Newbie 1714 (Game Over)

[Raskolnikov]

As soon as I'm caught up, I'll explain my reads.

And you said you would let people guess... This is quite obvious, Ranger is trying to fos me and at the same time withholding all information on why. But in the end town proved smart enough(somewhat) to not just blatantly follow his lead, so he is forced to actually come up with something.

Except that she explained the reads 20 minutes later in 91. And you were there.

[Raskolnikov]

Sad can you give full readslist and go into detail a bit?

[F-oh-ex]

Don't wanna respond to everything in one go. This was more of a "first impressions". I'll reevaluate my responses and respond to the rest after I've read the game a few times.

If you feel my manner is inefficient and hard to read, do say so, and I'll try to come up with a different form.

[Raskolnikov]

Rodion (may I call you Rodion?)

You're the first one to ask me that!
I'd prefer rask just so things don't get confusing, I already feel buddied though

[F-oh-ex]

Rodion (may I call you Rodion?)

You're the first one to ask me that!
I'd prefer rask just so things don't get confusing, I already feel buddied though

No one asked you that yet? :O They should be PUNISHED for that CRIME.

Still scumreading you slightly <3

[Raskolnikov]

I find it hard to believe town ranger isn't townreading zyf, especially considering how she talks to him in 51 which comes off as treating him town.

The last game I was in with her she was pretty actually apparent scum in that normally she wouldn't be completely misreading the game, assuming my own reads aren't off themselves. This isn't nearly as bad but still weird; I would expect her scumgame to be a lot better after that but then again this is hardly a red flag either. Ehh.

Noted but not much comment at this time - meta and "too obvious" are a load of WIFOM in Newbies.

I see what you're saying but this method is pretty much all I have to try to read certain players... People like nachomamma and ranger in a previous game I had almost caught on this reasoning and it's pretty necessary because they can look so town in all other manners, in ranger's case also because her style is defensive and more or less forces you into this approach. It's also not something you can usually do because few reads are what I'd consider "obvious" but for newbies I occasionally see the kind that's way too obvious town and not nearly experienced enough to fake it. It does take a ton of confidence and if I didn't consider myself pretty good at reading myself (ego) I wouldn't try this. The bright side though is even if you're wrong for suspecting someone on this the explanation still gives you something to look at and they may or may not expect you questioning a read which isn't their top scumread like usual.

[Raskolnikov]

I like your catchup but with all due respect completely disagree with your zyf scumread.

Looking forward to your thoughts on vandit, sad and (especially?) ranger though.

[Zyf]

Part 2: pages 3-4

If you must know.

Zyf: Null-town.
Rask: Null-town
Ranger: Null
DVD: Null
Sad: Null-scum.
Beeboy: Null-scum.

A bunch of reads with no comment. From a person who barely writes anything game-related. You'll forgive me if I don't consider these very seriously.

Also, sudden scumreads on Sad are noted.

Uh-huh. Scum reads on me because of only 1 post.
Opinion: Sick is simply sheeping Ranger, his partner. Zyf town.
Foses: not yet anyone. At least for another page
People please, scum reading ANYONE on the first page requires skill.

Probably a hasty opinion but a valuable post. Sad was also in my first newbie so I'll try to use that to read him.

Uh-huh. Scum reads on me because of only 1 post.
Opinion: Sick is simply sheeping Ranger, his partner. Zyf town.
Foses: not yet anyone. At least for another page
People please, scum reading ANYONE on the first page requires skill.

I have to agree–reading sad as scum with one post is a little discomforting.
F-oh-ex, ayale, and dvds all have yet to make meaningful posts, so while I have a suspicion that one poster among us is scum, I hesitate to make pushes for 2 players being scum.
For now:
Null-Town: Rask-although not by much, they do seem to be posting in the interest of the town, and do not appear to have any biases whatsoever.

"any biases whatsoever", ah, language is important and this is a very strong emphasis. Let me pull up 2 posts.

Liking zyf here. Beeboys response reads fairly relaxed though I don't know how good as scum he is.

{beeboy}
{dvds}
{Zyf, sad}

How is zyf at the bottom here?

{zyf}
{beeboy, dvds}
{ranger, sad}

Rodion (may I call you Rodion?) seems to care a lot about zyf - first pointing out his low position in Ranger's bracket list, then putting him on top of his own. That makes Zyf's praise look suspicious to me.

So I have been rereading the fourm and right now everyone is null for me as of the moment, since not alot of discussion has been going on and it has just been kinda chitchatting, have not been able to make out good reads on everyone yet.

Could you perhaps get a read on ranger?
We've been posting more than 'chitchat' and I'm wondering if I'm just being paranoid by reading them as scum.

Awfully pushy.

To me all of rangers posts have been more IC related than actual game stuff, so that is why to me I read her as null for now.

Ditto. Ranger seems to be a good IC so far but no actual alignment read from me.

To me all of rangers posts have been more IC related than actual game stuff, so that is why to me I read her as null for now.

Hrm.
What's making you read me as null? Afaik I've been trying to get discussion going.

I don't like people who immediately jump with "But I did this and that, you should townread me!".

Task is still scum and you are still town.

What about ranger?
And sad? Do you read them as null or do you have a good explanation as to why you think they're scum?

1. Again pushing about opinion on Ranger.
2. Take a look at the last questions. It's an awfully loaded question:

Do you have a null read on them or do you scumread them with a good explanation?

Tsk, tsk, tsk. I don't like that.

Sad and Ranger are null because nothing they have done stands out to me.

So then why do you think sad is being read as scum by /both/ ranger and sickofit?

Asking a person X why people A and B both scumread a person L is a pretty bad question. Especially at this stage of game. Especially when the person B (sickofit) made no meaningful posts so far.

What Zyf is trying do to here is: "two people scumread him, come on, you can't have a null read on him". Compare with what I said about his previous post, just above.

Because something stands out to them that I am clearly not seeing. (I literally only have cop out answers as these are null reads of mine)

I also want sickofit to explain his read first as I already know Ranger wouldn't commit herself to something she can't explain even as scum.

Yeah definitely agree on making sick explain first

:
Right now it looks like ranger's scum and then sickofit is just agreeing to boost the argument, without a real argument of their own other than omgus, which at this stage could probably been changed.

Appreciating the (apparent) honesty here, so I think I'll move you back to null.

I don't like how arbitrarily you call Ranger and sad (more or less directly) scum and then brush off what sickofit is doing, even if you yourself analyse it as bad.

Bold because it will be important in a second.

I find it hard to believe town ranger isn't townreading zyf, especially considering how she talks to him in 51 which comes off as treating him town.

The last game I was in with her she was pretty actually apparent scum in that normally she wouldn't be completely misreading the game, assuming my own reads aren't off themselves. This isn't nearly as bad but still weird; I would expect her scumgame to be a lot better after that but then again this is hardly a red flag either. Ehh.

Noted but not much comment at this time - meta and "too obvious" are a load of WIFOM in Newbies.

Currently, I'm definitely not reading Fox as scum so I'm going to tentatively say Ranger-Sickofit scum team?

I'd like to hear their reads explained first before I go any furthe

r, but I'm struggling to decide which one I want to lynch...
Sickofit on the other hand is a weaker read for me, it's just they seem to be trying to lead the conversation astray, they don't seem to be interested in giving valuable read explanations,

and they read sad as scum because omgus

...they just seem to be following ranger too closely...

Hrm...UNVOTE: ranger and VOTE: sickofit

Also, thanks fox, I'll hopefully see you in a bit.

So Zyf was asking question "why do you think sickofit and Ranger scumread sad", then says twice that he wants sickofit to explain his read, then he jumps to saying "sickofit scumreads sad because omgus".
1. Sickofit never got to explaining his read.
2. You're inconsinstent.

I find it hard to believe town ranger isn't townreading zyf, especially considering how she talks to him in 51 which comes off as treating him town.

The last game I was in with her she was pretty actually apparent scum in that normally she wouldn't be completely misreading the game, assuming my own reads aren't off themselves. This isn't nearly as bad but still weird; I would expect her scumgame to be a lot better after that but then again this is hardly a red flag either. Ehh.

Do you think sickofit is following ranger as a scum team and that's why sick also didn't post their explanations?

Also to ranger: Unfortunately, deliberately not sharing your reads sets a precedent for the newbs like myself, so now I'm having difficulty reading sick as town, too. If everyone else follows your strategy, then we're basically toasted because no one can convince anyone else of...well...anything.

OBJECTION! Leading the witness!

Uh-huh. Scum reads on me because of only 1 post.
Opinion: Sick is simply sheeping Ranger, his partner. Zyf town.
Foses: not yet anyone. At least for another page
People please, scum reading ANYONE on the first page requires skill.

You're arguing against early scumreads and fos and at the same time scumreading sick/ranger as a team?

I see what you're saying, but the difference is sad literally had posted once (on the first page) without any substantial thoughts yet ranger immediately read sad as scum. I think they took offense due to the one post + first page, not the fact that it's RVS rn.

That being said, I like your thinking. I'd like to put you in town.

Updated thoughts:
{Rask}
{...no one}
{beeboy, F o x, sad, Ayale}
{dvds-your lack of interest in getting any thoughts down bothers me, but it could easily be newb caution. Please, the more you put, the better it is for us as a town as a whole}
{Ranger, Sickofit}

Second praising of Rask btw. Also, me and Ayale in the same bracket as beeboy and sad? That's just... wrong. I made like 2 posts at the time and Ayale made none.

Nice, welcome aboard, Vandit.
Interested mostly on your reads on Rask, Ranger, and sickofit.
Your mafia experience?

Not sad this time? Trying to strengthen general scumread on Ranger and sickofit and townread on Rask?

Note that at this point I'm scumreading Zyf already so I might be prone to tunnelling. Asking about one's strongest reads isn't necessarily scummy... but Zyf keeps rubbing me wrong.

*Mr. Lonely plays in background*
Whenever beeboy gets back:
Do you still read rask as scum?

Awwwwwwwww, you care so much about how other people view Rask! It's so cute!

Sick, whenever you get back on, you'd better explain why you read sad as scum.

You already answered that question yourself.

I find it hard to believe town ranger isn't townreading zyf, especially considering how she talks to him in 51 which comes off as treating him town.

I didn't say anything about not townreading them, now, did I?

Hm, so is Rask pushing people townreading Zyf?

Yo where did everyone go

They went to clean the floor after the flood.

Get it? Because you wrote 6 posts in a row?

Oh boy, here we go.

I'm going to go through everything you've pointed out here, which is really good and I see what you mean, as put together like that, I do look scummy due to inconsistency and impatience. I'm glad you're coming in at this stage
So before I say anything else, 2 things:
1) Townreading fox for solid reads on multiple people with convincing evidence to back it up.
2) I was bored as **** these past 2 days because I was sick and the only other option was to study (and lets be honest no one likes doing that for 18 hours). I had this tab open the ENTIRE 48 HOURS. Probably not the smartest idea.

Now, onto my defense.

1) You yourself note that sickofit's reads with no explanation are odd. I took it a step further recognizing the fact that a lot of the reads lined up with Ranger's, neither of which had explanations. I was suspicious, as you can probably tell, that sick was mimicking ranger with the intent of pushing those reads into a more consolidated state to push sad as scum and set those two together up nicely.

2) In response to "buddying up" with rask: As of that point in time, I was glad to have someone else posting at all. So gimmie a sec here...
Yep I think I was mainly relieved to see that someone wasn't kicking me down and that there was finally some useful activity above jokevoting. Yep. Stupid move on my part.
However, everyone else, which they were questioning, seemed to be not overwhelmingly towards any particular person.

3) I didn't want to "brush off" sickofit, I was just putting down my thoughts for possible explanations, wondering if anyone else agreed. It wasn't a confident stride towards anything. In fact, if you pull up this:

OMGUS.

I hAve null on both, I need to get some more info before I'm ready to make a solid read.

You'll see that Sickofit gave some sort of reason for at least voting. As time went on, if you keep reading you'll find I eventually figure out that's not a good reason for a READ.
Again, my inconsistency was mainly due to having a lot of thinking time.
Like a lot.
I even made a diagram of everyone's read and it's confusing as ****. Mafia is hard, jeez.
4) Alright, for the most part everything else seems to be indicating that I'm scummy for being to pushy and for biasing my thoughts.
Those two are mainly due to (1) Again way too much time and (2) I was actually trying to see other's opinions in fear of tunneling too hard. The reason I kept asking whether people thought ranger/sick scum team and rask town was because I was worried I was tunneling too far down that path and that was gonna prevent me from changing. For example, I'm now more null to ranger. For the most part it's due to the fact that I've never really played mafia before and so I was worried my reads were completely out of whack, especially since someone like the IC in the thread thought essentially the exact opposite of me.

If you don't believe I had a lot of time, I can POST the picture of the diagram.
DIAGRAM:

Not to push you to skip my other stuff, in fact, please don't as that looks bad for both of us, but for my main consolidated, confident ideas, here they are:

Alright, here's my last post for tonight.
Isolating sad's and sickofit's posts separately, I've found that, regardless of my urging, neither of them have contributed anythign of real value.
However, while sad's simply been haphazardly defending themself and weakly counterattackig, sick seems to be deliberately leading the town astray:

I do like what be seen some rask.

I definitely would like some more conversation to hop onto.

So 2 questions:
1. Why did you choose your username?
2. How long have you had a general experience in mafia? (Not necessarily just this site)

While the second question makes a decent amount of sense (although it's bascially a copy of mine one post prior), the first one is random, and leads the discussion down a rather time-wasting path that has a very low chance of ending with any mafia-related information gained.

If you must know.

Zyf: Null-town.
Rask: Null-town
Ranger: Null
DVD: Null
Sad: Null-scum.
Beeboy: Null-scum.

First off, the "if you must know" shows signs of reluctance. Also, no one really had asked for their reads in the first place (although reads are always nice, the attitude of presumbaly understanding ranger to want others to post reads-rather than analyzing ranger's, seems off). Finally, the votes have no background or explained logic behind them, and do mimic ranger's thoughts a lot (with only slight shifts), although the mimic could be due to similar natural thought process.
So yeah, to me, even though sad is far from in the clear, sickofit seems scummier to me.

PEdit: what exactly about 112, rask?

As an IC, I can't help but feel very guilty.
I kind-of feel like we've got a dual-newbie scumteam of {sad, Vandit}, which as a newbie is an absolutely

horrible

place to be. It really feels like they're both scum, who don't yet know what they're supposed to be doing.

And if I happen to be right about you two, preemptively, I have to say...sorry. <3

If I'm right, in postgame, I'll try to give you advice to play better, but for now, I would ask you not to quit even though you two are my main suspicions.

I...find myself not trusting this.
The appeal to pity feels...forced?
I can't put my finger on it, but something's off. It's like,

too

gushing or something.

So, here are my views on what'll happen:
1) Lynch sad1492:
If they flip scum, then I'll feel much better about ranger and sickofit.
If they flip town, however...beeboy can definitely be more trusted and first place I'm pointing fingers is a ranger+sickofit scumteam.
2) Lynch sickofit-This is my ideal situation, as I think we'll get more 'mixed' or changing reaction out of this lynch; lynching sad is just that: a lynch. Unless sad claims for themself, their partner is highly unlikely to try and pull them out as it's very suspicious. Sickofit is a bit shakier and more discreet, and will be better for the discussion. Predictions on sick lynch:
If they flip scum, there are multiple people (ranger, apparently vandit, sad could still be scum, etc.) who could be their partners, but we'll have leads to start our investigation from the mess before the actual lynch.
If they flip town, then it'll completely change who I'm looking for. Ranger can be more trusted, and sad is gonna look more scummy for pushing sick and opposing them. Granted, it's mostly been me, but look at Sick's iso for yourself. It looks a lot like someone who's trying to fit in with whatever's going on at the time-without actually contributing anything.
3) Lynch Ranger-right now this is the riskiest one, because if they flip town we're in big trouble because we lost one of the main contributors to the discussions. And they have more experience than say, me.
If they flip scum, however, my first suspicions will be towards sick again. Followed by sad for a possible day 1 bus tactic.
If they flip town, like I said, it's really dangerous.

I'm leaning pretty much solely on option 2 because I think it will yield more than any of the other paths.

Those are the only 3 people I'm interested in lynching right now, anyway.

And finally, my updated reads, cuz those are always useful. Let me know if you want explanation on one or two specific ones
Town: Rask, Fox
Nulltown: Vandit
Null: Beeboy, Ranger, dvds
Nullscum: sad (you guys are all bringing up good arguments and sad isn't even defending themselves)
Scum: Sickofit

[Zyf]

Oh I forgot to mention the whole thing about "you should townread me"
is actually "What did I do wrong please tell me so I have a chance to defend myself."
Like I just did in what I just posted. I gave my reasons for everything so that it's clear that I'm /not/ interested in hiding anything.

[Zyf]

Don't wanna respond to everything in one go. This was more of a "first impressions". I'll reevaluate my responses and respond to the rest after I've read the game a few times.

If you feel my manner is inefficient and hard to read, do say so, and I'll try to come up with a different form.

No, no, this is really good. You're making some good observations and it's very helpful to see someone go through the whole thing in chronological order.

You do you man.

[Zyf]

Ok so I'm gonna ask this one last time since it seems to keep getting buried:
What are the odds that mafia is bussing on day 1?

[Zyf]

By giving them, yet not explaining them, it allows me to share my thoughts without immediately sharing my thoughts

WIFOOOOOOMMMMMM

As soon as I'm caught up, I'll explain my reads.[/quote
And you said you would let people guess... This is quite obvious, Ranger is trying to fos me and at the same time withholding all information on why. But in the end town proved smart enough(somewhat) to not just blatantly follow his lead, so he is forced to actually come up with something.

...people please.
Ranger is a she.

[Zyf]

VOTE: Vandit

That reaction to ranger is horrendous. Attacks her more for being useless and/or wrong than being scum which carries an alignment assumption with it and reads caught-for-wrong reasons.
Instead of either then accusing ranger or trying to figure it out he tries to end the discussion and change the subject entirely? 148 appears to be trying to deflect in what he thinks is a towny way but is pretty absurd in context.

Vote on me is bizarrely reasoned and straight up wtf than anything else; unvoting to vote sickofit with no new posts from either of us is completely inexplicable as well and worse.
Top scumread is sickofit for promising content and then not delivering (112) which I assume was his attention was brought to by my brief mention of it but that's a really shallow scumread.
Having sickofit as his vote and sad as his second lynch after his interaction with ranger and 165 166 which casts shade here is extremely hard to believe given what his sickofit read basis is vs all the content from ranger and sad this game to have looked at.

Focus and reads even line up with sad partner iow what I think ranger's getting at. 110 and 124 is tone defence and dismisses the wagon as random but after ranger posts her vandit/sad he changes sad to his number 2 lynch option ahead of ranger in 152 inexplicably. Vandit having these lynch priorities and not voting ranger despite casting a ton of shade there along with the sad suspicion voiced reads distancing and not wanting to vote with sad here. The sickofit vote could be an appeal to zyf and me as we townread vandit and expressed interest there, but also possibly random onto what looks like an easy slot. The partner association isn't quite as surefire though and this could potentially be with someone else here, but is definitely the most likely combination here. Given the way he treated ranger I can also see a bizarre world here where he's with ranger and ranger potentially lynches sad to clear him although this is almost certainly overthinking it

Entrance tone read really eager, but this posting is, no exaggeration, the scummiest I have ever seen here. I am a touch disappointed if it is van/sad and this is all there is to this game, but given the playerlist here I'm not sure if newbie/newbie ever would have stood a chance as ranger said.

So uhm for your first paragraph
Have you ever played on epicmafia before?
Because on epicmafia everyone's in a big fat hurry.
Games last an average of 10 minutes, just to give you an idea.

After that though, thanks for pointing out the appeal.

However, some of your typos are confusing me. Who are you saying vandit's scum with?

[Raskolnikov]

Mafia bussing day 1 is rare, especially in newbies with the 2 person scumteam.
But it's not really bussing unless they actually go through with the lynch; it's really common for scum to scumread another and push until switching to another wagon.
Until the lynch actually goes through you can't really rule out distancing, especially if its someone who has a lot of influence and could comfortably control the deadline wagon.

[Raskolnikov]

vandit/sad >>>> vandit/ranger or dvds > vandit/??? but the first is overwhelmingly likely.

[Zyf]

Mafia bussing day 1 is rare, especially in newbies with the 2 person scumteam.
But it's not really bussing unless they actually go through with the lynch; it's really common for scum to scumread another and push until switching to another wagon.
Until the lynch actually goes through you can't really rule out distancing, especially if its someone who has a lot of influence and could comfortably control the deadline wagon.

Ok.
Thanks.

DnD I'm gonna go iso everyone and make another chart with everyone's most updated reads

[Zyf]

vandit/sad >>>> vandit/ranger or dvds > vandit/??? but the first is overwhelmingly likely.

That looks a lot like you're reading based on (level of lurk)*(use of comments)/(disparity between reads)

[Raskolnikov]

No?

I know you scumread sick but the association isn't really there with vandit. Didn't consider the epicmafia point though.
Is this normal in terms of EM play?

[Zyf]

Go wild, guys.


PEdit: from my 2 days of play there, yeah. People push and make decisions in 1-2 minutes, so anything useless is immediately flagged.
Either that or everyone just memes and eventually get a completely random vote up.

The fiery attitude def comes from EM tho

[F-oh-ex]

Epicmafia is cancer btw.

[Zyf]

Epicmafia is cancer btw.

Why do you think I'm here

[Zaicon]

Vote Count 1.6

sad1492 (3):

Sickofit1138, F-oh-ex, Ranger

Sickofit1138 (2):

Zyf, Vandit24

Raskolnikov (1):

beeboy

Ranger (1):

sad1492

Vandit24 (1):

Raskolnikov

No Vote (1):

dvds12

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline is Wednesday, June 15, at 4:00 PM CST, which is in (expired on 2016-06-15 16:00:00).

[Zyf]

so.
What if I do this.
UNVOTE: sick
VOTE: sad1492
We really need your reads, sad.
Since no one else is interested in voting sick, we'll get more out of sad as I can't put any more pressure on sick and they don't really seem to care.

Sad, you're now at L-1. Get talking.

[Ranger]

On lunch so I can't respond to everything at the moment, but I'm gonna take a brief moment as the IC to teach you all about a little thing called spoiler tags. Handy for images or great walls of text alike.

Spoiler: You can title them, as so

And put content which is long in here.

You don't have to title them,

Spoiler:

Just like this

But you do need the equal sign tag, because otherwise,

you get black text

. Now, the coding behind this?

Code: Select all

[spoiler=You can title them, as so]And put content which is long in here.[/spoiler] You don't have to title them, [spoiler=]Just like this[/spoiler] But you do need the equal sign tag, because otherwise, [spoiler]you get black text[/spoiler].

So there you go.

[Ranger]

^Quick addendum: you can put spoiler tags inside a quote (though I don't recommend it), and you can put quotes inside a spoiler tag, but make sure you don't try to do both at the same time, and also make sure that you don't end one prematurely. You WILL break the site. I'm not going to demonstrate that, but I'll show you what not to do:

Code: Select all

[quote="This is a quote"][spoiler=This is a spoiler inside a quote][quote="this is a quote inside a spoiler inside a quote and SHOULD NOT BE DONE][/quote][/spoiler][/quote] Will break the site. [spoiler=This is a spoiler][quote="This is a quote"]Text inside a quote[/spoiler][/quote] Will break the site. [quote="This is a quote"][spoiler=This is a spoiler]This is text inside the spoiler[/quote][/spoiler] Will also break the site.

Moral of the story: certain tags don't stack well, so make sure you're closing them in the appropriate order.