Open 644: Stack the Deck - Game Over

[Chip Butty]

I asked a question. I never made a statement misrepping something you said.

Your question misrepped what I said. Disguising the misrep in the form of a question will not get you anywhere.

[Dunnstral]

You know the mod can't answer that right

[Chip Butty]

Probably because proben is town

Dunnstral, you realize you have created an incredibly strong association between you and ploben, right? And if he flips scum, you are going to look very scummy too? More than you do already, I mean. What makes you so sure he is Town? Are you even

slightly

suspicious of him?

[Chip Butty]

You know the mod can't answer that right

I think he is obliged to. We are entitled to know everything about the setup, including the answer to this question. If Shadow was compromised by Moderr as Ranger says, then that is bad luck for Shadow.

[Chip Butty]

Interesting that you want to block the question going through, btw. I mean, on top of your stalwart defense of ploben.

[Dunnstral]

He's not flipping anything because we're not lynching him

But to humor you, what if he flips town? What does that make me?

Rather I naturally have to disagree that if proben flips scum I'm also scum, it would just mean that I'm wrong about his alignment (but probably not wrong on the fact that the ic claim isn't really "why he's scum")

But I don't think I'm wrong, I already gave some reasoning as to why I think he looks town, I'm pretty sure you and him are just town vs town

Chip you're that one town that just tunnels on something stupid all game long and ignores actual scummy stuff that's going on

Like I think you're way off base to be pursuing ploben here

I actually have a few more scum reads than karnos forming but I'm waiting for people to respond to some other stuff before saying anything

[Dunnstral]

You know the mod can't answer that right

I think he is obliged to. We are entitled to know everything about the setup, including the answer to this question. If Shadow was compromised by Moderr as Ranger says, then that is bad luck for Shadow.

Interesting that you want to block the question going through, btw. I mean, on top of your stalwart defense of ploben.

>block the question coming through

He can't answer it regardless man, you're being obtuse

[Persivul]

Votecount 1.2

Bulletproof Ben (1) - BTD6
karnos (3) - duppin, dunnstral, ploben
Ranger (1) - Shadow
Ploben (3) - florestan, karnos, chip butty

Not voting (4) - Ranger, Bulletproof Ben, Scott Brosius, AlpacaAlpaca

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

(expired on 2016-06-19 07:30:00) remain until day end

[Chip Butty]

Chip can I get your thoughts on karnos because that's what I really care about right now
Like we can quick-hammer this guy, just can't see him as town

ploben isn't really making much sense to me.

He makes a remark about being IC, in a jokey manner.

A few posts later he says it will be confirmed, not so jokey this time.

A few people vote him and call him out for his fake IC claim.

Now ploben is like "oh, it was a fake claim! if you thought it was real it's because at least one of you is scum!"

ploben, I think everyone voting you is voting you because it was obviously a fake claim, not because they thought it was legit.

I don't like the above events. I am not sure yet if I don't like them because I can see a scum motivation behind them, or if I just don't like them because there is an "ah ha I'm smart I tricked you guys" motivation behind them.

Mod must be a little backed up, he'll post it soon.

Does this really sound jokey?

Also I'm confirmed (not so) Innocent (mind like a) Child.

That's supposed to be Mod-confirmed, and I don't see the Mod confirming it yet. Until he does...

UNVOTE: VOTE: ploben

Mod must be a little backed up, he'll post it soon.

My claim was clearly a joke

I see you original IC comment potentially being a joke, but you response to chip butty is totally not a joke. You post a joke, someone takes it as a serious post, you reply "lol, I was joking". When you don't do that, it makes your whole statement suspect.

I'm reading Karnos as Town atm because, despite what his detractors say, he has made original contributions to the case on ploben, and isn't just sheeping. In particular, in the area of shooting down ploben's "joke" defense.

I have to say that calling for a quicklynch also pings me quite hard. What's the rush? Day lasts two weeks. We should use as much time as we can to maximize our chances of hitting scum D1.

[Dunnstral]

OK so everyone that disagrees with your one read is mafia and everyone who agrees with it is town?

I have to say that calling for a quicklynch also pings me quite hard. What's the rush? Day lasts two weeks. We should use as much time as we can to maximize our chances of hitting scum D1.

Just letting you know that this line is way worse than anything I've said regarding a quicklynch

[Chip Butty]

You know the mod can't answer that right

I think he is obliged to. We are entitled to know everything about the setup, including the answer to this question. If Shadow was compromised by Moderr as Ranger says, then that is bad luck for Shadow.

Interesting that you want to block the question going through, btw. I mean, on top of your stalwart defense of ploben.

>block the question coming through

He can't answer it regardless man, you're being obtuse

Why are you so concerned about it? Why not just leave it up to the Mod to answer or not?

[Dunnstral]

Think I'm gonna get a headache talking to you

[Chip Butty]

OK so everyone that disagrees with your one read is mafia and everyone who agrees with it is town?

No, you are misrepping me. I have never said that.

I have to say that calling for a quicklynch also pings me quite hard. What's the rush? Day lasts two weeks. We should use as much time as we can to maximize our chances of hitting scum D1.

Just letting you know that this line is way worse than anything I've said regarding a quicklynch

How so? It's something I say in just about every game I play. It is hard for scum to keep up their charade over two weeks, under constant scrutiny. Please explain your thinking(?) here.

[Chip Butty]

Two strong links b/w ploben, Dunstrall, and duppin. The latter two hard-defending the former, and all three hard on karnos' case, and voting him. It IS a bit hard to imagine scum making their association so public this early on, I admit...

[Chip Butty]

Think I'm gonna get a headache talking to you

I'd be more worried about a terminally sore neck, if I was you.

[ploben]

I'm honestly more worried about Florestan's change of heart on me, even though it's the correct read. He's also starting to distance himself from Chip.

Chip with these mod interactions is reading like scum trying so hard to look town.

Speculation: Mafia have day talk only and don't know who the traitor is, which might explain Chip. Or their recruited goon has gone a bit sidewise on D1. Plus I feel like if there is one (in a 2 scum setup) or two (in a 3 scum setup) active mafia members at the start there seems to always be a lurker taking it all in and waiting to setup their own play.

[duppin]

Duppin thoughts on karnos? I see you're voting him from rvs, is that serious now?

Kind of. I think the reason for the push on ploben is ridiculous. This doesn't even have anything to do with my read on him, I just find it really questionable that people push on what was obviously a joke (no matter how you try to twist it) as a serious play, and even in that case I still don't understand how it'd be a scum play.

I'm leaning town on ploben. The only problem I had with his play was that he was implying it was a reaction test before, so I asked him about it but his answer was good. (#117)

Not really a fan of Ranger's readlist. Having both Dunnstral and ploben that low is a bit interesting. Care to explain the Dunnstral read?

[ploben]

Two strong links b/w ploben, Dunstrall, and duppin. The latter two hard-defending the former, and all three hard on karnos' case, and voting him. It IS a bit hard to imagine scum making their association so public this early on, I admit...

Incorrect. "Scum wouldn't do (insert behavior here)..." is a horrible line of reasoning. Scum will LITERALLY do ANYTHING to win.

This line of reasoning isn't necessarily alignment indicative but...
If this is coming from town, you need to reevaluate how you look at, not only this game, but all games.
If this is coming from scum, it's a good way to back peddle on a push, defend a scumbuddy, or defend your own scummy actions.

[duppin]

Oh and I believe there is at least one scum on ploben's train. I think he is town and it's a very questionable wagon. Very weak reason and honestly just seems like lazy scumhunting.

I have a slight town read on Chip, which leaves karnos and Florestan. At the moment I find Karnos more suspicious.

@Karnos, ignore Dunnstral for a moment please. Do you have reads on anyone else?

[duppin]

Two strong links b/w ploben, Dunstrall, and duppin. The latter two hard-defending the former, and all three hard on karnos' case, and voting him. It IS a bit hard to imagine scum making their association so public this early on, I admit...

So you think mafia recruited the traitor?

[Chip Butty]

Duppin thoughts on karnos? I see you're voting him from rvs, is that serious now?

Kind of. I think the reason for the push on ploben is ridiculous. This doesn't even have anything to do with my read on him, I just find it really questionable that people push on what was obviously a joke (no matter how you try to twist it) as a serious play, and even in that case I still don't understand how it'd be a scum play.

I'm leaning town on ploben. The only problem I had with his play was that he was implying it was a reaction test before, so I asked him about it but his answer was good. (#117)

Not really a fan of Ranger's readlist. Having both Dunnstral and ploben that low is a bit interesting. Care to explain the Dunnstral read?

You're kidding, right? #117 was awful.

And why are you insisting that ploben was joking when it is clear from his follow-up posts where he says the Mod will do the conf later, etc. that he wasn't? And it is straight after that that he starts to backpedal.

You still don't understand how it would be a scum play? Really? Let me spell it out once again: ploben fails to notice that IC is to be modconfed and claims it in such a way that he can back out with a "joke" defense if someone counterclaims. If nobody counterclaims then he gets stands to get some Town cred out of it. Later, when caught by the modconf thing, he tries that joke defense but it gets shot down by karnos, so he switches to "reaction test". When

that

inconsistency is pointed out, he switches again to the frankendefence in #117, a hybrid of the two.

[Chip Butty]

Two strong links b/w ploben, Dunstrall, and duppin. The latter two hard-defending the former, and all three hard on karnos' case, and voting him. It IS a bit hard to imagine scum making their association so public this early on, I admit...

Incorrect. "Scum wouldn't do (insert behavior here)..." is a horrible line of reasoning. Scum will LITERALLY do ANYTHING to win.

This line of reasoning isn't necessarily alignment indicative but...
If this is coming from town, you need to reevaluate how you look at, not only this game, but all games.
If this is coming from scum, it's a good way to back peddle on a push, defend a scumbuddy, or defend your own scummy actions.

Yes, scum will do anything to win, but creating strong associations between them this early in the game is a horrible strategy for winning, because if one of them falls, the rest will follow quickly. That is why it is hard to imagine them doing this - there is no real need for it, so it would be a REALLY dumb play. Nothing personal but, yeah, REALLY dumb.

Nice attempt to discredit my reads. btw. Classic scum tactic.

[duppin]

#117 isn't awful. He acknowledges he didn't do it as a reaction test, but it ended up being one.

The point of an IC is it gets modconfirmed, how could he possibly "fail to notice" this? It was obvious he was joking, take a look at his posts:

@Bulletproof Ben
Please post picture of you wearing Kevlar vest with MS website in background with today's date and/or role PM to confirm bulletproof status one way or another.

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I was reading you town with that previous town slip but now you're blatantly coaching your scum partner.

Regardless, I've got a red check on the replacement slot.

VOTE: Shadow_step

Also I'm confirmed (not so) Innocent (mind like a) Child.

I mean really, in what possible world is that a serious claim? He wasn't caught by the "modconf" thing, he was literally making fun of you when you said you would keep your vote on him until mod would confirm him. (by asking you if that meant that your vote would stay on him all day).

There's no way that was a serious claim, it was just standard RVS crap. There is NO reason for scum to pull off such a terrible play, but on the other hand it could be WIFOM, so it should not be considered alignment indicative.

[Chip Butty]

Two strong links b/w ploben, Dunstrall, and duppin. The latter two hard-defending the former, and all three hard on karnos' case, and voting him. It IS a bit hard to imagine scum making their association so public this early on, I admit...

So you think mafia recruited the traitor?

Please don't put words in my mouth. What I said is what I said: There are strong associations between the three of you.

[duppin]

I didn't put words in your mouth, I asked you a question.