Micro 609: DC Dual Universes uPick - Game over!

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also, let me make sure I have this right. Ranger thinks you're scum on Earth-One, and you think she's scum on Earth-Two, right? Ranger, what makes you think Magna is town on Earth-Two exactly?

Not completely accurate. I think Ranger is scum on one Earth at least. Not sorted as of yet which (or both).

[Clumsy]

Ah, okay.

[SnarkySnowman]

Also, let me make sure I have this right. Ranger thinks you're scum on Earth-One, and you think she's scum on Earth-Two, right? Ranger, what makes you think Magna is town on Earth-Two exactly?

Not completely accurate. I think Ranger is scum on one Earth at least. Not sorted as of yet which (or both).

Hmm. Again, I see your thought process on Ranger being scum, but I'm starting to think maybe not so much on Earth 1 and more on Earth 2? I'm going to have to see her Earth 1 focus before I really make up my mind on that one though.

[lilith2013]

I mean, Ranger, you've literally just decided that I must be scum and no matter what the NK was supposed to be, I'm scum, based on, what exactly? And you've also decided that Magna must be scum (in E1), no matter what?

I thought you were bad at reading me but you've been getting better recently; this "certainty" paramount to tunneling basically confirms you're scum for me.

VOTE: Ranger

[lilith2013]

^also not sure which world, but I figure Earth two isn't a bad start; also, I was townreading lane in Earth One and not so much here, so that's still tinging my read on the slot.

[Ranger]

the faked drop is that she couldn’t find the Earth2 thread.

I was under the impression we were still on Earth-1, and that Earth-2 functioned the way Varsoon's multiple-dimension mechanic worked in Space Dandy. I didn't play that game because it was a large theme, but I was heavily considering it and I thought this game might implement the multiple-worlds mechanic similarly.

I was sent my Earth-1 and Earth-2 roles at the same time, but there was no explanation on how Earth-2 worked in the role PM and the last time I actually read the post on how the mechanics of the game worked was when the game was first in signups. I had seen

this thread

. I saw it on Earth-1. I assumed that the time the thread was locked was Earth-2 discussion time, and that a death had occurred during Earth-2 discussion time, and that we were back on Earth-1. This wrong assumption gave away I do not have a night action in Earth-2 (after lane had already claimed VT in Earth-1), information I would not have willingly disclosed.

If you agree that Ranger is as sharp as some people claim she it then it does not follow that she would constantly be making derps like that which are beyond the pale as far as outright stupidity are concerned.

I'm not omniscient as town. I'm not some perfect player. I do make mistakes. It is actually my scumgame which is sharper than my towngame. In my scumgame, I create observations like this post, where I made a sharp "deduction" about the setup: noting the play of my scum partners, I fabricated a scenario which was highly probable.

When I make a mistake, there are three possibilities:

1. I'm scum who made a legitimate mistake.
2. I'm town who made a legitimate mistake.
3. I'm scum who is faking a mistake in order to push an agenda.

The former two are indistinguishable from one another because they are not alignment indicative. They're just derp mistakes. The third, however?

In a recent game with Ranger (ended), she came in and derp hammered someone, claiming to not have read yet. She was venge-killed for it, and turned out she was the last scum.

That game was an example of the third. As noted both in the mafia topic,

and

postgame, it was a strategic move. Alchemist21 had claimed my role. I could therefore not claim to be making a deliberate hammer without having counterclaimed him, ergo, the only way I could hammer is if I did so "accidentally". I had a scumread on the slot prior, which would help cover it up. I also knew when I made the move, and this bit is critical,

the game was unwinnable for scum

. The best I could do is get it down to 3 votes, under the absolute BEST case scenario. (Lynch the vengeful, vengeful vengekills the PGO, dolphin flips happen, lynch the town dolphin, get to three votes and be lynched as confscum. The dolphin flips happening BEFORE the vengekill meant that couldn't happen.)

Strategic derp has an obvious agenda here. Strategic derp has me deliberately trying to make a point about it. "Oh, that action makes me conftown!" Strategic derp has

me

as the one bringing it up. But here, I have been deliberately trying to NOT bring it up. My original post on the matter? 937. Generic, "that was stupid", deliberately NOT going into details. When revisited in 944, still NOT going into details. It wasn't until after MagnaofIllusion brought the subject up that you get 967, in which I'm not using it to clear myself. I'm still trying, very hard, to just DROP THE POINT, IGNORE IT, AND LET IT GO. Because there was no strategy behind it. Just derp. So! Again my point to MagnaofIllusion. If he wants to make a case on me that I would accidentally derp as scum while not derping as town, he's free to do so.

If he wants to continue making a case that I am scum deliberately faking derp for towncred, he can kiss. my. ass.

[Ranger]

I mean, Ranger, you've literally just decided that I must be scum and no matter what the NK was supposed to be, I'm scum, based on, what exactly?

Yes. I went over the logic here extensively.

If Xkfyu was flat-out nightkilled in this earth, it was likely for his play in last earth. His play in last-earth would suggest you as a major candidate for being scum in this earth, afraid he would catch you.
If Xkfyu successfully protected someone, he likely saved someone who scum of Earth-2 wanted gone. Assuming that one player who's scum on earth-1 draws town in earth-2, but that the other scum is scum on both earths, then there would be fallout from this in-thread. The scum-turned-town player cannot play against their wincon and say they're scum in earth-1, but having that knowledge, they would be incredibly suspicious of their earth-1 scumbuddy in earth-2 and think they were still scum.
This is a match for the interactions between MagnaofIllusion and you.
723, 745, 746, 748, 753, 774, 807, 832, 835, 836, 837, 838, 839, 841, 842, that whole stream of posts towards each other read as this type of interaction. You

know

the alignments of each other in Earth-1. I think one, but not both, of you kept that alignment in Earth-2.

Your play in here is more or less identical to your play on Earth-1, whereas MagnaofIllusion is playing more to his "a-HA! Gotcha!" town game.
Furthermore, supporting that you're scum in Earth-1 is the already-established fact you were a neighbor with Javajoe, playing in the most scummy way a neighbor could possibly be treating their neighbor. It also matches your interactions with MagnaofIllusion in Earth-1. You engage in questioning of one another, yet you never actually vote each other. You basically didn't interact with Soren, your interaction with MagnaofIllusion did happen but nothing productive, and while MagnaofIllusion distanced by calling you bad, you get gems like his 482 where you are among precious few townreads. 497 is another classical scum-scum interaction. It's everywhere.

You two are scum together in that Earth.
You are probably not scum together in this Earth.
I think this is MagnaofIllusion's town game.
I also think you are still scum in this Earth.

[SirCakez]

Votecount 2.5

SnarkySnowman (4) - KuroiXHF, TellTaleHeart, Javajoe24, MagnaOfIllusion
lilith2013 (1) - Ranger
KuroiXHF (1) - SnarkySnowman
Ranger (1) - lilith2013

Not voting (1) - Clumsy

With 8 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch someone.

(expired on 2016-06-07 18:16:00) remain until day end

Lilith2013 is V/LA until June 5.
MagnaOfIllusion is V/LA until June 11.

[Clumsy]

No wonder I didn't get aquaman - he was one of my top choices!

VOTE: Clumsy for the hell of it.

I'm going back through today now that I have a day off. But before reading through, here's what reads I have so far.

TTH is sitting in the middle for me. Incredibly awkward phrasing of a reasoning she had with Lilith, but I can buy it for now.

Joe is also at null, although slightly lower. Mostly lack of interaction so far. I don't like that he's completely discounting analyzing Earth-One. Snowman is an easy vote as well. Could be coasting?

I don't like Snowman here either, and I actually almost put my vote there. I would have checked votes anyway, but that VC was helpful. I think Snowman will seem scummy anyway, either as town or scum.

I do feel like there's scum between Ranger and Magna, although I'm not sure which Earth(s). I'm also a bit unsure of Kuroi, something feels different there.

My readthrough will focus on Snowman, Ranger, Kuroi, and Magna mostly. I didn't realize deadline was so close, I'll have something better for you guys at some point today.

[Clumsy]

^also not sure which world, but I figure Earth two isn't a bad start; also, I was townreading lane in Earth One and not so much here, so that's still tinging my read on the slot.

This has been bothering me every time I read it so far. It seemed like a pushback vote, a push to get you to stop looking here, and the reasoning for voting here was added as an afterthought.

[Clumsy]

No wonder I didn't get aquaman - he was one of my top choices!

VOTE: Clumsy for the hell of it.

Feels a little forced to me. Overjustifying an RVS vote. Gripes are small-ish though.

ONE:

{Clumsy, Xkfyu, TellTaleHeart}
{lilith}
{MagnaofIllusion}
{SnarkySnowman}
{Kuroi}
6.

Do you seriously expect us to believe that your character has no powers???

Uhh...about that.

I think Kuroi's scum, but it's definitely not for that.

ONE:

{Xkfyu, TellTaleHeart}
{Clumsy}
{MagnaofIllusion, Kuroi, lilith}
{SnarkySnowman}
Bit of a soft reset, as of 15.

ONE:

{Xkfyu, TellTaleHeart}
{Clumsy}
{Kuroi, lilith}
{SnarkySnowman}
{MagnaofIllusion}
Guess who had a scum entrance on page 20?

What caused this turnaround on Kuroi? And what exactly about the entrance pinged you?

(Yes, I know this was Earth-One.)

[Clumsy]

...this isn't your full read, right? You're still posting more tomorrow?

Yeah, I just wanted to tear apart your readlist for now. It's not exactly an OMGUS vote.

Can we get followup on this Snowman?

[Clumsy]

As I've stated in the read list that I have a gut feeling that you're town, but I dislike a lot of what you've written. I'll be honest, I'd really like to abstain from giving my opinion on Snarky on Earth One until we get back there. He's the kind of guy I always want to lynch, but a bit less so there.

Lane, sorry to see you go. Take care of yourself.

Replying to Snowman:
- Lilith, how is it forced?
- MoI, I speak more about something as I don't like it than I do... although I could easily say the same about you. "Not a lot of content from someone who claims to be town."
- Clumsy, how is that bullshit?
- Joe, he didn't post a lot. What more do you want from me?

Snowman, then it's not shortly, is it?
Eh is not a good excuse.
You're still not being useful.

If you disagree, want to set up with a read list of your own?

So wish-wash. Lynch Kuroi please.

You didn't answer any of these questions here. This 2 sentence answer is, as Kuroi said, not helpful at all.


So far I am okay with a Snowman lynch. My only problem is that there's a non-zero chance he's town and it's just Snowman being Snowman, and we lose a lynch and lose a town. Although I'd rather it be here than LyLo.

[Clumsy]

Yeah, I'm not really seeing any strategic value to "not realizing it's Earth-Two" here with Ranger. There's strategic value to a mislynch "accident". Here, where we had plenty of time, and everyone corrected her very quickly, I don't see it as any possible scum intention.

[Clumsy]

Okay, this is where I'm at I think.

[Ranger]
[Kuroi]
[TTH, Lilith]
[Joe, Magna]
[SnarkySnowman]


Although, Ranger, why are you strong townreading me? To be frank, I don't think I've been doing that great of a job so far. Why so high on your list?

We still have 3 days to talk about all of this, so I'm refraining from putting my vote on Snowman, but if nothing much changes, that's where it's going.

[Javajoe24]

After your post 984 how is Lilith still a null to you?

[Clumsy]

Because it's the only thing bothering me about it, and not really all that much. It's a minor thing that I might be overthinking. She is lower than TTH though.

[Javajoe24]

Sorry guys, but how do you put a link to a post in? Like if I wanted to link post 984 I have no clue how to do it without quoting it.

[Clumsy]

Go into the full reply menu. There's a button that says "post".

It will give you this (without asterisks) [*post][/*post]

Put the number in the middle.

[*post]992[/*post]
992

[SnarkySnowman]

I mean, Ranger, you've literally just decided that I must be scum and no matter what the NK was supposed to be, I'm scum, based on, what exactly?

Yes. I went over the logic here extensively.

If Xkfyu was flat-out nightkilled in this earth, it was likely for his play in last earth. His play in last-earth would suggest you as a major candidate for being scum in this earth, afraid he would catch you.
If Xkfyu successfully protected someone, he likely saved someone who scum of Earth-2 wanted gone. Assuming that one player who's scum on earth-1 draws town in earth-2, but that the other scum is scum on both earths, then there would be fallout from this in-thread. The scum-turned-town player cannot play against their wincon and say they're scum in earth-1, but having that knowledge, they would be incredibly suspicious of their earth-1 scumbuddy in earth-2 and think they were still scum.
This is a match for the interactions between MagnaofIllusion and you.
723, 745, 746, 748, 753, 774, 807, 832, 835, 836, 837, 838, 839, 841, 842, that whole stream of posts towards each other read as this type of interaction. You

know

the alignments of each other in Earth-1. I think one, but not both, of you kept that alignment in Earth-2.

Your play in here is more or less identical to your play on Earth-1, whereas MagnaofIllusion is playing more to his "a-HA! Gotcha!" town game.
Furthermore, supporting that you're scum in Earth-1 is the already-established fact you were a neighbor with Javajoe, playing in the most scummy way a neighbor could possibly be treating their neighbor. It also matches your interactions with MagnaofIllusion in Earth-1. You engage in questioning of one another, yet you never actually vote each other. You basically didn't interact with Soren, your interaction with MagnaofIllusion did happen but nothing productive, and while MagnaofIllusion distanced by calling you bad, you get gems like his 482 where you are among precious few townreads. 497 is another classical scum-scum interaction. It's everywhere.

You two are scum together in that Earth.
You are probably not scum together in this Earth.
I think this is MagnaofIllusion's town game.
I also think you are still scum in this Earth.

You've pretty much got me sold there.

VOTE: lilith

[SnarkySnowman]

Because Spiderman does what he wants.

Pretty sure Spiderman is Marvel...

Following Ranger's case that lilith is scum, and my own notion that Kuroi is scum (earth 2 talk only this post),

This as as minor as they are and I'm sure it can change considering how early it is on essentially, a different day one...

VOTE: MoI

Seems to fit, given the interaction (which starts post ~748 or so, between lilith and kuroi) - there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of reason for Kuroi to make that vote imo.

And 757 confuses me a little bit, too.

Also, Kuroi's 764:

It is early and possibly premature, but my first guess of Earth Two scum is Lilith and MoI.

________________________________________
Side Note

My "case" for scum!magna was actually his post about you striking me as so at odds with his D1 posting.

@Lilith:

What makes you think MoI is scum in Earth 2 but town in Earth 1, compared to the opposite?
________________________________________

813 to 816 is another interaction, though I think this one is probably more my confbias, not really an important interaction. Not sure.

836 is a great one (that Ranger pointed out) that I think illustrates the difference between Earth 1 and Earth 2 MoI. And also some similarities between lilith's E1 and E2.

Here are my thoughts.

- I think the speed-lynch on MoI is ridiculous, but not as ridiculous as he thinks. Lilith brought up a good point. I felt it was enough for a vote, but not enough for a lynch. That's why I backed out.
- I find Clumsy to be obvious scum on Earth One and Telltale to be obvious town on Earth One. Switch those, and that's Earth Two. (Except I wouldn't call Telltale obvious scum. He's definitely lean scum, though.)
- Lane I'm waffling on. He's probably town on Earth One, but definitely not Earth Two.
- Lilith I kind of want to vote, but it's giving me worries that I'm scum reading everyone.
- MoI should have been voted for not producing his usual insight, but not for existing. Not on essentially Day One of Earth Two.

^Feels like classic buddying towards lilith's points, along with softbussing.

See the top part of my post 862, I agree with myself and feel a little stronger about it, the readlist Kuroi does in 854 feels pretty forced, especially on his read for lilith, which is all over the place. That whole readlist is pretty garbage, tbh.

I've commented more on that since, but you get the idea.

[SnarkySnowman]

By the way, I'm at L-1, if there's intent to hammer I'll claim.

[Javajoe24]

Intent to hammer

[SnarkySnowman]

Town Gladiator. I can use my ability during the day to make the only lynch candidates be myself and one other person.

[SnarkySnowman]

Given how I'm at L-1, I'm not sure this is a good time to use it <_<