Open 644: Stack the Deck - Game Over

[Florestan]

Panther you need to open brackets before you close them.

[karnos]

Karnos trust me you didn't just nail the scum team based off of that.

As I said, I hope not. But please, give me some more useful input. This isn't all about the IC claim.

Please offer a theory as to why the dunnstral.duppin.ploben group is, as a whole, critical of anyone outside who comments on them being town, yet never criticizes each other?

[Florestan]

because that just happens sometimes and they all think each other are town.

[PantherPunt]

Panther you need to open brackets before you close them.

lol I think?

(there is no "rant" bbcode. that was parlance for "end rant")

[PantherPunt]

the fact that others pointed out the fallacy of her shadowguy read (the only one she's given) yet she decided not to respond to it at all is definitely interesting

This is also wrong.

I did respond.

I posted that on page one, my reason for townreading Shadow was twofold.
First, the moderror argument.

Second, because of 17 by ploben.

The former, by the mod himself, was proven to be untrue.
The latter still holds, and Shadow's play since then has cemented his spot as a townread anyway.
I have stated all of this before; none of this is new.
I can explain at any time, and probably soon, I will. (Depending on my mood.)

So your shadow read was/is based on ploben flipping scum, because ploben's vote in 17 didn't look like a vote on a scumbuddy. Do I have to tell you how bad it is to make a town read based on a scumread pre-flip?

You also say "Shadow's play since then has cemented his spot as a townread anyways." Point me to the posts because I haven't seen anything that makes me townread him. You said you can explain at any time...so I'll wait.

You spent a significant amount word count on Longnight. Possibly more words than you've spent on giving reads or asking questions about this game. Seems like a way to artificially bolster you're 'contribution'/volume without doing any solving.

[PantherPunt]

(448 is also a scum post, but I'll get into the why later. Got other things I need to do at this moment.)

lol ya me trying to diffuse an argument that's been nothing but repetition of the same points and clogging up the thread is objectively scummy. can't wait to hear your explanation

[PantherPunt]

For Shadow_step, the initial reason I had my read has been explained. But as for why it remains even after the mod has explicitly said my reason was wrong...well, for a start, I haven't liked any of the pressure on him.

But further, his entrance into the game, 33, is something that I currently believe is something he'd be more likely to do as town than as scum, albeit only just. I really liked his inquiry towards Dunnstral in 65. Where the townread REALLY kicks in though is with 231: that is

exactly

what my issue was with Alpaca. As in, while I'll be restating it when I get to Alpaca, Shadow_step perfectly vocalized my feelings before I had actually vocalized my feelings. (This is the advantage to my readslists. He had no way of knowing that was my reasoning.) There was suspicion on ploben. Alpaca linked to something, attempting to defuse suspicion somewhat, but did literally nothing else

at all

. 294 is a great continuation of the Alpaca case as well. Additionally, while he acknowledges the scumminess behind karnos, he does

not

pursue him, instead asking for support on Alpaca.

This is why he's town. He's doing his own thing, and doing it very,

very

well.

There is a disconnect here that you need to address.

You say 231 is "exactly what your issue is with Alpaca."

However, shadow is saying that Alpaca is reading ploben as town because Alpaca is scum who knows ploben is town, and Alpaca is trying to get some credit for it when/should he flip town (this is further reinforced in 294, which you call a great continutation of the Alpaca case).

But you think ploben is lockscum.

So do you agree with Shadow's assessment in 231 and 294, or do you think ploben is scum?

[PantherPunt]

I'm going to skip Chip Butty unless there's actually a serious need for it. I believe he's mostly townread. I mean, I could share

my

reasons for townreading him, but not much of a point doing so when everyone is townreading him.

Instead,

the reason Florestan immediately became a townread is because of 20: THIS is a reason why ploben became a scumread.

I liked the follow-through in 24 as well. 52 was an excellent vote, following through and making a valid point about ploben. I also like the tone behind 80: this isn't scum trying to be helpful without being helpful (I'll show you an example of

that

later!), this is town annoyed and calling people out. I also like 84. 163 is a fairly decent first-time encounter with me, but I really liked 165. Florestan themselves points out how the effort behind 284 was town, but some particular highlights include the BTD6 read and the ploben read. 368 and 403 also read as town ways to handle their vote. Then, we get 451, which is an excellent question.

All-in-all, Florestan is really, really town, even if Florestan's current reads kind-of suck.

I mean...ploben wasn't try-harding in RVS. He had just made several joke posts prior to post 20. Why was THAT the reason ploben became a scumread?

[PantherPunt]

For people saying I've done nothing but defend myself, they're utter hypocrites if they haven't noticed that Alpaca was doing basically the same thing, which you can see in 270. More defense in 273. 281 is worthless, and 304 is more defense.

ummm...they wouldn't be hypocrites (that would mean all they've done is defend themselves). Who said this by the way? I don't recall seeing anyone say you've only defended yourself so I'd appreciate if you could point those people out.

But I'm more interested in the fact that you're calling these people "hypocrites" (which you think means they didn't apply the same standard to Alpaca) because that means that you're giving some credence to the idea that you've only defended yourself, while calling Alpaca scum for it. What's up with that?

[Persivul]

AlpacaAlpaca has requested replacement.

[PantherPunt]

Has anyone read in such a way they were looking for potential signaling from traitor to goons? I'm mad that I didn't bc I was completely backwards on how traitor works. Where I play, the pack knows who the loner is, but not vice versa. Here, it's the opposite.

Moot if recruitment happened. This isn't a "townslip" as I'm fully capable of making this post as scum. I really just want to know if anyone was looking out for it or thinks they saw something resembling signaling somewhere.

[PantherPunt]

(Signaling happens where I'm from bc often times the loner has a vig and if they target a bro they join the pack). As I continue to think about it, it's a weird dynamic. If they didn't recruit, the goons need to be careful that they don't lynch the traitor so there definitely is some semblance of motive for the traitor to try to tell the goons "don't push me bro."

I'd just recruit to eliminate that. I'd probably recruit and assign a JOAT and a rolecop. Because YOLO don't be a puss etc

[Chip Butty]

You gonna delete my ninja postin?

Here's a thought that I would like some comment on: Ranger as JOAT. Yes, my RVS joke again, but not joking so much this time. In fact, not joking.

This post from Ranger containing the possible codeword "ninja" appeared just six minutes after the OP. That is, when the phase 1 role-PMs were circulating, but BEFORE scum decided which extra powers they wanted and whether to recruit.

So, that kills it, right?

That's what I was thinking up until recently. But, consider this: Scum role mods are CHOSEN, while Town ones are RANDOM. That means that, even though the Mafia discussion about whether to recruit and what powers to get was still in the future when this post appeared, scum!Ranger could be virtually certain of getting JOAT simply by telling her scummate she wanted it. That means she could signal early with confidence. The timestamps turn out to be irrelevant. Why signal? Because she intended to not recruit the traitor, and thus limit the number of additional powers Town would get.

Thoughts?

[Chip Butty]

I guess now we'll have people popping up to insist "It was just an RVS joke!"

[Chip Butty]

All I want to establish at this point is that it is a POSSIBILITY. I'm not saying (yet) that this is actually what happened.

[PantherPunt]

You gonna delete my ninja postin?

Here's a thought that I would like some comment on: Ranger as JOAT. Yes, my RVS joke again, but not joking so much this time. In fact, not joking.

This post from Ranger containing the possible codeword "ninja" appeared just six minutes after the OP. That is, when the phase 1 role-PMs were circulating, but BEFORE scum decided which extra powers they wanted and whether to recruit.

So, that kills it, right?

That's what I was thinking up until recently. But, consider this: Scum role mods are CHOSEN, while Town ones are RANDOM. That means that, even though the Mafia discussion about whether to recruit and what powers to get was still in the future when this post appeared, scum!Ranger could be virtually certain of getting JOAT simply by telling her scummate she wanted it. That means she could signal early with confidence. The timestamps turn out to be irrelevant. Why signal? Because she intended to not recruit the traitor, and thus limit the number of additional powers Town would get.

Thoughts?

It's a townie-ass tinfoil.

I found myself wondering why Ranger even made that post.

@Ranger

why did you make that post and what does it mean?

I have thoughts but I'll let Ranger respond to that. And all the other posts I directed her way before I weigh in on this.

[PantherPunt]

It seems Ranger has a posting schedule of roughly 5PM EST to 5AM EST with the brunt of it falling in the middle to latter middle portion of that range. Unfortunately, that's when I'm usually away. I may try to watch for her to come on so I can get some real-time interaction going. That's when I best read people.

She's showed me some town-indicative things (which I have some reservations about because they only came after I called her out and got some people slightly nodding with my sentiment that she's done nothing), but obviously there are some things I didn't like as I've asked her to clarify some things that don't make sense wrt her having a town (read: genuine solving) perspective.

[ploben]

You gonna delete my ninja postin?

Here's a thought that I would like some comment on: Ranger as JOAT. Yes, my RVS joke again, but not joking so much this time. In fact, not joking.

This post from Ranger containing the possible codeword "ninja" appeared just six minutes after the OP. That is, when the phase 1 role-PMs were circulating, but BEFORE scum decided which extra powers they wanted and whether to recruit.

So, that kills it, right?

That's what I was thinking up until recently. But, consider this: Scum role mods are CHOSEN, while Town ones are RANDOM. That means that, even though the Mafia discussion about whether to recruit and what powers to get was still in the future when this post appeared, scum!Ranger could be virtually certain of getting JOAT simply by telling her scummate she wanted it. That means she could signal early with confidence. The timestamps turn out to be irrelevant. Why signal? Because she intended to not recruit the traitor, and thus limit the number of additional powers Town would get.

Thoughts?

I would like to comment on this after Ranger responds to it.

[ploben]

And now because of that, Chip, I'm leaning town for you.

[Persivul]

KuroiXHF replaces AlpacaAlpaca

[ploben]

Welcome KuroiXHF!

[ploben]

You gonna delete my ninja postin?

Here's a thought that I would like some comment on: Ranger as JOAT. Yes, my RVS joke again, but not joking so much this time. In fact, not joking.

This post from Ranger containing the possible codeword "ninja" appeared just six minutes after the OP. That is, when the phase 1 role-PMs were circulating, but BEFORE scum decided which extra powers they wanted and whether to recruit.

So, that kills it, right?

That's what I was thinking up until recently. But, consider this: Scum role mods are CHOSEN, while Town ones are RANDOM. That means that, even though the Mafia discussion about whether to recruit and what powers to get was still in the future when this post appeared, scum!Ranger could be virtually certain of getting JOAT simply by telling her scummate she wanted it. That means she could signal early with confidence. The timestamps turn out to be irrelevant. Why signal? Because she intended to not recruit the traitor, and thus limit the number of additional powers Town would get.

Thoughts?

I would like to comment on this after Ranger responds to it.

Actually, you know what, screw it. I don't think it matters either way if I wait for her to respond to it. I can't imagine the response is going to reveal anything other than a pre-game post. Saying that, here is my take:

I think the only way this works is that if Ranger is actually the Mafia Traitor and she is signaling to her team to pick the JOAT role as well as alert them she is the traitor, because the 2 goons obviously don't know who the traitor is. This would allow them either to pick another PR or at the very least not have to use the recruit and give town another PR.

[karnos]

I don't see a flaw in that logic re: Ranger, Chip. In fact it seems like Ranger likes to use game mechanic proofs in her read lists, maybe she was thinking she could always fall back and claim it couldn't be signalling because mafia roles were not chosen yet. But still, I don't think Ranger is scum at this point. Probably just a coincidence.

[PantherPunt]

You gonna delete my ninja postin?

Here's a thought that I would like some comment on: Ranger as JOAT. Yes, my RVS joke again, but not joking so much this time. In fact, not joking.

This post from Ranger containing the possible codeword "ninja" appeared just six minutes after the OP. That is, when the phase 1 role-PMs were circulating, but BEFORE scum decided which extra powers they wanted and whether to recruit.

So, that kills it, right?

That's what I was thinking up until recently. But, consider this: Scum role mods are CHOSEN, while Town ones are RANDOM. That means that, even though the Mafia discussion about whether to recruit and what powers to get was still in the future when this post appeared, scum!Ranger could be virtually certain of getting JOAT simply by telling her scummate she wanted it. That means she could signal early with confidence. The timestamps turn out to be irrelevant. Why signal? Because she intended to not recruit the traitor, and thus limit the number of additional powers Town would get.

Thoughts?

I would like to comment on this after Ranger responds to it.

Actually, you know what, screw it. I don't think it matters either way if I wait for her to respond to it. I can't imagine the response is going to reveal anything other than a pre-game post. Saying that, here is my take:

I think the only way this works is that if Ranger is actually the Mafia Traitor and she is signaling to her team to pick the JOAT role as well as alert them she is the traitor, because the 2 goons obviously don't know who the traitor is. This would allow them either to pick another PR or at the very least not have to use the recruit and give town another PR.

lmao...I had this typed and then moved it into notepad bc I said I wanted to see Ranger respond to Chip. but since you already said it, I might as well share the text I cut from the end of that post now:

But consider - why would Ranger need to signal unless she was exactly the traitor? The traitor knows who the goons are at game-start, so the goons (or JOAT if your theory had any credence) wouldn't need to soft/signal to the traitor. You could say that she's the traitor and that was a signal to the goons that she is the traitor and they should pick JOAT for the ninja and save them from recruiting.

[ploben]

Ranger can still explain herself. Theory or no theory.