Open 644: Stack the Deck - Game Over

[ploben]

@Florestan
How do you feel about a Chip Butty lynch? No votes on him yet but I'd support it.

@BTD6 AND Shadow
Confident in a scum read somewhere to unpark your RVS vote? I think those are the only two RVS votes in play.

[Chip Butty]

#117 isn't awful. He acknowledges he didn't do it as a reaction test, but it ended up being one.

The point of an IC is it gets modconfirmed, how could he possibly "fail to notice" this? It was obvious he was joking, take a look at his posts:

@Bulletproof Ben
Please post picture of you wearing Kevlar vest with MS website in background with today's date and/or role PM to confirm bulletproof status one way or another.

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I was reading you town with that previous town slip but now you're blatantly coaching your scum partner.

Regardless, I've got a red check on the replacement slot.

VOTE: Shadow_step

Also I'm confirmed (not so) Innocent (mind like a) Child.

I mean really, in what possible world is that a serious claim? He wasn't caught by the "modconf" thing, he was literally making fun of you when you said you would keep your vote on him until mod would confirm him. (by asking you if that meant that your vote would stay on him all day).

There's no way that was a serious claim, it was just standard RVS crap. There is NO reason for scum to pull off such a terrible play, but on the other hand it could be WIFOM, so it should not be considered alignment indicative.

Interesting that you choose to stop quoting at that post. Let's see what ensues after that, shall we?

Also I'm confirmed (not so) Innocent (mind like a) Child.

Also I'm confirmed (not so) Innocent (mind like a) Child.

That's supposed to be Mod-confirmed, and I don't see the Mod confirming it yet. Until he does...

UNVOTE: VOTE: ploben

Mod must be a little backed up, he'll post it soon.

@Florestan
Do you find a player trying really hard in RVS is alignment indicative? If so, which alignment?

@Chip Butty
Does that mean your vote will stay on me the entire day?

@Chip Butty
Does that mean your vote will stay on me the entire day?

Nah, you'd have to be insane to fakeclaim that. Hmmmm, but insanity is NAI....

Oh, okay then: UNVOTE:

PS: Why 'the whole day'? Can't the Mod comfirm it at any time?

PS: Why 'the whole day'? Can't the Mod comfirm it at any time?

This was my attempt to soft claim and claim recind.

EBWOP
This was my attempt to soft claim a claim recind.

He says himself that his question about whether my vote would stay on him the whole day was an attempt to rescind his claim. He wasn't making fun, but trying to backpedal out of his claim after being caught.

[ploben]

Ugh. 196 is so bad. Now I'm paranoid about Chip being dumb town. If he's not posting against me he's responding to someone else about misrepping him or discrediting him. Good job muddying the waters Chip.

[Chip Butty]

I didn't put words in your mouth, I asked you a question.

No, the "So" at the start of your question means you are implyig that what I said "strong association between the three of you" implies what you said "Three scum". It doesn't.

But to answer your question directly, I have no idea if Mafia recruited or not. But I note strong associations between the three of you.

[duppin]

@Chip, this is how I understand it: He was "rescinding" his IC claim because you thought he was being serious. Him asking you if it would mean your vote on him would be on him throughout the whole day is basically him saying he won't ever be modconfirmed.

[duppin]

I didn't put words in your mouth, I asked you a question.

No, the "So" at the start of your question means you are implyig that what I said "strong association between the three of you" implies what you said "Three scum". It doesn't.

But to answer your question directly, I have no idea if Mafia recruited or not. But I note strong associations between the three of you.

No it doesn't mean that I am implying that was what you said, it means that it was the impression you gave me thus I asked you about it.

I think it's pretty weird to go off by assosication reads this early in the game and you seemed to pull out a world of three, so I was curious to hear if you believed all of us were mafia (in which case the traitor would've been recruited) or if you just thought two of us were.

[Chip Butty]

@Chip, this is how I understand it: He was "rescinding" his IC claim because you thought he was being serious. Him asking you if it would mean your vote on him would be on him throughout the whole day is basically him saying he won't ever be modconfirmed.

Fine, we read that sequence of posts differently. Your interpretation might even be correct but, on balance of probability as I see it, I'm sticking with mine for the time being.

Also, ploben's recent posts look like flailing and OMGUS, and aren't doing anything to lessen my suspicion of him.

[ploben]

Chip chip chip...
You say: IC is mod confirmed so until mod does you'll vote me.
I say: That means your vote will stay on me all day?

I'm admitting I know I'm not the IC because I know the mod will never come in and post I am the IC! That's why I chose those words.

You actually admit...

@Chip Butty
Does that mean your vote will stay on me the entire day?

Nah, you'd have to be insane to fakeclaim that. Hmmmm, but insanity is NAI....

Oh, okay then: UNVOTE:

[Chip Butty]

I didn't put words in your mouth, I asked you a question.

No, the "So" at the start of your question means you are implyig that what I said "strong association between the three of you" implies what you said "Three scum". It doesn't.

But to answer your question directly, I have no idea if Mafia recruited or not. But I note strong associations between the three of you.

No it doesn't mean that I am implying that was what you said, it means that it was the impression you gave me thus I asked you about it.

I think it's pretty weird to go off by assosication reads this early in the game and you seemed to pull out a world of three, so I was curious to hear if you believed all of us were mafia (in which case the traitor would've been recruited) or if you just thought two of us were.

[Chip Butty]

Chip chip chip...
You say: IC is mod confirmed so until mod does you'll vote me.
I say: That means your vote will stay on me all day?

I'm admitting I know I'm not the IC because I know the mod will never come in and post I am the IC! That's why I chose those words.

You actually admit...

@Chip Butty
Does that mean your vote will stay on me the entire day?

Nah, you'd have to be insane to fakeclaim that. Hmmmm, but insanity is NAI....

Oh, okay then: UNVOTE:

Yes, I get that you were rescinding your claim. I've already said that. But I believe you were rescinding your claim BECAUSE you were caught out. And yes, you'd have to be insane to fakeclaim IC - IF you were aware of the modconf. But my theory is that you hadn't noticed that (as I have said multiple times already).

[Chip Butty]

I didn't put words in your mouth, I asked you a question.

No, the "So" at the start of your question means you are implyig that what I said "strong association between the three of you" implies what you said "Three scum". It doesn't.

But to answer your question directly, I have no idea if Mafia recruited or not. But I note strong associations between the three of you.

No it doesn't mean that I am implying that was what you said, it means that it was the impression you gave me thus I asked you about it.

I think it's pretty weird to go off by assosication reads this early in the game and you seemed to pull out a world of three, so I was curious to hear if you believed all of us were mafia (in which case the traitor would've been recruited) or if you just thought two of us were.

Really, that post doesn't mean anything beynd what it says explicitly: There is a couple strong associations between you three.

[ploben]

Another paranoid thought:
If this is all just town vs town vs town vs town and mafia have daytalk they are sitting there saying "Don't jump in the middle of this and create associations, let town eat themselves alive here"

[ploben]

My feeling is if Chip is town he would seriously look back and maybe reconsider this whole case on me. Town doesn't have perfect info so town's game needs to be a game of reconsideration.

Scum Chip looks so much worse if he backs off now on his case on me. Especially since he has perfect info that I'm town and currently has Florestan and Karnos on me as well. It's 43% on the way to a D1 mislynch.

[Persivul]

Mod: What is your policy in the situation where you have a scum drop out in the setup phase? Do you insist on having a full complement of scum aboard before allowing the choice of scum role-mods, or not?

In that situation the remaining scum can unilaterally choose and declare the choice final while the replacement process is ongoing.

[karnos]

I have to say that calling for a quicklynch also pings me quite hard. What's the rush? Day lasts two weeks. We should use as much time as we can to maximize our chances of hitting scum D1.

Just letting you know that this line is way worse than anything I've said regarding a quicklynch

Please do explain the town incentive to quick lynch. Time is a resource. Even if you are 99.99% sure of your reads on the guy sitting in L-1, you should still hold off hammering as long as possible to potentially collect more information.

[karnos]

@Karnos, ignore Dunnstral for a moment please. Do you have reads on anyone else?

I do. But it's day one. All reads are rather flimsy at this point in the game. Merely speaking about them can cause the player in question to change posting style, so I don't see strong incentive to share. It also gives a roadmap for the scum, so they can kill the players who read them scummy and support the players who read them as townish... no thanks, I am not going to give out that information right now.

On a scale of 1-10, my scum read on ploben is maybe a 3 in confidence. My reads in general, for the rest of the players, are in the 0-2 confidence range, so ploben earns my vote.

[Scott Brosius]

The ploben IC stuff has given us interesting reactions that's for sure. The act itself is null.

VOTE: Ranger
Per my usual random vote policy of voting #1 on the player list.

Except...

Also I'm confirmed (not so) Innocent (mind like a) Child.

I don't see the mod confirmation. Claiming a role when no reason to claim it, and claiming a role that can be mod confirmed without the mod confirm? That seems scummy as hell to me.
UNVOTE: Ranger

VOTE: ploben

Out of all the votes, this is the softest push on ploben thus far and seems like scum pouncing on what they view as a potentially easy wagon.

Then dunn prods him about why he actually thinks its scummy and karnos ignores responding to some useless point from Chip. Alright reading further he does finally respond in 75, but still reading scum. The challenge ". Go ahead, lynch a townie because he isn't playing the same way you like to play. " doesn't read as genuine.

Vote: karnos

karnos/dunn does not feel like town/town back and forth. Noted in case one flips, subsequently I'm reading dunn as town.

Duppin thoughts on karnos? I see you're voting him from rvs, is that serious now?

Kind of. I think the reason for the push on ploben is ridiculous. This doesn't even have anything to do with my read on him, I just find it really questionable that people push on what was obviously a joke (no matter how you try to twist it) as a serious play, and even in that case I still don't understand how it'd be a scum play.

I'm leaning town on ploben. The only problem I had with his play was that he was implying it was a reaction test before, so I asked him about it but his answer was good. (#117)

Not really a fan of Ranger's readlist. Having both Dunnstral and ploben that low is a bit interesting. Care to explain the Dunnstral read?

You're kidding, right? #117 was awful.

And why are you insisting that ploben was joking when it is clear from his follow-up posts where he says the Mod will do the conf later, etc. that he wasn't? And it is straight after that that he starts to backpedal.

You still don't understand how it would be a scum play? Really? Let me spell it out once again: ploben fails to notice that IC is to be modconfed and claims it in such a way that he can back out with a "joke" defense if someone counterclaims. If nobody counterclaims then he gets stands to get some Town cred out of it. Later, when caught by the modconf thing, he tries that joke defense but it gets shot down by karnos, so he switches to "reaction test". When

that

inconsistency is pointed out, he switches again to the frankendefence in #117, a hybrid of the two.

How is he getting towncred out of it if nobody counters? That's exactly what happened in this game, ploben has hardly gotten towncred.

[karnos]

How is he getting towncred out of it if nobody counters? That's exactly what happened in this game, ploben has hardly gotten towncred.

If nobody countered? He would be seen as IC. He essentially countered himself with his 'it's just a prank bro' explanation.

Also, you and pretty much everyone else is ignoring the very real possibility that it was just a gambit to get the real IC to go ahead and mod confirm, so that scum can kill it on night 1.

[ploben]

How is he getting towncred out of it if nobody counters? That's exactly what happened in this game, ploben has hardly gotten towncred.

If nobody countered? He would be seen as IC. He essentially countered himself with his 'it's just a prank bro' explanation.

Also, you and pretty much everyone else is ignoring the very real possibility that it was just a gambit to get the real IC to go ahead and mod confirm, so that scum can kill it on night 1.

This doesn't make sense! Mod ALWAYS confirms innocent child day 1 so town has a head start to be able to trust them. Scum would know the IC right off the bat and already have that info for the possibility of a night kill.

Now I'm role fishing. This is so weak.

[karnos]

This doesn't make sense! Mod ALWAYS confirms innocent child day 1 so town has a head start to be able to trust them. .

You are so incredibly wrong. I'm shocked that you have such a strong opinion about this, when even you admit you have never played a game on this site with an IC before.

I haven't played a game with IC as a role in it here either, but when I joined the site I read through this game, just picked at random, and it included an Innocent Child played the more common way:

kids+with+guns

[karnos]

In particular, read this page if you read nothing else from that game:

Innocent Child Confirmed by Mod

[ploben]

The game I saw with Innocent Child PLUS my experience with live mafia is that Innocent Child is identified up front at the start of the game.

In the link you provided, it's true that the IC needs to PM the mod to confirm but that setup is in post 2 in that game saying that's how the IC is confirmed. Our game is different and coupled that with the game I saw on MS where IC was ID'ed by mod in the opening day 1 post.

[Florestan]

In particular, read this page if you read nothing else from that game:

Innocent Child Confirmed by Mod

Karnos you are just wrong here and you need to seriously let this point slide and actually talk about the game.

Ploben eh, I wouldn't really want anyone dead yet. I don't like a few people and I like a few people but that's about it.

[ploben]

Ploben eh, I wouldn't really want anyone dead yet. I don't like a few people and I like a few people but that's about it.

I think the closest to a lynch is Karnos at L-3 right now, far from dead.

Nothing wrong with putting pressure on via votes. But I understand your hesitation, it's only D2 IRL so it's early.

[karnos]

The game I saw with Innocent Child PLUS my experience with live mafia is that Innocent Child is identified up front at the start of the game.

In the link you provided, it's true that the IC needs to PM the mod to confirm but that setup is in post 2 in that game saying that's how the IC is confirmed. Our game is different and coupled that with the game I saw on MS where IC was ID'ed by mod in the opening day 1 post.

It just seems like you are using a lot of weird logic. It seems like you are shocked that people would misunderstand your "joke", because of course everyone would read how the role works. Except obviously you yourself haven't read the role in the wiki, as it clearly states the more common usage of it is mod confirmed via PM, not at the start of the game.

Misunderstanding the role is common, and you counted on the true IC to out himself based on your "joke".
*or*
Misunderstanding the role is uncommon, and you knew damn well how it works in other games, and you crafted your "joke" around that knowledge and expected to out the true IC.