit scum, wait for a while but don't be afraid to lynch if necessary.

The difference is that in this game a lynched player can still participate in scum hunting almost as much as a live player. A hammer doesn't hurt Town as much in this game.

IV, your analysis did make sense somewhat. Scum hammering scum will severely lower scum's chances, provided we do not hesitate to lynch them when necessary.

[Quaroath]

Looking for an smv replacement per his request.

[Quaroath]

Vote count 1.3

BTD6_maker – (2) AlpacaAlpaca, KickAssAndGiggle
Innocentvillager – (2) drmyshottyizsik, BTD6_maker
Kappy - (1) Alexcellent
KickAssandGiggle - (1) innocentvillager

Not Voting - (3) smv, Music and Mail, Kappy

Looking for an smv replacement per his request.
With 9 eligible to vote, is takes 5 to lynch.

[Ranger]

Looking for an smv replacement per his request.

Guess who? >:D

[Kappy]

Yay. Ranger.

[Alexcellent]

**Also, I would like everyone to carefully think about Kappy's post and give your thoughts, since I think this is a pretty alignment-indicative post from him. My gut strongly tells me this is from a genuine confused townie, and I'll explain why. I highly doubt Kappy would be this confused if he had thought about this from a scum point of view. If he had considered that, as scum, hammering your own would be a ridiculously pro-town, he would see that scum could do this to get towncred. But he goes headstrong for the completely opposite viewpoint, noting that it would be asinine for a townie to hammer, regardless of the flip, and therefore just use the logic "if a townie has no strategic incentive to hammer, then only scum would do it" without realizing "if scum hammered, that would be significantly WORSE for them".

Therefore, Kappy is town if we accept that he was genuinely confused, and not fabricating this post for towncred, which I believe to be highly unlikely especially at this stage of the game.

I don't think it clears him as you say, it's not as if scum can't fabricate that sort of thing. But I do follow your thinking and I'm inclined to give him some townie points for it. UNVOTE: Kappy

@Everyone

if you had to pick one person as scum from the last two pages who would it be?

One of innocentvillager/BTD6_maker. But not together

Any reason?

[BTD6_maker]

Hi Ranger!

I've seen you as scum (granted; I was a different scum) and I will be seeing you as mod but I haven't yet seen you as town.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Guess this game needs to be shot up(get it)

Hi Ranger!

I've seen you as scum (granted; I was a different scum) and I will be seeing you as mod but I haven't yet seen you as town.

why do you even need to say this. It feels like setting up WIFOM for the future, or buddying.

Anyway since you're basically the only semi active player on here besides Kap atm, again, what do you think of my analysis on Kap's post?

why are you only concerned with people that are active? Are you scum just trying to look busy?

I read it as Kappy making up a reason to move his vote to you. It neither clears him nor condemns him.

So you took the time to clutter the game wit "hey look at that it means nothing!"? why?

[Music and Mail]

All of 71 feels pretty forced but I don't have a good grasp of shotty's town meta so idk if he's usually the kind of person to see scummy things in stuff that isn't really alignment indicative.

Also fuck yeah Ranger!

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

Just putting pressure on him to force him to explain himself.

Also also I hate this answer for some reason.

-- Mail

[BTD6_maker]

It was just an introductory post to Ranger, but I was also saying it in case I meta her.