New York 195: Adventure Mafia - Game over!

[copper223]

There also is a possible Titus Magma connection there, given she claimed to have shot TBG, could be they thought TBG would still look scummy today and they could brush it away as a town kill, especially given Titus's tunnel on him and Persi.

[Shaziro]

Titus claimed to have shot TBG?

[copper223]

P.s. What would your reaction be if I shot TBG?

She hinted at it.

[Shaziro]

That seemed more like a reaction test to me. Interesting.

[Aneninen]

I am trying to make sense of that anomaly in your reads.

Anomaly?
Here's the anomaly if you call it so.
I've never agreed her read on you and I didn't understand her hard-town read on me Yesterday. Both of them may have come from town but from scum too. I don't get her change on me because of the Nightkills and I want to see her explanation.

Regarding the PT, as I already explained, if there is one it's Magma, there are some things that point at him being town and some scum (those I already mentioned, he claimed to be vetting me to make use of the PT but then had a terrible connection (which I believe) but didn't even ask me a question in the post he made, he also claimed to be scumreading TBG and shotty, that shows little read adaptation after the NK cause it would imply TBG WK'd his CW as scum and that would be a really weird move.

I don't think you or Liger are scum. Although we definitely need more content from Liger. So, if there's a scum in the Hood, it must be Magna.

P.s. What would your reaction be if I shot TBG?

She hinted at it.

That seemed more like a reaction test to me. Interesting.

The latter one is more likely.

[Shaziro]

I just can't see Titus ever asking people for their opinions of her actions if she actually did them. I don't think she needs the validation and I think she would have better, non-self-outing methods of finding out.

[Nosferatu]

In my opinion, 1408 was the worst post from him. He DID translate my terrible drunkpost (and assuming he's neither German nor Dutch, it must have taken serious effort!). But he did NEVER draw any conclusion out of it! Even if he had a scumread on me at that time... That's something scums often do when they don't know whether a wagon will gain momentum or not.

It's all that duolingo man. I'm apparantly 26% fluent in german thanks to it

So help me get more out of that slot by pressuring it with a vote, Kop doesn't seem to volunteer much information on his own.

441 – A lazy jump on Seth. (Mind that he posted that he hadn't done reading – but the rest of that "reading" had never arrived.)

1255 – I called it a Beetlejuice. Yeah, I may have been wrong about it, but his REACTION to that was terrible. 1263:

"I don't like how he painted my last post as a Beetlejuice tell

when persivul just ninjad me

."

– Most players tell being ninja-ed instantly or not mention it at all. So, this sounded like a nervous explanation for something which might have disappeared in the thread later.

Back to 1263 – He shadowed my wagon when it existed and there had been a chance for it gaining momentum.

1375 – Accusing Persivul performing a Chainsaw looks horrible now, knowing Persivul was town.

In my opinion, 1408 was the worst post from him. He DID translate my terrible drunkpost (and assuming he's neither German nor Dutch, it must have taken serious effort!). But he did NEVER draw any conclusion out of it! Even if he had a scumread on me at that time... That's something scums often do when they don't know whether a wagon will gain momentum or not.

1896 –

"if the mod wanted a group of all town with a PT, he'd make them masons."

, about the Neighbourhood. As far as I can remember, at that time the "there must be a scum in the hood" topic had been emerged. His logic was bad in itself, but if I'm right about him and he's scum, we should consider the possibility of an all-town Neighbourhood. (I've seen things like that, link will be provided if needed.)

And I've already talked about eg. his 2274; 2275 was WTF (filling out Nahdia's list), and his whole interaction with Shaziro makes him look even worse.

VOTE: Nosferatu

I don't like this case because of the sheer fact that it's so easy to make.

[Nosferatu]

brb

could you claim that hood you slipped way back when? It's bothering me now.

[copper223]

Anomaly?

Die Besonderheit ist dass Du Persi als Bürger und TBG als Mafioso gelesen hast.

The anomaly I am talking about is that you were reading TBG as scum but Persi as town.

[copper223]

The hypothesis being: it's unnatural so maybe you didn't get to coordinate the read switch like the rest of your team cause you were V/LA.

[copper223]

I don't like this case because of the sheer fact that it's so easy to make.

Being scummy is not a town tell.

[Nosferatu]

I don't like this case because of the sheer fact that it's so easy to make.

Being scummy is not a town tell.

I don't follow?

[copper223]

@Nos
In what way is Anen's case easy to make?

[Nosferatu]

@Nos
In what way is Anen's case easy to make?

ok

1.

"lazy attack on seth"

- lazy because?? probably because no immediate explanation or follow up. Something I do not do regularly. (see davesaz vote in game shop mafia)
*also I did finish reading, but I didn't make any conclusion. I don't usually make long catchup posts but I don't remember having to catch up in any recently completed games so idk.

2.

"reaction to beetlejuice was terrible"

- nervous why?? Persivul posted less than a minute before me. The likelihood of me responding that quickly to being mentioned is infinitesimal. Totally reasonable to be suspicious of someone questioning your alignment off of a pure chance occurrence.

3. There's nothing of mine in 1263. I posted once on the page and I asked for explanation on the TBG wagon.

4.

"accusing persivul of chainsawing is horrible based on his town flip"

- why? With this logic, accusing persivul of doing anything scum would do is terrible when that's simply not true. Both town and scum were on that wagon, and to make any accusation scummy is illogical.

5.

"didn't make conclusions from drunk post"

- apparently I was supposed to be able to interpret a drunkpost in a foreign language and make a conclusion as to his alignment from it. It was barely coherent German in the first place, how would a foreigner such as myself or anyone for that matter be able to draw anything from that. No one else did. Surely someone else scum read him as well, but none are held to this standard.

6.

"his neighborhood logic doesn't make sense"

- This isn't a scummy point but it also doesn't make sense. How does my opinion regarding neighborhoods (might you I'm not a neighbor) pave way to the possibility of an all-town neighborhood?

7.

"whole interactions with shaziro make him look even worse"

- not really. I mean sure you could say I was being anti-town; I really could've just done the world a favor and dug up a game, but I didn't. That's not scummy though. I'm not pushing any sort of agenda with that, I'm just being obtuse.

All of these points are either shoddy or are things other people have noted before. The case is just an appeal to as many people as possible. Everything that hasn't been already put forth by someone else is half-baked.

[Nosferatu]

*mind you I'm not a neighbor

[Ircher]

Firstly, before catching-up.

I know it's my fault that I hadn't mentioned it before it happened, but we shouldn't ever have lynched Persivul. It should have been a red flag that there had been NO real counter at all. In short, we had a lynch which gave us no VCA-information at all. Scums may or may not have been on the wagon and because of the flip noone stands out as a possibility at all. And I, personally, had never seen that horribly-strong Persivul case.
I know that I'm terrible now. If I had had more time, I would have pointed this out in time.

What's no counter got to do with anything? Besides, there were counters throughout the day. In particular, Kill and Brawl, both of whom were town. Finally, the wagon flipped town so this post seems ex post facto rather than genuine.

[copper223]

5. "didn't make conclusions from drunk post" - apparently I was supposed to be able to interpret a drunkpost in a foreign language and make a conclusion as to his alignment from it. It was barely coherent German in the first place, how would a foreigner such as myself or anyone for that matter be able to draw anything from that. No one else did. Surely someone else scum read him as well, but none are held to this standard.

It might just be you have a play-stile I'm just not familiar with, his point here is that you took the time to translate the post, which implies a certain level of focus and effort (presumably you are looking for something alignment indicative, right?) but then did nothing with it, why not ask to clarify if it didn't make much sense?

He then claims you might be preparing the ground for a push on him, that I don't see, it's either town paranoia or him trying to mimic it.

It's the same kind of tell I had on you earlier about Ircher's statistics, some scum players focus on these minutiae cause they already know the alignment of the player they are interacting with and come up with these alignment neutral statements to try to appear busy or to avoid lying.

[Egg]

Ok, because I'm 30+ pages behind, I'll minimize what I comment on as much as possible. A lot of it is outdated anyway and I'll get in short bursts as often as possible which may be as little as a page or two but will add up. Or at least that's the plan.

Page 65:
Copper, you asked me what happens if there isn't exactly one scum in the hood. Well, then my guess is wrong. If I was positive I was right, I'd have voted you right after the hood was outted. You haven't really been scummy though.

Page 66:
Zakk, if Titus was scum with daytalk who already knew who the neighbors were, she'd still be hiding that info until Liger claimed. So faking a reads change isn'timpossible. I mean, I'm not saying that's what happened but it's not a good reason for you to unvote.

Titus, I have to point out that you called me out for not being able to agree with your reads and mentioned that you hadn't switched to Persivul yet ONLY because of deadline. You were voting Brawl. Persivul and Brawl were town. I'll give you that I was wrong about killthestory, but maybe it's time to give some of my reads a chance? I still like Ircher, Sethslot (Kop), and heurslot (shaziro) for scum pending my catch up. I also might be able to agree on Copper but that's only because of the neighborhood so that's a meh choice.

[Nosferatu]

5. "didn't make conclusions from drunk post" - apparently I was supposed to be able to interpret a drunkpost in a foreign language and make a conclusion as to his alignment from it. It was barely coherent German in the first place, how would a foreigner such as myself or anyone for that matter be able to draw anything from that. No one else did. Surely someone else scum read him as well, but none are held to this standard.

It might just be you have a play-stile I'm just not familiar with, his point here is that you took the time to translate the post, which implies a certain level of focus and effort (presumably you are looking for something alignment indicative, right?) but then did nothing with it, why not ask to clarify if it didn't make much sense?

I don't factor drunkposts into my reads of people. I occasionally do make reads on semantic issues (see performer vote in Mini 1740), and drunk posts are usually good for that since people are usually really honest when drunk and slip up, but the original text was in German so there's no point. Translating that post was a fun little exercise to me.

It's the same kind of tell I had on you earlier about Ircher's statistics, some scum players focus on these minutiae cause they already know the alignment of the player they are interacting with and come up with these alignment neutral statements to try to appear busy or to avoid lying.

As scum I'm usually the opposite; I focus on the grand view. My town game alternates between grand view and innocuous detail (see Red Neighboorhood mafia).

[drmyshottyizsik]

*checks in*
so zakk and titus and copper all still breathing?
ok.
*checks out*

[Lowell]

@zakk, your longer "OMG that wasn't mindless chatter" OMGUS post looks even more like mindless chatter than the previous one did.

@shaz, you got pretty excited for a minute there when you thought someone had claimed something. Anything else you're interested in?

[Nosferatu]

5. "didn't make conclusions from drunk post" - apparently I was supposed to be able to interpret a drunkpost in a foreign language and make a conclusion as to his alignment from it. It was barely coherent German in the first place, how would a foreigner such as myself or anyone for that matter be able to draw anything from that. No one else did. Surely someone else scum read him as well, but none are held to this standard.

It might just be you have a play-stile I'm just not familiar with, his point here is that you took the time to translate the post, which implies a certain level of focus and effort (presumably you are looking for something alignment indicative, right?) but then did nothing with it, why not ask to clarify if it didn't make much sense?

I

normally

don't factor drunkposts into my reads of people. I occasionally do make reads on semantic issues (see performer vote in Mini 1740), and drunk posts are

can be

good for that since people are usually really honest when drunk and slip up, but the original text was in German so there's no point. Translating that post was a fun little exercise to me.

It's the same kind of tell I had on you earlier about Ircher's statistics, some scum players focus on these minutiae cause they already know the alignment of the player they are interacting with and come up with these alignment neutral statements to try to appear busy or to avoid lying.

As scum I'm usually the opposite; I focus on the grand view. My town game alternates between grand view and innocuous detail (see Red Neighboorhood mafia).

Top half didn't make sense and quote was broken

[Aneninen]

OFF

It's all that duolingo man. I'm apparantly 26% fluent in german thanks to it

Die Besonderheit ist dass Du Persi als Bürger und TBG als Mafioso gelesen hast.

Someone should mod a game in German. I'd really like to practize my German too. You know, there's always room for improvement.

ON

I don't like this case because of the sheer fact that it's so easy to make.

Whut?

The anomaly I am talking about is that you were reading TBG as scum but Persi as town.

The hypothesis being: it's unnatural so maybe you didn't get to coordinate the read switch like the rest of your team cause you were V/LA.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're scumreading me because you're afraid of the possibility that I'm scum. (Maybe because of JK9. But I'm not as good as you think, regardless of my alignment.)
Or at least, you should consider this: I'm town, I have my own reads and I don't have to coordinate them with anyone else's.

Spoiler: Nosferatu's post

1.

"lazy attack on seth"

- lazy because?? probably because no immediate explanation or follow up. Something I do not do regularly. (see davesaz vote in game shop mafia)
*also I did finish reading, but I didn't make any conclusion. I don't usually make long catchup posts but I don't remember having to catch up in any recently completed games so idk.

2.

"reaction to beetlejuice was terrible"

- nervous why?? Persivul posted less than a minute before me. The likelihood of me responding that quickly to being mentioned is infinitesimal. Totally reasonable to be suspicious of someone questioning your alignment off of a pure chance occurrence.

3. There's nothing of mine in 1263. I posted once on the page and I asked for explanation on the TBG wagon.

4.

"accusing persivul of chainsawing is horrible based on his town flip"

- why? With this logic, accusing persivul of doing anything scum would do is terrible when that's simply not true. Both town and scum were on that wagon, and to make any accusation scummy is illogical.

5.

"didn't make conclusions from drunk post"

- apparently I was supposed to be able to interpret a drunkpost in a foreign language and make a conclusion as to his alignment from it. It was barely coherent German in the first place, how would a foreigner such as myself or anyone for that matter be able to draw anything from that. No one else did. Surely someone else scum read him as well, but none are held to this standard.

6.

"his neighborhood logic doesn't make sense"

- This isn't a scummy point but it also doesn't make sense. How does my opinion regarding neighborhoods (might you I'm not a neighbor) pave way to the possibility of an all-town neighborhood?

7.

"whole interactions with shaziro make him look even worse"

- not really. I mean sure you could say I was being anti-town; I really could've just done the world a favor and dug up a game, but I didn't. That's not scummy though. I'm not pushing any sort of agenda with that, I'm just being obtuse.

All of these points are either shoddy or are things other people have noted before. The case is just an appeal to as many people as possible. Everything that hasn't been already put forth by someone else is half-baked.

1. It was lazy. You just jumped on the wagon you thought it had been moving. Also, you finished reading but didn't draw conclusions. Yeah, sounds legit.
2. Beetlejuice IS a tell. I repeat: I may have been wrong about it, but the fact that you mentioned later that you'd been ninja-ed, THAT made me think that you'd got nervous.
3. Sorry, misspelled. 1362, not 1263.
4. Persivul was town, therefore he could Chainsaw no one. Got it?
5. So, you translated my drunkpost only for fun? (According to your answer to Copper which took place later.) Huh.
6. I may have phrased it poorly, but I said this: if you flip scum, we may have an all-town Neighbourhood, because you hinted that "why not Masons" thing.
7. Huh? Are you saying that you were anti-town but not scummy?
+1 Since I was missing for a long time Yesterday, yeah, there could be points having pointed out by others. Do you really think it makes my case invalid?

What's no counter got to do with anything? Besides, there were counters throughout the day. In particular, Kill and Brawl, both of whom were town. Finally, the wagon flipped town so this post seems ex post facto rather than genuine.

By the time the Persivul-wagon gained momentum there had been no counters

matching

his wagon.
I understand your point of view, though, I would find a post like that scummy too if it had come from a player who had produced

nothing else

.

*checks in*
so zakk and titus and copper all still breathing?
ok.
*checks out*

What do you think of Nosferatu?

@shaz, you got pretty excited for a minute there when you thought someone had claimed something. Anything else you're interested in?

Hmmmmmmmmmm...

[drmyshottyizsik]

I think nos is ok, really nothing hugely scummy.

[SirCakez]

bump