Open 644: Stack the Deck - Game Over

[karnos]

OMGUS is not a scum tell no, I never claimed it was, but it isn't a town tell either. It is however a pretty bad play, as you're reads are obviously very biased.

I have no idea why you keep coming up with weird scenarios about what people are going to say tomorrow.

Really? You have no idea?

If I am lynched, I can't speak tomorrow, but my flip will speak for me. So I have to say these things now, so the scum responsible can be properly handled on day 2.

And really you are being a bit silly. OMGUS refers to voting. I didn't vote you, I just happen to read you as "probably scum".

[duppin]

Wrong, OMGUS does not have to refer to a vote no.

And yes really, I have no idea. It makes absolutely no sense for you to say this now. If you are town, saying "oh scum X is going to say Y tomorrow when I flip" serves no purpose at all.

[duppin]

My main issue with your play is that I do not think your reads are consistent at all. I think you're, um how do I put this.. tunneling I guess, on the people who are pushing on you. Basically you think anyone who pushes on you is scum and then you try to come up with a reason after, which leads to really weird and weak reads. I do not think your read on BDT makes sense given what you've said and done this game. You seem to imply BDT and Ploben are scumbuddies, while saying that BDT would just lean back as scum as long as it is heading towards a town lynch. It seems more like you're just getting frustrated over the votes on you.

I'd like you to consider a different world for a moment. Imagine you and ploben are both town. Thoughts?

[karnos]

I see, but if you think this is the case why do you think ploben is scum? Wouldn't ploben have to be town for this to make sense, seeing as you are currenly tied at 4 votes?

Are you trying to say that scum.BTD wouldn't vote me if ploben is also scum? Why not? I am truly confused by this question of yours.

You claimed that scum.BTD doesn't need to get involved in the game as long as the lynch is heading towards a town, so if you do not think he has been involved in this game wouldn't that mean that ploben was town as well? Seeing as the lynch was heading towards either you or ploben.

Had to make sure you aren't a newbie, because it seems painfully obvious to me.

To hunt scum, think like scum. If you were scum BTD, and the vote was fairly close between your scum partner ploben and a townie karnos, what would you do? Vote karnos in a safe manner, sit back and see what happens? Or would you get super aggressive against me and post even more rhetoric about why I am certainly scum? I am not calling BTD stupid. If he is scum, as I suspect, he knows I am town. He doesn't want to come out against me too heavy, or it will reflect poorly when I flip town.

When I spoke of his game involvement, I meant something more than tunneling. In his town game he votes and unvotes and switched lynch targets many times. Often he votes for "pressure" to get answers in which case he doesn't even want to lynch his vote target. In this game, I see none of that. He is planting a vote at the safest point to do so with the intention of making sure I get lynched without drawing a lot of attention to himself.

[duppin]

But that means that your read does not make sense, because in that scenario you're proposing now the lynch was not heading towards a townie (if ploben is scum).

Basically it sounds like you think BTD is scum no matter what ploben's alignment is, so why isn't your vote on him?

[karnos]

I'd like you to consider a different world for a moment. Imagine you and ploben are both town. Thoughts?

Oh, I have. In the "ploben is town" scenario, Dunnstral is scum, pushing the wagon and trying to make sure at one of us gets lynched, which leads him nicely into a day 2 lynch of the other one. BTD scum still works fine in that scenario. I would prefer ploben to be town, because I am afraid if dunnstral is actually town he is going to lead to a very quick town loss, but sometimes that is just the luck of the draw.

However, ploben has just continually posted his "jokes" and fake logic that just keeps reaffirming to me that he is indeed scum, town wouldn't be so obtuse.

Wrong, OMGUS does not have to refer to a vote no.

Well, then you are just using your own made-up definition. I guess it can mean whatever you want it to mean if you aren't going to go by what the wiki says.

[duppin]

No I am not using my own made-up definition. You only have one vote, obviously OMGUS doesn't only apply to your vote. Doesn't matter what the MS wiki says lol, what a useless discussion.

[ploben]

No I am not using my own made-up definition. You only have one vote, obviously OMGUS doesn't only apply to your vote. Doesn't matter what the MS wiki says lol,

what a useless discussion.

I feel like Karnos has been leading a lot of those D1. The water is getting very muddy.

[BTD6_maker]

Before I voted Karnos, he didn't say anything much about me. After I voted Karnos, he started tunnelling and strong scumreading me. What caused such a sudden change in reads and attitude?

[karnos]

Basically it sounds like you think BTD is scum no matter what ploben's alignment is, so why isn't your vote on him?

If I vote BTD, it's a useless gesture, he has no votes on him.

By voting ploben, there might be a 50/50 chance of the lynch going to me or him. By voting BTD, it's closer to 100% going to me. I am town, so 100% chance of lynching town is worse than a 50% chance of lynching "probably scum".

[karnos]

No I am not using my own made-up definition. You only have one vote, obviously OMGUS doesn't only apply to your vote. Doesn't matter what the MS wiki says lol, what a useless discussion.

Really, you are. OMGUS is when you react to someone voting you by voting them back. That is what it means.

BTD, I didn't offer reads on *anyone* except ploben until recently.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p7977876

[Florestan]

To hunt scum, think like scum. If you were scum BTD, and the vote was fairly close between your scum partner ploben and a townie karnos, what would you do? Vote karnos in a safe manner, sit back and see what happens? Or would you get super aggressive against me and post even more rhetoric about why I am certainly scum? I am not calling BTD stupid. If he is scum, as I suspect, he knows I am town. He doesn't want to come out against me too heavy, or it will reflect poorly when I flip town.

For the record if I were scum with Ploben I would definitely go super aggro on Karnos.

I really hate nearly everthing Karnos said, VOTE: Karnos

[Persivul]

Note that per the rules votes must be at the beginning of the line to count - makes it easier for me to do VCs. Thanks.

[ploben]

Alright Scott, put your vote back on Karnos and let's get intent.

[karnos]

Alright Scott, put your vote back on Karnos and let's get intent.

In before "i was just joking, obviously we should have waited before hammering"

[ploben]

Alright Scott, put your vote back on Karnos and let's get intent.

In before "i was just joking, obviously we should have waited before hammering"

You're funny. We would have made a good scumteam.

[Florestan]

Working on a wall but I will say that if Karnos gets put to L-1 I am unvoting because I don't trust this town.

[ploben]

Working on a wall but I will say that if Karnos gets put to L-1 I am unvoting because I don't trust this town.

Dafuq?

[Chip Butty]

@Shadow
Alpaca could possibly be the lurking scum this game. You seemed to be convinced about Karnos with the invite unvote event. Is the Alpaca case stronger in your mind or is there something else that's pushing you to vote Alpaca?

@Karnos
I'd rather not spend anymore time on this as you're not bringing anything new to the table. Plus I'd rather not give scum a roadmap by responding. You should understand that.

My reads. I'd rather not post this, but I have to admit it looks like I might get lynched, best to get the information out so that town can gain something from my death.

Nice AtE

@Shadow
Alpaca could possibly be the lurking scum this game. You seemed to be convinced about Karnos with the invite unvote event. Is the Alpaca case stronger in your mind or is there something else that's pushing you to vote Alpaca?

Case on Alpaca is stronger I feel. Regardless I want the lynch to be between Alpaca and Karnos today. So more votes on Alp would be good.

Karnos is L-3 though. You're currently the only one on Alpaca.

No I am not using my own made-up definition. You only have one vote, obviously OMGUS doesn't only apply to your vote. Doesn't matter what the MS wiki says lol,

what a useless discussion.

I feel like Karnos has been leading a lot of those D1. The water is getting very muddy.

Alright Scott, put your vote back on Karnos and let's get intent.

Working on a wall but I will say that if Karnos gets put to L-1 I am unvoting because I don't trust this town.

Dafuq?

Look, for the sake of argument, let's agree that ploben WAS joking with that crack about being IC. I still don't like his reactions since, and this latest string of posts seems to just be egging people on to a karnos vote without supplying additional reasons for that vote. I don't trust it, and I think Florestan has made the prudent move in unvoting for now. That last post by ploben "Dafuq?" looks super scummy, as if he is dismayed that his target has slipped away from the gallows just when it looked like he might be lynched.

I suggest caution. Plenty of time until dayend.

[ploben]

That last post by ploben "Dafuq?" looks super scummy, as if he is dismayed that his target has slipped away from the gallows just when it looked like he might be lynched.

No, not even close. Nice misrep. Try again.

[Chip Butty]

Clarification: Florestan didn't actually unvote, but said he will if karnos goes to L-1. Same sentiment applies, though. I'm upgrading my read of Florestan on the basis of this.

[Chip Butty]

That last post by ploben "Dafuq?" looks super scummy, as if he is dismayed that his target has slipped away from the gallows just when it looked like he might be lynched.

No, not even close. Nice misrep. Try again.

Misrep? Okay, pray tell what did you mean by "Dafuq?"?

[PantherPunt]

Pretty sure Dunn is town here.

I can't tell if this is buddying from scum or what since you were clear last game and joined in way late and wrote big walls of text for everyone's alignment. It just seems really weird to see you just drop a one-liner "X is Y"

It's probably just that we're still in early early game but still I don't know if I expected like analysis on the gamestate from you or what

Thoughts on Karnos?

continue to see you mindmelding with me as I catch up.

florestan for sure pinging me out due to what I'd call a 'vast tonal gulf.' she's posting nothing like that last game we were in with her. different situation, but still, here she is giving no reason for anything. there she was all about "justify your read"

[PantherPunt]

We can only lynch one scum per day, why are you so unsatisfied with the one I found? One interesting difference between us: I know your vote on my is against town- I know for a fact your scum hunting efforts have failed you. On the other hand, you can't know ploben is town. Either you are town reading him as town, in which case you could be wrong, or you and him are both scum and you are lying. I doubt the later case, but I certainly don't doubt the former as a possibility.

karnos - You're talking to Dunnstral here as if you KNOW he is town.

Not only do you start by saying his scum hunting efforts have failed (implying he is town and scumhunting)

but then the possibilities you list are
1) Dunn is town incorrectly reading ploben as town
2) Dunn is scum with ploben as scum, but you doubt it

Why couldn't Dunn be scum and is giving a correct TMI-read on a town!ploben?

If you're going to tell Dunn he could be wrong, why aren't you imagining all potential worlds, including the one where you could be wrong?

[ploben]

That last post by ploben "Dafuq?" looks super scummy, as if he is dismayed that his target has slipped away from the gallows just when it looked like he might be lynched.

No, not even close. Nice misrep. Try again.

Misrep? Okay, pray tell what did you mean by "Dafuq?"?

No I'd rather you continue to weave your tale and interpretations for all to see.