Open 644: Stack the Deck - Game Over

[ploben]

@Ranger
Is that list town to scum top to bottom?

[Ranger]

You listed shadow_step twice

The lower one was the mistake.
Anyway!
{Shadow_step, Chip Butty, Florestan}
{karnos}
{duppin, BTD6}
{Alpaca}
{Dunnstral}
{ploben}

[Ranger]

Ranger
Is that list town to scum top to bottom?

Guess.

[ploben]

Yes?

[Dunnstral]

If it's not top scum bottom town then Ranger is laughably (suspiciously?) off with those reads

[Dunnstral]

Chip butty is town though pretty sure

Problem town sure but not mafia

[Dunnstral]

How did you get a read on Shadow_Step on page 1?

[ploben]

Shadow didnt have a post page 1.

Can you just clue me in on your list Ranger? Or can someone else?

[AlpacaAlpaca]

Ranger
Is that list town to scum top to bottom?

Guess.

Well I mean usually when I've seen these lists before they go town on top and scum on the bottom, so assuming thats correct what do you think of Flores townreading Dunn?

[karnos]

I never "cleared" anyone?

You said I am not hunting mafia. I am clearly hunting ploben. You obviously implied that he can't be mafia, otherwise wouldn't my hunting be... scum hunting?

Not going to quote it all here, but I also find some of your phrasing to be a bit humorous. For instance, you call my theory on why a scum might claim IC "dumb", but then you later say that ploben's joke was "dumb"... so you are tacitly admitting that you do think it's likely he did something dumb... how can you be sure he would do the dumb thing you think he did rather than the dumb thing I think he did?

>Are you assuming that the rest of town will follow along with my push?

Nope. In previous games I wasted a lot of effort defending myself early on. I'm not going to do that this game. If you want to lynch a town player, it's on you, I'm going to focus on offensive rather than defensive play this game. I just wanted to be clear about my intentions, so that the absence of a strong defense isn't seen as some sort of admission of guilt- it's anything but.

>You're not contributing anything original and I'm not seeing genuine scumhunting

We can only lynch one scum per day, why are you so unsatisfied with the one I found? One interesting difference between us: I know your vote on my is against town- I know for a fact your scum hunting efforts have failed you. On the other hand, you can't know ploben is town. Either you are town reading him as town, in which case you could be wrong, or you and him are both scum and you are lying. I doubt the later case, but I certainly don't doubt the former as a possibility.

[ploben]

Either you are town reading him as town, in which case you could be wrong, or you and him are both scum and you are lying

Don't buddy me so hard Dunnstral, they're on to us

[Dunnstral]

Not going to quote it all here, but I also find some of your phrasing to be a bit humorous. For instance, you call my theory on why a scum might claim IC "dumb", but then you later say that ploben's joke was "dumb"...

so you are tacitly admitting that you do think it's likely he did something dumb... how can you be sure he would do the dumb thing you think he did rather than the dumb thing I think he did?

...what?
Not sure what your argument here is or why I have to be "so sure" on page 6

>Are you assuming that the rest of town will follow along with my push?

Nope. In previous games I wasted a lot of effort defending myself early on. I'm not going to do that this game.

If you want to lynch a town player, it's on you

, I'm going to focus on offensive rather than defensive play this game. I just wanted to be clear about my intentions, so that the absence of a strong defense isn't seen as some sort of admission of guilt- it's anything but.

The way you talk is like you know that I'm town. Why are you throwing shade/lightly pushing me if you think I'm town?

>You're not contributing anything original and I'm not seeing genuine scumhunting

We can only lynch one scum per day, why are you so unsatisfied with the one I found? One interesting difference between us:

I know your vote on my is against town- I know for a fact your scum hunting efforts have failed you. On the other hand, you can't know ploben is town. Either you are town reading him as town, in which case you could be wrong, or you and him are both scum and you are lying. I doubt the later case, but I certainly don't doubt the former as a possibility.

Oh man I

could

be wrong huh

Notibly either I'm town and reading ploben wrong or me and ploben are both mafia.

And if we're both town?

Also why are you unsatisfied with the scum I found?

[Dunnstral]

Either you are town reading him as town, in which case you could be wrong, or you and him are both scum and you are lying

Don't buddy me so hard Dunnstral, they're on to us

Shh you'll end up on the wrong side of ranger's read list

Don't ask me what side that is though

[Florestan]

Pretty sure Dunn is town here.

I can't tell if this is buddying from scum or what since you were clear last game and joined in way late and wrote big walls of text for everyone's alignment. It just seems really weird to see you just drop a one-liner "X is Y"

It's probably just that we're still in early early game but still I don't know if I expected like analysis on the gamestate from you or what

Thoughts on Karnos?

Okay, you have the clearest and most transparent thought processes this game outside of Chip dumbtelled as town. Even that I think you went back on so in a game of random IC shenanigans which I don't care about you are cutting through it best. You might be just a really good player but I'm going to keep you as town for now.

You listed shadow_step twice

The lower one was the mistake.
Anyway!
{Shadow_step, Chip Butty, Florestan}
{karnos}
{duppin, BTD6}
{Alpaca}
{Dunnstral}
{ploben}

hmmm, after rereading I'm liking Ploben more and Chip less. Shadow I have an inkling how you got that read, but nearly every other read you have feels like BS to me. I've heard you have good reads so not the biggest fan right now. Dunn and plob should be higher, as should Alpaca probably.

[Dunnstral]

You didn't say anything about karnos for either quote

[Florestan]

Obviously because we are scum partners together and I don't want to have an awkward interaction with him.


I just can't read him.

[Dunnstral]

But you mentioned alpaca should be higher on the list even though he has 2 posts?

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Ranger

Also this is Shadow's 2nd page post

So whether Ranger is hard town reading or hard scum reading them is laughable either way

Like I'm expecting ranger to come in here and say that list was a reaction test and post a real list

[Ranger]

How did you get a read on Shadow_Step on page 1?

Two sources.
First, mod error. Shadow_step replaced in for a slot who, as Persivul explicitly said, did not pick up their role PMs. If the slot were scum, then we wouldn't have had scum choose the setup.
Second, and using less controversial logic, 17 didn't look like an RVS vote on a scumbuddy.

so assuming thats correct what do you think of Flores townreading Dunn?

Eh, nobody's perfect.

Like I'm expecting ranger to come in here and say that list was a reaction test and post a real list

What people don't seem to realize is that my readslists are

both

real

and

reaction tests. That's the genius behind them, which Ranger imitators fail to understand. ^_^

[Dunnstral]

First, mod error. Shadow_step replaced in for a slot who, as Persivul explicitly said, did not pick up their role PMs. If the slot were scum, then we wouldn't have had scum choose the setup.

Uh.... there's more than one mafia to choose the setup
Mafia traitor is also a role that exists

17 didn't look like an RVS vote on a scumbuddy.

Probably because proben is town

[Dunnstral]

Shadow I have an inkling how you got that read

Uh.... there's more than one mafia to choose the setup
Mafia traitor is also a role that exists

[BTD6_maker]

If Shadow Step's predecessor Snubben was indeed scum, the other scum could have chosen the setup. In fact, Snubben could have received a Mafia PR and not given any confirmation beyond that.

[BTD6_maker]

Incidentally, Ranger put Shadow Step twice in a reads list. It seems more likely for scum to do it because really there would be no way Ranger both strongly townreads and weakly scumreads him. However, in the process of making a reads list scum have an agenda in mind, which could be hiding their partners or incriminating a Townie, and thus are more likely to make the mistake.
This occurred in Open 638, where Ranger included the moderator as a nullread. She was Mafia in that game, so I'm inclined to weak scumread her for that.

[Ranger]

Incidentally, Ranger put Shadow Step twice in a reads list. It seems more likely for scum to do it because really there would be no way Ranger both strongly townreads and weakly scumreads him.

The second time I noted Shadow_step's vote as null.
Not scum, just null. It was nothing more likely to come from town or scum. You and duppin were and still are townreads.
When I realized Shadow_Step was on the list twice, I remembered who he was. That meant his null action, which did nothing to influence my thoughts on him one way or another, had no influence on his proper placing at the top of my readslist.

This occurred in Open 638, where Ranger included the moderator as a nullread.

And I said, multiple times, that it was not done with an agenda. It was a derp move. Not a scum move. I make mistakes in my lists. (In fact, you yourself note that in the process of making readslists, there's an agenda in mind. It's within my interests, as scum, to therefore

not

make mistakes! Because mistakes draw unwanted attention to myself.) They are not mistakes that hold any relevance to alignment. You'd know, given you

shot me

in part because I

had accurate reads

. I was legitimately scumhunting that game and I nailed your entire team. So the mistake I made there was, consequentially, just a legitimate mistake.

Honestly, it's like the latest rage in scumreading Ranger is in my lists. I think I almost preferred the accusations of "Where's Ranger? She should be posting by now if town." (...Almost.) It gets old. Fast. Very fast. This is not the first game it has happened it. It will not be the last.

[Chip Butty]

First, mod error. Shadow_step replaced in for a slot who, as Persivul explicitly said, did not pick up their role PMs. If the slot were scum, then we wouldn't have had scum choose the setup.

Uh.... there's more than one mafia to choose the setup
Mafia traitor is also a role that exists

It depends on what policy the Mod implemented on the scum setup choices. If he wanted to wait for a full complement of scum before letting them choose their role-mods, then Ranger is correct. OTOH, if he was content to let a partial complement of scum go ahead and choose the role-mods, then not.

Mod: What is your policy in the situation where you have a scum drop out in the setup phase? Do you insist on having a full complement of scum aboard before allowing the choice of scum role-mods, or not?